Sonya* Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 On 5/21/2022 at 12:26 PM, Matt said: I use this when working with self hosted clients. And what do you use with Cloud clients? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Anderson Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Sonya* said: And what do you use with Cloud clients? I can appreciate why locking down a cloud server would be appropriate for a VERY large portion of IPS's clientele but by doing so they lock out a segment of their client base that would consider choosing to purchase a cloud server subscription if they were afforded the ability to manage and troubleshoot "some" aspects of their cloud server environment such as marketplace and custom apps. Maybe IPS could open up a section of the ACP that would provide a little more access to "that" server instance, but it would require agreeing not to hold IPS accountable for any missteps. If something were to go amiss IPS would simply offer to restore the site to a prior state. I'm thinking that the additional access to be able to manage "some" aspect of one's own server would only be granted to those individuals that have shown they have a team in place that knows what they are doing, as evidenced by the client's support tickets (or lack thereof) over a course of time for new and existing customers. This might be done via the installation of a plugin. If a client manages their cloud server well the plugin remains installed, the moment they show they aren't up to the task of minimally self-managing their server a customer support person would simply uninstall the plugin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 You don't have 'a' server when running in the cloud. Our cloud platform has hundreds of instances (which doesn't even necessarily equal the number of actual physical servers) and your site is running on all of them at once. Which one actually handles a user request is decided by a load balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonya* Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Probably there is a solution of how to allow the installation of SQL toolbox and protect from mass usage at the same time? When I log in into Marketplace, I use my account and see the files that are available for my account. This is Independent of the project or domain and is tight to my user. When you create a "hidden" Marketplace category containing SQL toolbox/Adminer and give the permission only for contributors, then no "simple, normal" (you know 😉 ) user would be able to install it. The contributor can log in into Marketplace from customers' AdminCP and install it though. Then after investigating, purging, or whatever, the contributor deletes the app from the customer's installation. You can also add a big fat warning message in AdminCP with scary words that there is an app that can damage everything and the user should uninstall it immediately. Just in case, the developer forgets to delete it. 😉 This would protect the usage of the SQL toolbox or Adminer by the inexperienced user. But at the same time, allows a developer to debug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Anderson Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Rikki said: You don't have 'a' server when running in the cloud. Our cloud platform has hundreds of instances (which doesn't even necessarily equal the number of actual physical servers) and your site is running on all of them at once. Which one actually handles a user request is decided by a load balancer. Okay, cloud customers may not have their very own server, but they do have a centralized place to manage various settings and install and manage custom and third-party apps. Some additional functionality to assist in troubleshooting and fixing minor issues with custom or third-party apps would go a long way towards helping convert a subset of self-hosted customers to become cloud customers or those individuals thinking about becoming a hosting customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodle Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 No final release yet? 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Faria Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, nodle said: No final release yet? 😜 No with the weekend so close. Probably next Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodle Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Adriano Faria said: No with the weekend so close. Probably next Tuesday. What is @Lindy & @Matt throwing a big barbecue and @Jordan Miller is doing the grilling and I wasn't invited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Shhh... Jordan doesn't know he's volunteered yet. 😇 nodle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Miller Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 51 minutes ago, nodle said: What is @Lindy & @Matt throwing a big barbecue and @Jordan Miller is doing the grilling and I wasn't invited? 13 minutes ago, Mark H said: Shhh... Jordan doesn't know he's volunteered yet. 😇 Haha. Me unveiling the Alerts System: Jim M, nodle and Mark H 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Calvert Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Here I was picturing it something like: 🥰 😇 Jim M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim M Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 41 minutes ago, Randy Calvert said: Here I was picturing it something like: 🥰 😇 That would be @Mark H cooking 🤐 . Mark H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted June 3, 2022 Author Management Share Posted June 3, 2022 On 6/2/2022 at 3:57 AM, HeadStand said: As a developer, this is extremely upsetting, actually. And of course, as others mentioned in this thread, with CIC this is completely impossible. Does IPS intend to provide developers with another way to access the database for clients that are hosted in the cloud? Or are we expected to submit support tickets every time we need to do our own troubleshooting for 3rd party apps/plugins? Honestly, I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of third parties directly executing SQL queries on customer databases. If it all goes wrong, we have to dig out back-ups to fix it. This is not a slight on anyone's abilities, I've deleted an entire table of customer tickets with a mistyped query. It happens. We are not going to create a system where third parties have access to the client databases. There is no audit trail for what actions were taken. When our team need to access a cloud site, we complete a reason form which is stored to form part of an audit trail so we know exactly what was accessed and why. We also have to access via a fixed IP address VPN so there is a data trail. We take our cloud customer's security and data very seriously. The SQL toolbox should have been removed a decade ago in all honesty. As we move forward with our cloud platform, more and more SQL tables will be stored centrally and not exposed to the client in any case, meaning admins won't have access to all the data the community uses which could case a lot of confusion. (Edited later to add:) In terms of what to do with debugging, I do sympathise. I generally made prodigious use of the simple \IPS\Log::log( json_encode( $data ), 'argh_send_help' ); logger. I have also in the past used \IPS\Db::i()->select(...); in combination with \IPS\Log::log() to inspect a single row of data. Lindy, Miss_B and Dll 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 How about leaving a watered down verion of the SQL Toolbox that only allows Select statements? teraßyte and Matt 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted June 3, 2022 Author Management Share Posted June 3, 2022 34 minutes ago, Square Wheels said: How about leaving a watered down verion of the SQL Toolbox that only allows Select statements? It doesn't solve the data privacy issue and I'd rather put energy into APIs to make it easier to integrate with third party apps and code. AlexJ, Daniel F, Lindy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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