Disappointed In IPS 4

[Kirill N]

I also think the default should return by date rather than relevance.

​This.

[craigf136]

​We just truncated our search index here actually so you won't get good results on this site for a couple hours.

​The big difference with 3.4 is whatever section you are in, it changes the default search to that application. Now you need to select the application you are searching or it searches the whole suite by default.

​These are preferences.

​Preferences where? ACP or client side, I've had a look in ACP, settings, search

I see no preference settings and I can't find any. Searching "search" in ACP returns 3 results, search, search engine optimisation, search flood control.

[RevengeFNF]

​We just truncated our search index here actually so you won't get good results on this site for a couple hours.

​The big difference with 3.4 is whatever section you are in, it changes the default search to that application. Now you need to select the application you are searching or it searches the whole suite by default.

​Ok, i will try the search tomorrow, but i think it will be the same.

For me the biggest difference its not the need to select the application, its the inability to search only in titles. In 3.4 a member can also choose before the search start, the order of the results he wants. Another very important thing, we can choose if we want the results as a Topic List or as Posts.

Its my opinion, everything about the Search System seems better in 3.4.

The only thing i agree that is better in 4.0, is the ability to search in the whole system.

[TSP]

I agree, I find it better to view results as a topic list myself. Then I don't have to view results from the exact same topic numerous times, because there might be 20 matches just in a single topic. I'm also best at finding what I want by looking exclusively at the titles of a search result. That is because I often have some memory of the topic, and I'll remember it when I can see all the familiar information, like amount of pages and the title. 

And by searching for title, the result set can be narrowed down, so I don't have to look through as many results. 

[Hexsplosions]

I've not had an issue with search, it seems to work well.

What I do miss is the way the search defaults to the appropriate search parameters based on where you are. In a forum 3.4.7 defaults to 'in this forum', whereas on 4.0 it seemingly does not. That's a tad annoying since I often know which forum a topic is in and would have just browsed to that forum and searched. Now there's some extra clicks that I need to make.

[Marius]

​For me the biggest difference its not the need to select the application, its the inability to search only in titles. In 3.4 a member can also choose before the search start, the order of the results he wants. Another very important thing, we can choose if we want the results as a Topic List or as Posts.

Its my opinion, everything about the Search System seems better in 3.4.

The only thing i agree that is better in 4.0, is the ability to search in the whole system.

​+1

[MadMikeyB]

So you're not disappointed in IPS4, but disappointed in the search system.

Looks like FUD is being purposefully spread.

[TracyIsland]

The FUD acronym was first freely defined by Gene Amdahl after he left IBM to found his own company, Amdahl Corp, with this statement: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products."

[TracyIsland]

this quote thing is too confusing for me.  didn't know what FUD meant.  Now I know.  Not sure what the reference has to do with search features. 

[NoGi]

​Not sure what bridging means.  We use a member access software that allows sso to 4images and ips.  So our members just log in and don't know other than the fact that the ipboard landscape does not look a whole lot like the 4images gallery.  I have polished up the color scheme but the display is markedly different. 

​What forum? I'd love to see this in action. Was the SSO out of the box or did you have to get someone to integrate it?

[bfarber]

I agree, I find it better to view results as a topic list myself. Then I don't have to view results from the exact same topic numerous times, because there might be 20 matches just in a single topic. I'm also best at finding what I want by looking exclusively at the titles of a search result. That is because I often have some memory of the topic, and I'll remember it when I can see all the familiar information, like amount of pages and the title. 

And by searching for title, the result set can be narrowed down, so I don't have to look through as many results. 

​Would it matter how many results there are if the results you want to find are at or near the top of the list?

[bigPaws]

You can tell Google to only search page titles?

​Err yes...?, that's why I mentioned it? the commands are allintitle: to find all the words in the page title and intitle: to find some.

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=allintitle:charles+warner+invision

So even Google provide what you refer to as an 'odd feature' 

@Charles

[TSP]

​Would it matter how many results there are if the results you want to find are at or near the top of the list?

No.

But I don't think that's always feasible, no matter how good you make your search. 

For example, I might remember a certain topic about "search" and I remember that Matt posted a reply in it, but I don't feel entirely sure the post from Matt had the word "search" in it. But when I see the topic title or some other information that I remember, then I'm more likely to find it. Sometimes however I just end up going to Matt's profile and browse all his content if it's not too far off. 

With that said, most people probably use search to find posts that in some way answer the query they searched for, while I usually go out to find content I've already read. So I'm probably using it differently than what it's really made for. 

[BN_IT_Support]

I really like the fact that search in 4 returns all results irrespective of which part of the site you are viewing.  Most of my users at least are looking for any and all info on a topic and to expect them to flit between pages and articles and database records is unreasonable.

[Tanja]

Are you filtering by Images when you search? If you do, every result shows a thumbnail. It searches the title, description and album title. For example:

It doesn't show in a grid, but it shows a lot of useful information instead.

​It is very important for our community to be able to search through galleries by album title, and according to your post, that should be working, but it's not (here on this site). Is that a bug or is it something that needs to be enabled?

 

[ZakRhyno]

Yes that's possible.

​

​Yes although it'd require some template changes to the search system and some logic to show different HTML for gallery results.

​Would it not be better to show more images and not the text with images when looking only for pictures?

[RevengeFNF]

How does relevance works? How it chooses which topics to put near the top of the search result?

Im testing the Search System in my Test Board and Relevance simple do not work. It shows for example topics from 2009 or 2010 at the first possitions that do not make any relevance to me. So i need to do an extra 2 clicks every time i make a Search, to sort it by date.
This in combination with the lack of Search in Titles... I don't know what to say more...

I really hope Invision considers to change this before IPS 4.0 final is released. Search in 3.4.x is so perfect in comparison to this one.

Im also waiting for a Sphinx Tut for IPS 4.0 to check if Search become a little better.

Sorry to say this, i love Invision, but this is how i feel about the new Search System. The more i try it, the more i get disappointed about it.

 

---

I was now trying to find this topic:

The only way i found it, was searching for my activity...

I searched for the word "search" and this is the result:

Why the hell a topic "Global Search" from 2008 would be any relevance to me?
"Error on this site" from 2010? What the heck?
The topic i want it is not in the first page, and i don't want to go to the next pages... A Search In tittle would be so easy to find it...
The relevance thing do not work, simple as that.

[NinjaPP]

Sorry but IPS 4 Is not what I was expecting it to be. You can't even search images in gallery anymore like you used to. The older versions were way better than IPS 4. The search in this version also is horrible. I'm sorry but it seems like IPS didn't improve at but is a real let down. I think a lot of people would agree. I was going to recommend you but no way. Sorry for the image below its an old image I couldn't delete.

​I'm in somewhat an agreement with you on this but for other reasons, I'll try to bullet point them then elaborate if someone asks

Annoyances: Mobile & PC
New Line = New Paragraph
Doing paragraphs is god damn annoying, I made a post a while back showing the amount of space wasted just by doing this.
Yes, there is a fix where you do "shift + enter" to do a single line down, but I really don't want to need "work-arounds" to get my point across and looking like I want it to
On a mobile however it isn't even possible to do 1 line down which is a major downer for me seeing as mobiles now play a major role in site activity when people are out and about.
Being able to whip your phone out and make a quick post how you want it is awesome, but on IPS4 I can't do that, I have to come onto a PC to do it how I want
I feel as if IPS hasn't taken into account the less "forum savvy" people. Even IPB 3.4.7 allowed single lines :/

Last Post Info (Mobile)
This for me is a huge let down that IPS don't allow this feature because by not having it, I feel it will result in a decrease of members/content
Reason being I find the new way to use forums now is to "follow" everything which can be annoying
If you look at these 2 images for example you'll see how (in my eyes) vB has done this feature right:


Bad Points:
* Straight away I'm not interested. Why? Because I see 0 content.
* This means I have to click a few forums just to find something I might be interested in
* User icon doesn't even take you to the topic they posted in just their profile :/ pretty pointless really
* If I want to visit the topic that Daniel F posted in "Ask IPS" that will require 2 clicks

Good Points:
* Nice and clean
* Time/Date stamp is nice

Now let's take a look at vBulletins version:


Bad Points:
* Could be spiced up a little to look a little less cluttered

Good Points:
* I'm interested because just in this view there are potentially 3 topics I might be interested in
* Only takes me 1 click to get to the topic unlike IPS4's 2 clicks
* Shows User, Topic Title, Date & Time
* All round more user friendly and with that, more efficient


So in light of this, If I was a member on both sites I would find myself on vB more than IPS purely because it's more interesting and more efficient :/
And this is why I think IPS 4 will result in less content & members
I've loved IPS for years now and have always stood by it but in some cases it seems as if they've gone backwards

[NinjaPP]

I searched this topic exactly as it's displayed and these are the results.
The topic wasn't even on the first page and I didn't search any further

[CheersnGears]

So wait, we can't search in topic titles, but @Charles says that it should automatically weight the topic title as relevant?

That sounds like something for the bug tracker. 

[NinjaPP]

even searching "topics" specifically it shows results from 2009 :/

[Flitterkill]

I actually typed a bunch of stuff just now re: search but I've wiped it and am moving it to a bug report. This is just a mess. I'll edit this to link to the report when I'm finished.

EDIT: 

http://community.invisionpower.com/4bugtrack/rc3-ips-site-search-is-a-mess-sorry-r3606/

[RevengeFNF]

I just want to know if Invision is thinking of fixing/rebuild this whole Search System until the final release or if will need to wait another full year to get a proper Search System in 4.1.

My concerns are way higher now, because my members started to test my test board and the first impressions about the search are: "Search Sucks".
So what am i supposed to do? I already promised them that i will update to 4.0 when final is released.

But this is not the only thing... Im the Admin of my board, but the new ACP is limiting me a lot. For example, the new Question and Answer is cool, they liked it a lot. But then all the replys to a Question started to get a completely mess  because the sort it is defaulted to Rate. So i enter in ACP to change it to Date. What was my surprise? There is no option to change it to Date. Invision forces me to use Rate. Is this normal? In IPB 3.4 we can change almost anything we want, now we can't do nothing.

I like IPS4 but some things about it are just frustrating. It almost seems Windows Vista. It was good, but was release with so many Flaws that Microsoft needed to make a Windows 7 very fast.

[Flitterkill]

Some of us were talking on the alpha site about hacking the search engine or moving to Lucene (Solr or Elasticsearch). People have been talking about Invision and search for years now but no one has actually done anything about it outside of embedding Google search on their sites. I think I might take a run at this.

Mind you, we gotta be fair to IPS here. Regardless of the state of search this is an entire system-wide rewrite. We can't expect it to be as feature full as 3.4.7 (I'm more bothered by the status update widget not having the ability to reply to updates like we have now. I'm sure it will show up eventually...)

[RevengeFNF]

I understand its a full rewrite of the system. But some things are critical.

And this Search System, its not bugged, its was designed to work like this. That is the part more frustrating, knowing it was designed that way, and they still think its the best way.

For the limiting of ACP, they say its because some Admin are noobs, and so they have erased almost all options. I don't want Invision to force me something, i want to be able to change settings so the board acts like i want it to.
I want the Question and Answer to sort by Date as default, and i should be able to do it. i want the Search to sort by date by default... And so many more things...