Invision Going Downhill

[Dmacleo]

I prefer worship.

trust me, it gets old after a bit.

its a cross I have to bear though :P

[Wolfie]

trust me, it gets old after a bit.

its a cross I have to bear though :tongue:

Major Pita, I do believe you are in the Wonderful Land of Oz again.

[Dmacleo]

:P :)

I am in a world of my own for sure :P

[Woodsman]

The forum is 'company feedback' not 'company worshiping', so feedback that is good or bad is accepted. Besides, if someone reads the topic and a few of the replies, they see the overwhelming support for the company and realize two things. First, that there will always be some people who always complain but in this case a majority of people are rather pleased with the company. Second, that the company is confident enough in it's reputation to not try to hide such topics from view, as well as willing to let people voice their true feelings, which in turn reflects rather positively on the company. You show me a company where there are no topics on their forums that express a negative view about that company and I'll show you a forum that would make Hilter say, "Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn!"

Who let Charles back in here again?

Damn it Wolfie you left the door open again...

All screwing around aside.
People have a right to view their side ((complain)) yes
But if they choose to do so in a public arena as this one then they choose to accept the Wrath that is sure to go with it.

Boy its a good thing I have the temperament and calm way about me like AndyF.

Could you imagine me otherwise if I were to challenge my vocal cords with an opinion?

Worse yet make my 4 finger picken' go into overdrive....

[Wolfie]

But if they choose to do so in a public arena as this one then they choose to accept the Wrath that is sure to go with it.

Better wrath than The Wraith, although that was rather good.

[Jυra]

I sort of feel Invision is going downhill. They're still trying to hide suggestion forums, they have too many things going on with their services/products, the editor is still rubbish, and there's all this useless praise. The only thing that can rekickstart IPS again would be failure.

[Wolfie]

I sort of feel Invision is going downhill. They're still trying to hide suggestion forums

They don't have any suggestion forums. They have feedback forums, which aren't hidden, but no suggestion forums.

[Jυra]

Oh.

In that case I'll just mindlessly complain.

[Makoto]

This is independent from how well I think IPB is as forum software, but I feel a need to be kinda blunt and admit that I partially understand Jura's comments.

The atmosphere of this forum makes me feel like I'm in a workplace where everyone's trying to suck-up to the boss sometimes.

I don't say that with the intent to be rude, but it can give me a headache.

It's that, or people like the topic starter here that do mindlessly complain.

[Lindy]

I sort of feel Invision is going downhill. They're still trying to hide suggestion forums, they have too many things going on with their services/products, the editor is still rubbish, and there's all this useless praise. The only thing that can rekickstart IPS again would be failure.

That seems just a touch dramatic, Jura. ;) As noted, our feedback forums are open to customers and non-customers alike -- which is why you're still able to post here. :) Most customers are happy with the editor improvements and it will be completely overhauled in 4.0. As for "useless praise" - I'm not sure positive feedback is such a terrible thing, but if you're looking for negativity, there's plenty of sites that offer such. We also welcome negative but constructive feedback and you'll find those topics as well.

[Makoto]

Extremes on either end are annoying, that's all I was saying.

I don't know why it feels that way for me, so don't take these comments too seriously. I probably shouldn't even mention it.

However, I disagree with you regarding most customers being happy about the editor changes Lindy. The changes were chaotic to start. The way everything was rolled out seemed very messy to me and there are still a number of small bugs and flaws with the current editor. It's basically still not what I'd call a final product, but it's definitely improved since since the initial update.

I hope it will become much more polished with 4.0, but I don't think it can be denied that the updates caused widespread criticism. It wasn't an update that everyone was happy about by any means.

[Wolfie]

Extremes on either end are annoying, that's all I was saying.

I don't know why it feels that way for me, so don't take these comments too seriously. I probably shouldn't even mention it.

Understandable, and there's nothing wrong with mentioning it. After all, how else are others to have a chance to know your opinions and feelings if you don't express them?

However, I disagree with you regarding most customers being happy about the editor changes Lindy. The changes were chaotic to start. The way everything was rolled out seemed very messy to me and there are still a number of small bugs and flaws with the current editor. It's basically still not what I'd call a final product, but it's definitely improved since since the initial update.

I hope it will become much more polished with 4.0, but I don't think it can be denied that the updates caused widespread criticism. It wasn't an update that everyone was happy about by any means.

Lindy actually acknowledged that IPS goofed up with the editor (see below). The thing to remember is that no company is perfect and eventually a mistake is going to be made. To compare vB and IPB, look at how long vB4 was out compared to IPB3. IPB3 came out before vB4 and now vB5 is out and IPB is only in the early development stages (my understanding based on the blog entries). IPS developed a product and continued to build on it to polish it to what it has become, while vB released a highly broken product (vB4), did some further development of it and has now moved on to vB5 (which is also very buggy from what vB clients have said). Not trying to diss IB/vB (although it's hard not to, given the circumstances), but how things are being handled over there is a disgrace, to say the least. If IB was really concerned about its clients, they would have offered vB5 to their vB4 clients at no charge. Of course, offering crud in place of crud is still crud, but that's not the point. In comparison, IPS messing up with the editor is small beans.

I am not hiding the fact that we have somewhat dropped the ball on the editor for 3.4 and apologize for the issues and delay in resolving those issues.

[Matt]

Extremes on either end are annoying, that's all I was saying.

I think it's fairly normal human behaviour to only "put pen to paper" when one has a reaction that is outside of normal parameters.

This is the very definition of 'feedback'.

There are a lot of overtly positive topics in this forum from a lot of overtly positive people but that might just be because we're an open and honest company making software that most people enjoy? :)

[Cyrem]

and there's all this useless praise.

Incorrect on a grand scale. Praise is never ever! useless. Praise boosts morale, makes the developers work happier... and when you have happy developers you get a nice product, they work faster and you get nice people to talk to.

It works on me, I don't think other developers will be different here.

[Matt]

Personally, I don't even start work until there's new praise on the forums.

[Wolfie]

You heard the man, let's make with the brown nosing so he'll work!!!

:lol:

[Dmacleo]

Personally, I don't even work

ok, everyone else thought it and I said it :)

[Kellie]

Personally, I don't even start work until there's new praise on the forums.

In that case... I think it's time for more praising. Can the praise come from the same people or do we need to switch it up? ;)

To answer the OP, I feel very strongly that the folks an Invision strive to provide the best product and service that they can. Thus far, I feel that they have delivered a solid product and continue to innovate and move forward.

I've never experienced their hosted-service so I can't speak from experience about that.

[Rheddy]

I'm a firm supporter of IPS. While IPS has a lot of clients, I've been using the IPB forum software since version 1.3 (final) was released, back when it was still offered as a free software option with webhosting services through Fantastico. I just find these topics to be negative and they don't fall under feedback when you have a topic title like "Invision Going Downhill". Unless you have access to their sales data and other financial information, it's all just speculation and guesswork.

[connorhawke]

Forum software as a category is going down, but IPS is going up within the forum software category. Whether the latter is enough to sufficiently mitigate the effects of the former over the long run remains to be seen.

[thecore762]

I actually think IPB is going upwards, been impressed with the whole product except the editor. Back in the old days during vB 3.x and even before I thought vBulletin was the best software out there and websites like vb.org made things that much better. Things have now changed.

I've been testing XenForo for the last few weeks, while it's a nice software, it shows the lack of a lot of must have addons I need, which only IPB can offer right now besides vBulletin (which I am considering moving away from after nearly 10 years) XenForo would have been a contender vs IPB at this point if it wasn't for the lawsuit, but who knows...

Back on topic:

I've been messing around with IP Content and I feel it's very powerful and a neat software. I do like how your marketplace is setup, good job at that.

Of course I am a total noob, but checking with one of the developers for my forums it seems a real beauty to work with.

The only gray area on IPB right now truly is the pricing, but one must pay the price to get something nice.

You get what you pay for right?

[bfarber]

Thanks for the positive comments. :)

It is true in most cases in life that you get what you pay for, yes. It should be noted while you look at our prices that your initial purchase is a one-off purchase and that you will receive future updates to the software without having to repurchase it. This is in contrast to the license system of, say, vBulletin where you buy each major version. Instead, we have renewal fees for our products to access updates and technical support, however these are optional and can be stopped if you do not wish to pay the renewals.

The renewal costs get you access to technical support, new product updates (i.e. if your license is active when 4.0 is released, you can get 4.0 - no repurchasing necessary), our proprietary spam service, the free 5 user chat room, our visual skin editor, the initial starter level of our CDN service, and other future services we may elect to roll out to existing active license holders. As you say - you get what you pay for (and some would argue, that value is really quite good). :)

[Wolfie]

The renewal costs get you access to technical support, new product updates (i.e. if your license is active when 4.0 is released, you can get 4.0 - no repurchasing necessary), our proprietary spam service, the free 5 user chat room, our visual skin editor, the initial starter level of our CDN service, and other future services we may elect to roll out to existing active license holders. As you say - you get what you pay for (and some would argue, that value is really quite good). :smile:

I would argue that. Optional renewal, no penalty fees for letting it lapse, upon renewal, get latest version of the software along with support.. Not even including the additional services. Using vB 5's license arrangement, you pay $250 for the core product and lifetime updates but only get a single month of support. For that same price, I could but a new standard IPB license ($175), have six months of support, let the license lapse, renew when 4.0.4 (or so) is out ($25), get the latest version and six more months of support, then I could hold out until version 5.0.5 comes out and do it again ($25 again). Then with the remaining $25, I could go eat a steak at a nice restaurant. I dare someone to say that you can get three major versions of vB with their current license structure for the same price or better. :smile:

[Woodsman]

I just acquired my 2nd license that I have been waiting for for about the last 2 years. With a little help from Lindy the transfer was pretty painless for both parties. Cost really don't matter when you go into a decision with the knowledge that This company is here to stay, The support will be here when you need it and whether you follow the standard support program or chop it up as Wolfie reiterated time again it is up to the individual. IPS has no shotgun to anyones head.

There are always going to be pitfalls in life some small and some rather large... But with the recent jump in client-el I would have to speculate so did the sales.... Now My question to all is... When was the last time you saw an ant make a molehill out of a mountain? Considering the jump in registered clients I would say they must be doing something right....

Positive feedback is nice I agree, negative feedback can be constructive as I also agree, a pat on the back is good for moral but kick the bull in the ass and see what happens... Matt won't develop, Lindy won't Shave, Charles won't give a damn and let his hair grow out and Brandon will be left holding the bag.

[JLS]

I haven't read this whole thread but goodness... aside from my app complaint (IP having no interest in developing an app anymore) I've noticed better and better support. When I hit that client critical button... they are there. They have been there more then my hosting or any other company. Even without that button their turn-around time on expected support is just amazing.

And I have had my site shut down from my hosting company due to some idiot installing a spam farm on my accounts (not from IP). I had another recent issue as well with spam and my hosting company getting their shared server blacklisted over and over again for a month totally messing up our email accounts etc as every time we emailed someone it bounced back as our server was blacklisted. So I know the stress of it quite well. But I honestly think you're barking up the wrong tree in just a frustrating situation unfortunately :(