Why have you forgotten the "little guys" ?

[Ozbloke1]

Hi all, just a bit of a whinge I guess, i'm an average owner of a forum, been using IPB for ages now, I ain't no expert in PHP or tech stuff, but like to have a little forum so long time friends I have worldwide can keep in touch, I don't have a fast internet connection like some, so each "update" takes me at least 2 hours to upload using my FTP prog. I know I can get Invision to do it quicker, but I don't like to ask as they are usually busy when the new version comes out, and besides it's an interesting thing to do myself. Ok just a few questions (might even make this a poll)
1. what ever happened to being able to download the essential files download for updates, instead of downloading the whole forum install ?, it'd be easier on us slower connected users
2. why include all the graphic files in the download, most, if not all of them are the same as older versions, and don't have to be "updated"
3. a lot of "posh" stuff is happening with the forum, how hard is it to include a script to do a back up of the whole forum, you can do one for the SQL database, why not the forum ?, or maybe just the files that could be lost incase of a BIG "BOO BOO" ???
4. Do the people at Invision forget that not everyone has access to high speed internet ?, take pity on us little guys who try to keep up with updates, we can't upload at lightning speeds, some of us do plod along at less than ideal speeds, make the updates smaller (see question one)
5. I have mentioned this before, but I will say it here, I for one do not understand PHP or other stuff in the making of a forum, please remind the support staff to try and talk to people like me in simple and easy to understand terms, don't get too "tech", I don't have no University degree or nuthin, so some of the stuff they say is way over my head and makes me feel a tad dumb, see if they can try and find out the level of understanding of the user before going tech.

Ok thats about it, big one is the size of the updates, I understand the need for the "full" install, but try and give us the "shorter - condensed" version for ones who already have the forum installed, after all most of us are just updating, not installing, thanks

[Aiwa]

The only flaw with your logic.... If you have just an 'essentials pack' then it will be specific from version x to version y. You won't be able to make it universal. So now IPS would have to have a download pack for EVERY sub version to the latest.

[Rimi]

I'm curious as to what exactly you asked IPS for them to give a highly technical answer.

[Saiga]

You said the solution to your problems yourself. You can't complain about internet speeds when you can get Invision to do it. Aren't they there to help?

Beyond that, Aiwa hit it pretty much right on the head for me.

I'd also think it makes it easier on IPS putting together one pack to send to everyone rather than making many, but I guess that stems off of what was already said.

[Martin A.]

As Aiwa said, you would need one pack for each subversion (x.x.1, x.x.2, etc), or you would have to stay updated at all times. No chance to skip an update. A bigger argument is that many, many, many files are changed in each version. An update pack would be almost the same size as the full pack. And the version checker tool you have in the ACP would stop wouldn't work if not all files are updated, as it would report all unchanged files for that version as "out-of-date".

One other thing to mention, IPS have an "Auto-Install" feature in the Client Area. As far as I know it's an automated process that uploads the files to your server, and will probably notify you when the files are up, and you can go ahead and start the upgrade.

Doing backups trough the ACP isn't always a good idea. You are usually restricted by a memory limit, a max execution time, and other things while you're there, which will give you corrupted updated. Use your host's cPanel (or Plesk or whatever other system they have) and use the backup features in there. A full-site backup in cPanel will generate an archive file with your site's database(s) and files.

[Ozbloke1]

The update always contains gif and other image files, why include them in every pack if they are never updated, add them all together and they take up a bit of room, just a thought to maybe leave them out on minor updates ?? I'm sure years ago we had the option to just download the changed files or the full install ??

I've had problems with the auto install, it says it can't find my forum, details were correct as the support team checked and logged straight in, so I gave up on using it, also they had problems with my credit card details, seems their system wouldn't save the correct CVV number no matter how many times I or the support team deleted the incorrect one, after I got a new card when the old one expired.

"Highly" tech answers they were not, but they did use details that I was lost in understanding, I can't remember the exact wording, but as I said I am a dumb old guy and some of the stuff was way over my head, i'm an old aussie, I only finished grade 10 in high schools way back in the dark ages when dinosaurs ruled the earth, heck I even used a candle to backlight my old computer monitor (joke, really used a hamster to run the generator) so I need really dumbed down step by step answers or instructions, stuff to take into account my limited intelligence.

But needless to say, prehaps I shouldn't of said anything and just muddle along, I see that replies are from coders or designers of mods, people who have a good understanding of this stuff, i'll just keep quiet, and try and keep up with these updates that I haven't notice does anything, of course I don't use my forum to "it's full potential", guess that's my loss or fault, cheers all and thanks for the replies, perhaps someone could delete this thread, cheers

[Jinkler]

Take the easy route and get IPS to upgrade for you, it's a free service they offer, so make the most of it!

[Charles]

As Jinkler said, for those with such concerns we are happy to do the upgrade for you. It's something we offer for the "little guys" that might not be comfortable or able to do it on your own :)

[Katsuma]

I am glad to have "L" at IPS update our forums since we ocasionally have "brown outs" in our area.
A plus is, if a current file is corrupted and unknown to me, the full update will overwrite them.

[Lewis P]

As much as I don't have a problem downloading the entire package to upload it (it makes it tidier having it all the same "version" anyway - the FTP on our site is very slow when uploading a lot of files, be it from my connection, or another remote connection. I would just upload the .zip, extract it and move it over, but after a disastrous problem a few months ago with that method - I'm not planning on doing that anytime soon.

For this reason alone I'd love having update packs available, or at the very least a list of changed files for me to upload individually, but I've taken to doing folder comparisons and uploading them as necessary. I never upload anything in /public except /js for example, which makes things run a bit quicker. It's not pretty, but it works.

I understand why IPS has stopped them though.

Edit: To clarify, my upload speeds are fine. When uploading files to my dev board/server, I can get the entire process done in less than 10 minutes. It's something to do with our main server, and it's something I need to look into.

[Cyrem]

If you are running a forum you should have an understanding of how the software you are using works.

IP do full downloads because it reduces problems (or so I have read in other topics about the same thing). It assures that the forum has all the latest files.

Have you tried uploading the new version as a zip then extracting it zip? It's a lot faster then uploading every single file.

[marklcfc]

I've not been able to understand why they stopped making those easy upgrade packs for .1 releases, made things so much quicker. Instead I'm having to upload file by file, and deleting folders such as emoticons and style_images as I don't want the files to be overwritten.

[Rimi]

Admittedly I would be ok with the favicon.ico not being in the downloads. I always forget about it and overwrite mine.

[miraclesun]

And the images too :unsure: I keep overwriting the pips and the default avatar. LOL

[Rimi]

And the images too :unsure: I keep overwriting the pips and the default avatar. LOL

Isn't the default avatar in the skin set? >_>

And the pips too for that matter.

[Ozbloke1]

If you are running a forum you should have an understanding of how the software you are using works.

Why ?, I use electricity and don't understand how a nuclear reactor works, we aren't all college grads, I for one have a very basic education, have worked most of my life at labouring jobs, at present I work at a meatworks running a 5 million dollar plant that processes the by-products, I have heaps of life experience but for the life of me I don't understand coding or scripts or PHP language, that's why I pay for others to do the smart stuff, i'm happy it all works, I know how to do the settings and setup, so I guess I do know a bit about how it works, I just dread it when it all goes wrong, just my 2 cents, heck that comment I said isn't even worth that :)

[Rimi]

Why ?, I use electricity and don't understand how a nuclear reactor works, we aren't all college grads, I for one have a very basic education, have worked most of my life at labouring jobs, at present I work at a meatworks running a 5 million dollar plant that processes the by-products, I have heaps of life experience but for the life of me I don't understand coding or scripts or PHP language, that's why I pay for others to do the smart stuff, i'm happy it all works, I know how to do the settings and setup, so I guess I do know a bit about how it works, I just dread it when it all goes wrong, just my 2 cents, heck that comment I said isn't even worth that :)

Well my opinion is that if you want to customize your software then you should understand code. You pay others to do it for you so you're fine. So in your example you don't need to know how a nuclear reactor works but you also sshouldn't be trying to tweak your energy output without knowing either.

[Royzee]

Why ?, I use electricity and don't understand how a nuclear reactor works, we aren't all college grads, I for one have a very basic education, have worked most of my life at labouring jobs, at present I work at a meatworks running a 5 million dollar plant that processes the by-products, I have heaps of life experience but for the life of me I don't understand coding or scripts or PHP language, that's why I pay for others to do the smart stuff, i'm happy it all works, I know how to do the settings and setup, so I guess I do know a bit about how it works, I just dread it when it all goes wrong, just my 2 cents, heck that comment I said isn't even worth that :smile:

Your comparison would be right on for one of your forum users/members.

As the site owner it would be more appropriate to say that you work in the electricial production plant: therefore need to know something about it's production. Your members on the other hand just use the electricity. :smile:

[3DKiwi]

I for one do not understand PHP

There's no need to know PHP. I don't know it, yet I maintain my website.

One problem with not updating all files is the version numbers end up all over the place. Much easier to keep things tidy and be able to remove old obsolete files by running the version checker and then renaming the old version extension to something like delete. If your forum runs fine without them you can come back a few weeks later and delete all these obsolete files.

3DKiwi

[Misi]

and then renaming the old version extension to something like delete. If your forum runs fine without them you can come back a few weeks later and delete all these obsolete files.

I'm doing it for several years now: the system is good.

[Brett L]

I realize you have said you aren't the most tech savvy user, but If you can get on SSH you can download the files directly to your server using 2 simple commands and be up and running in about 10 seconds.
Additionally don't ever feel that we are "too busy" to respond to your ticket. Yes, we typically get a highload of tickets after new releases but we are here to help :smile:.

If you are interested in this method and need more detailed instructions I'll write something up for you :smile:.

[Ozbloke1]

Thanks for the offer, i'll stay the way I am, I didn't know about running the checker and changing the older version files and then deleting them later as mentioned earlier, I do run the checker and all other tools as often as I can and fix any errors, although I try and leave well enough alone, "if it ain't broke, why fix it" ??, a good saying and i'll think i'll stick with it, after all we all have servers with "unlimited" space these days, not like back in the good old days when we had to do clean outs to stay under the limits, cheers and thanks for all the good comments, cheers Pete.

[DChiuch]

I realize you have said you aren't the most tech savvy user, but If you can get on SSH you can download the files directly to your server using 2 simple commands and be up and running in about 10 seconds.

Additionally don't ever feel that we are "too busy" to respond to your ticket. Yes, we typically get a highload of tickets after new releases but we are here to help :smile:.

If you are interested in this method and need more detailed instructions I'll write something up for you :smile:.

I would love this, can we please have SSH instructions somewhere?

[Brett L]

I would love this, can we please have SSH instructions somewhere?

It's actually relatively simple. The picture pretty much tells you everything. Your server must have both curl and unzip installed. (It is probably possible to do without these but thats what I used).

There are really only two things that might trip you up.
1) getting your auth_key
2) entering your username & password must be url encoded.

To get your auth key just open ssh and type

curl www.invisionpower.com

Search the html that is returned and find your secure_hash. (Secure hash is the same thing as an auth key) Once you have that you can simply login using your username and password.

curl -c cookies.txt -d "ips_username=testing%40test.com&ips_password=Testing%21%40%23%24%25%5E%26*&auth_key=880ea6a14ea49e863734fbdc5015a024" "https://www.invisionpower.com/clients/index.php?app=core&module=global&section=login&do=process"

In that example my username/password is testing@test.com Testing!@#%^&* Notice how all special chars are url encoded. If this confuses you it might be best to temporarily take them out of your password then remember that the @ sign in your email is replaced by %40. Once you run that last command you are now logged in and your cookie is stored in a file named cookies.txt Next all you need to do is grab the URL to the file you want to download in the client area. Then run

curl -b cookies.txt -0 "http://www.invisionpower.com/clients/index.php?app=downloads&module=display&section=download&do=do_download&id=22" > ipb.zip

replace the url with the url you want to download and "ipb.zip" with what you want the zip file to be named. It will download the file into the directory you are currently in in ssh. You can unzip it with

 unzip ipb.zip 

[Sire]

Looks good Brett, will that work without replacing or overwriting anything important like uploads folder, etc?

That first step should be community.invisionpower.com, I didn't see a secure_hash on www.invisionpower.com.
I ran this: curl community.invisionpower.com | grep secure_hash