bfarber Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 In investigating methods of remote communication we felt that several quick HTTP requests was better than prolonged/persistent style connections. If we want, for example, a server to service 3000 users, if the requests were normal and the connection closed immediately once the script stopped, you could have maybe 1000 requests in the stack at a time, where-as with a persistent style technology you'd have all 3000 (or close to it). This is why we went with normal AJAX-style "get me data and exit" requests. We may or may not investigate and benchmark technologies such as comet in the future. We didn't feel it was the best option for our needs, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biollante Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The chat doesn't work in Opera 10. Gets stuck on "Please wait while we load the chatroom..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete T Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I must say i like chat room idea very good add on but for people like myself that own server would be nice be able have installed on my own server and this will be only reason why it going be no, the idea have script installed on another server is pointless unless you ask for it eg if like many people have sharded hosting or on resellers account then yes the idea would be great, i can't see why limit to just one place but that my 2p worth to idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RObiN-HoOD Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 You should be able to make chat rooms for rent, create custom moderators for specific time ie. from 19:00 - 20:00, be able to restrict number of participants, send PMs as Chat events requests and generally be able to monetize it. I am thinking of renting specific chat rooms for promotional reasons. I would very much like to see this being possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous IPB User Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 [quote name='Sonya*' date='22 October 2009 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1256279531' post='1870397'] I am interested in IP.Chat for the community hosted on my own server. Is this solution only for hosted Communities? Can you tell, what is the timeline for the first release? Great questions, and I am in the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 [quote name='Sonya*' date='23 October 2009 - 06:32 AM' timestamp='1256279531' post='1870397'] I am interested in IP.Chat for the community hosted on my own server. Is this solution only for hosted Communities? Can you tell, what is the timeline for the first release? IP.Chat will be available for all customers, in fact, active current license holders will receive a free chat room. Even though it's hosted on our servers, it's not limited to those hosted with us - much like the spam monitoring service. As for availability, it's difficult to say. We've been using this beta to gauge some of the technical things on our end (how many servers we'll need at launch and so on) which should give you an idea of where we are in the development cycle. An announcement will be posted once we have a decided release date :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chabbs Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I see that there are people who are interested in having the chat hosted on their own server. I'd like to place my name in that hat too. My site is on a dedicated server and could probably handle the load. If not, I'd upgrade to something that can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Barrie Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hmm. Doesn't appear to work "You do not have access to this chat room". I'm guessing someone tested ban. How droll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='23 October 2009 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1256308641' post='1870499'] In investigating methods of remote communication we felt that several quick HTTP requests was better than prolonged/persistent style connections. If we want, for example, a server to service 3000 users, if the requests were normal and the connection closed immediately once the script stopped, you could have maybe 1000 requests in the stack at a time, where-as with a persistent style technology you'd have all 3000 (or close to it). This is why we went with normal AJAX-style "get me data and exit" requests. We may or may not investigate and benchmark technologies such as comet in the future. We didn't feel it was the best option for our needs, however. The issue with polling I believe is not only server related but client related as well. You only get the message of the other participants on the next poll whereas with the persistent method you get messages in a more natural rate. Also not only are you opening/closing new http requests, but you're doing the same with MySQL. I'm not entirely sure exactly how a comet would work with PHP (or if PHP is even appropriate) but you could, in theory, have one session controller per chat room with a single database connection sending messages to all the persistent client connections. If this could be accomplished, I would say it's a lot better to do this than have thousands of users opening and closing http and database connections running a query per request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reitaksvk Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 it would be nice to use this chat in our licenced board and test it. you know not much peoples go to this chat +- 20, in our board are +-100 peoples on shoutbox, maybe this would be better to test in our boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXHosting Ltd. Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 So we cannot host this ourselves no matter what? Can't say I'm keen on that idea. Instead we'd have to rely on IPS servers/connectivity and bandwidth to be stable enough between IPS and for example Iceland, let alone for privacy issues. For those with own high-end servers I hope you see the chance of explaining what this "special tuning" thing is so we can do this ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandango Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='Reitaksvk' date='30 October 2009 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1256887194' post='1873326'] it would be nice to use this chat in our licenced board and test it. you know not much peoples go to this chat +- 20, in our board are +-100 peoples on shoutbox, maybe this would be better to test in our boards. [quote name='emm1' date='30 October 2009 - 07:28 PM' timestamp='1256891311' post='1873331'] So we cannot host this ourselves no matter what? Can't say I'm keen on that idea. Instead we'd have to rely on IPS servers/connectivity and bandwidth to be stable enough between IPS and for example Iceland. For those with own high-end servers I hope you see the chance of explaining what this "special tuning" thing is so we can do this ourselves. IP Chat is hosted entirely on IPS servers, they are currently testing on their site to see what specs they will required for the servers and to improve the software. Basically you won't need to test it on your site as it all runs through IPS Servers not using your server, so you server should be fine. I'm IPS will have excellent and stable servers before they offer the product to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXHosting Ltd. Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I just want to know when this software is ready (final), if we can host it ourselves? I have no interest in letting IPS host anything for me since I have my own powerful serverfarm hosted on a dual gigabit connection. :) If not, then I guess I'll just stick with my IRC server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandango Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='emm1' date='30 October 2009 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1256892020' post='1873336'] I just want to know when this software is ready (final), if we can host it ourselves? I have no interest in letting IPS host anything for me since I have my own powerful serverfarm hosted on a dual gigabit connection. :) If not, then I guess I'll just stick with my IRC server. Currently there is no ETA on it, unforuently IPS currently only has plans (that we have been told of) to be only hosted on their servers. But it would intergrate easily into your forum, i think (correct me if i'm wrong) you upload Chat like an app to your forums and then enter the chat key (like the spam service) into it then it works! All the talking/messages in handled by their server. So you can still customise the theme etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXHosting Ltd. Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I know it integrates easily into my forum, thats not my concern. My concern is that all talking/messages going through their server/service. Not that I have anything to hide, but some people do actually care about their privacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='Luke' date='30 October 2009 - 01:50 AM' timestamp='1256881843' post='1873307'] The issue with polling I believe is not only server related but client related as well. You only get the message of the other participants on the next poll whereas with the persistent method you get messages in a more natural rate. Also not only are you opening/closing new http requests, but you're doing the same with MySQL. I'm not entirely sure exactly how a comet would work with PHP (or if PHP is even appropriate) but you could, in theory, have one session controller per chat room with a single database connection sending messages to all the persistent client connections. If this could be accomplished, I would say it's a lot better to do this than have thousands of users opening and closing http and database connections running a query per request. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_%28programming%29 I don't see any real workable solution myself. The only cross-browser solution presently available is AJAX long-polling, and that wouldn't be any better than what we are doing now (in fact, I suspect it would be worse, in that the tcp/ip stack would fill up much quicker). [quote name='Reitaksvk' date='30 October 2009 - 03:19 AM' timestamp='1256887194' post='1873326'] it would be nice to use this chat in our licenced board and test it. you know not much peoples go to this chat +- 20, in our board are +-100 peoples on shoutbox, maybe this would be better to test in our boards. It's simply not available for outside testing yet. There's a lot to do I'm afraid. For now, we've opted to put the beta on our site so we can gather feedback to make sure we take this in the right direction. [quote name='emm1' date='30 October 2009 - 04:40 AM' timestamp='1256892020' post='1873336'] I just want to know when this software is ready (final), if we can host it ourselves? I have no interest in letting IPS host anything for me since I have my own powerful serverfarm hosted on a dual gigabit connection. :) If not, then I guess I'll just stick with my IRC server. At this time, we are working on the project as a hosted solution only. At some point in the future, we MAY explore building an enterprise edition that is installable on your host, but we do not have immediate plans to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nes718 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 LOL! That's one word I fear the most since I work in IT and every time we need to buy "turn-key" or "enterprise" the prices are usually waaay over priced. As for the different methods of chat server software, I have installed and tested: 1. php sockets 2. java sockets 3. Ajax, http, MySQL 4. Flash Media server Out of all the methods the best one if Flash Media Server (or Red5) connected to a flash client. Set at "rtmpt" you'll get socket like performance on port 80 without the http over head. PHP sockets and Java sockets suck big time. They all rely on ports other than http port 80 and are prone to bugs and configuration problems. My second choice would be the AJAX, http, MySQL combo. It's fast and while it does put somewhat of a strain on your web server and database server, these two if configured properly can handle the load, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT :lol: . This method is NOT recommended on shared hosts as it will eat up bandwidth and CPU and will eventually get you kicked off of that server depending on the hosters policies. Those of you with dedicated servers, if you want to see if you can host a chat room I suggest you download and install Darren’s $5 FlashChat and play with it. Load it up with users and when you've reached about 30, you'll know if your machine can handle the load. Heck, it will even teach you how to properly configure your machine for optimal performance when you see your box choking up and you figure out how to relieve the stress. Now, most of us with higher end servers can definitely host our own chat rooms. It's unfortunate that IP doesn't have immediate plans to offer a self hosted chat solution in light of the fact that there are so many other options on the market right now. My favorite at the moment is "flashcoms". It's not free but there are no recurring fees if you have the media servers running on your box. And those of us who have sites with many users will need the performance that a true socket server option provides. The Ajax/http option will only get you to about 30 users before your box becomes unresponsive if your machine isn't capable of handling the load or is not properly configured. [quote name='bfarber' date='30 October 2009 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1256913394' post='1873452'] we MAY explore building an enterprise edition that is installable on your host, but we do not have immediate plans to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Barrie Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 [quote name='Nestor Delgado' date='01 November 2009 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1257063268' post='1874185'] LOL! That's one word I fear the most since I work in IT and every time we need to buy "turn-key" or "enterprise" the prices are usually waaay over priced. Really? We tend to find that "enterprise" means "buggy, unsupported bloatware that has a 50/50 chance of working, and should not be used for mission critical operations". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambar Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 when can we get it ... I just need a good chat after upgrading to 3.0 I can wait for what ever to be worked out,,,, just want chat lol (stomping feet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawPi Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 It isn't available for now yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klisis Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I also operate a dedicated server. Having tried various chat scripts over the years, I wouldn't host my own chat script on my server for both security issues and load issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrahChris Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I like the idea of hosted chat. Just one less thing for me to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='30 October 2009 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1256913394' post='1873452']http://en.wikipedia....8programming%29 I don't see any real workable solution myself. The only cross-browser solution presently available is AJAX long-polling, and that wouldn't be any better than what we are doing now (in fact, I suspect it would be worse, in that the tcp/ip stack would fill up much quicker). It's simply not available for outside testing yet. There's a lot to do I'm afraid. For now, we've opted to put the beta on our site so we can gather feedback to make sure we take this in the right direction. At this time, we are working on the project as a hosted solution only. At some point in the future, we MAY explore building an enterprise edition that is installable on your host, but we do not have immediate plans to do so. There's also the security issue with AJAX as well. You cannot perform an AJAX request from one domain to another on most browsers. As mentioned in the wiki article, the best method would be script tag long polling. The server end may be better served by a server side application designed for the task (something other than PHP - although a persistent connection to MySQL might help). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariAge Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 [quote name='chabbs' date='26 October 2009 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1256599094' post='1871934'] I see that there are people who are interested in having the chat hosted on their own server. I'd like to place my name in that hat too. My site is on a dedicated server and could probably handle the load. If not, I'd upgrade to something that can. Same here, I have a dedicated server at the moment and my plans are to use two servers for my site not long down the road. I'd much rather use my own server for this than have to rely on a third-party server. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poomv2 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 How about having some sort of dock at the edge of the page, so you can expand the chatroom over the page. You can browse the forum while the chat window is still open or you can dock it again. I don't know if any of you use Firebug with Mozilla Firefox, but something along those sort of lines. Means it doesn't take the members completely away from the forum. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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