Time to abandon emoticons, embrace emoji!!!

KT Walrus · April 10, 2017

I think it is time to deprecate IPS4 Emoticons in favor of industry standard Unicode 9 Emoji within IPS4.

This is a small change, but much nicer for users. Standard Unicode characters for Emoji are more diverse than Emoticons as there are Emoji for Symbols, Flags and many many other iconic characters that can enhance reading boring text.

IPS4 Emoticons simply date our sites as last decade... Time to move on...

? or

nodle · April 10, 2017

I agree. I thought about making a thread like this. I like they should really use some like Emojione or similar. I see Xenforo 2 also went with new ones. Not to be mean but it makes me not want to use the built in similes currently in IPB4.They just feel so outdated and don't blend in with the rest of the software. It would be a good time to go with a modern standard with the upcoming 4.2.

opentype · April 10, 2017

KT Walrus · April 10, 2017

I'm not convinced that IPS4 has to provide its own Emoji sets, only replace the Emoticons editor plugin with one that pops up the current Emoji Picker that the browser/OS provides on the user's device. As a Mac user, I know that Apple has hidden the Emoji Picker in the Edit menu or a quick key combo (ctl-⌘-Space) so it would be nice if the Editor plugin simply popped up the Apple Emoji Picker. On iPhone/iPad, there isn't even a need for an IPS4 Editor menu since the keyboard has a key for using the Emoji popup. However, it would still be good to have an IPS4 editor menu icon to encourage users to insert Emoji (or other symbols) into their posts. Not sure how Microsoft/Google do it for their platforms, but you might be able to build the Emoji editor dropdown in a way that presents the sets/emoji in a way consistent with the current platform being used by the user (even just popping up the platform's emoji picker).

? Smileys & People

c? Animals & Nature

? Food & Drink

⚽️ Activity

? Travel & Places

⌚️ Objects

❤️ Symbols

?️ Flags

® Letterlike Symbols

☾ Pictographs

★ Bullets/Stars

⌘ Technical Symbols

♻︎ Sign/Standard Symbols

BTW: This site doesn't have a decrease indent menu item in the editor so I can't reset the margin back from being indented.

So, all further text is indented whether I like it or not.

Simon Woods · April 10, 2017

? Smileys & People

c? Animals & Nature

? Food & Drink

⚽️ Activity

? Travel & Places

⌚️ Objects

❤️ Symbols

?️ Flags

® Letterlike Symbols

☾ Pictographs

★ Bullets/Stars

⌘ Technical Symbols

♻︎ Sign/Standard Symbols

BTW: This site doesn't have a decrease indent menu item in the editor so I can't reset the margin back from being indented.

So, all further text is indented whether I like it or not.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

sobrenome · April 10, 2017

Yes! It's time! ☺

Ryan Ashbrook · April 11, 2017

Speaking as a user - I don't think it's really feasible to get rid of Emoticons entirely. For instance, there is no Emoji replacement for my personal favorite:

I definitely agree, though - we can place more emphasis on Emoji once we are able to officially require MySQL 5.5.3 as the minimum version (currently, it's 5.1 - at least 5.5.3 is required to use full unicode in MySQL).

KT Walrus · April 11, 2017

I just purchased this plugin:

It does a pretty good job of treating Emoji within the IPS4 Emoticons framework, but it does have a few issues:

It adds Emoji Descriptions to the Editor dropdown, but these text strings aren't localized (they are hard-coded in the plugin).
It allows for either inserting the EmojiOne PNG files (fixed at the 20x20 pixels) as HTML images or inserting the UTF-8 character for the Emoji selected. Treating Emoji as either an image or a character has a few issues. Mainly, if the Emoji is an image, it does not resize in the editor using the text Size dropdown, but if you treat it as a character, the user, in the editor, can resize, but that size has no effect when the character is later parsed and an image replaces the character in the HTML.
The inserted HTML in parsed text doesn't seem to attach the Emoji Descriptions to any Emoji in the post text. It would be friendlier if the Emoji Descriptions were available to the reader just like they were to the poster.

So, I'm thinking that IPS4 should add support for Emoji as a completely different feature than Emoticons rather than try to "evolve" Emoticons into supporting Emoji.

My proposal is to implement a completely new editor plugin for Emoji and make this the default in IPS4. The Emoticons editor plugin would stay the same and the ACP would allow enabling Emoticons as a deprecated feature. The Emoji editor plugin would build a dropdown that looks exactly like the Emoticons one, but it only supports inserting UTF-8 characters and the lang bits refer to these as Emoji rather than Emoticons.

Next, the parser should be changed to add support for adding tooltips/anchor titles around any UTF-8 characters in the text that correspond to known Emoji codes with the standard Emoji descriptions.

That's it. A new Emoji editor plugin and a text parser enhancement... and deprecate support for Emoticons by disabling them by default in the ACP with an option to enable them with the understanding that a future version of IPS4 will probably remove Emoticon support from the suite.

KT Walrus · April 11, 2017

9 minutes ago, Ryan Ashbrook said:

Speaking as a user - I don't think it's really feasible to get rid of Emoticons entirely. For instance, there is no Emoji replacement for my personal favorite:

I definitely agree, though - we can place more emphasis on Emoji once we are able to officially require MySQL 5.5.3 as the minimum version (currently, it's 5.1 - at least 5.5.3 is required to use full unicode in MySQL).

@Ryan Ashbrook, as I just posted, I think you should deprecate but not remove Emoticon support and simply add Emoji support as a separate feature completely. The Emoji support wouldn't try to replace Emoji characters with images and simply live with any confusion this causes when the viewers use a different device than the poster used and the Emoji displays differently depending on what browser/OS the users are using.

sobrenome · April 11, 2017

10 hours ago, KT Walrus said:

? or

How to resize emoji?

opentype · April 11, 2017

55 minutes ago, sobrenome said:

How to resize emoji?

??‍♂️

It’s just text. Change the text size and you change the emoji size.

Maxxius · April 11, 2017

Dropiing existing emoticons would suck. They are still very nice and pretty. Those new emojis - they feel lifeless to me.

The Old Man · April 11, 2017

My members and I still love animated emoticons, they also like making emoticon requests for small images relevant to my community's main topic and whilst I appreciate the convenience and style of emoji, I and I'm sure they would not like to see emoticons degraded or removed. There is still a place for them on many forum communities. They are well used in my Chatbox too.

I converted to utf8MB4 to allow emoji. Whilst emoji are easy and quick to use on mobile devices, the majority of my members still use a PC to post on my community, which makes using emoji a pain in the family jewels when using a Windows keyboard because you have to go to other websites and copy and paste emoji back into IPS. I honestly don't think the majority can be bothered from what I've seen so far unless they are using their phones or tablets.

Plus emoji often look a lot different than others when viewed from different manufacturers' devices, unlike emoticons so there is less consistency and no specific default appearance, not that that's a deal breaker.

I wish IPS, having given us the emoticon category manager that we waited years for, would improve it further by adding category show/hide toggles in AdminCP to make the categories easier to reorder when using many of them, and perhaps an ability to turn categories on and off according to defined AdminCP schedule, so you could automate seasonal switch on of their availability say with Halloween or Christmas themed emoticons in the run up to those events, and then they are automatically hidden from view by members when posting until next year (but still displayed in posts/comments). Have been asking politely for these 2 things for a long time!

Simon Woods · April 11, 2017

Having a way to more easily use emoji on non-mobile? Sure, yes, more options for this kind of thing is a good idea.

Replacing emoticons with emoji somehow? No, bad idea. Right now emoji are an endless, growing collection of confusion; you can talk about industry standards all you want but most people who use emoji don't and won't understand, instead just caring that the thing they chose doesn't look the same everywhere, including community owners.

Maybe in the future this will be a more manageable scenario, with gains large enough to justify the distracting headaches. But not right now.

KT Walrus · April 11, 2017

2 hours ago, The Old Man said:

My members and I still love animated emoticons

As the OP, I have changed my mind on this issue. I should have simply called for embracing Emoji as a new feature separate from the Emoticon feature. The admin should be able to enable/disable Emoji or Emoticons independently of each other.

Emoji support seems simple to me. Simply an Emoji editor picker and the text parser update to add tooltips showing the Emoji Descriptions for all parsed Emoji...

2 hours ago, The Old Man said:

Plus emoji often look a lot different than others when viewed from different manufacturers' devices, unlike emoticons so there is less consistency and no specific default appearance, not that that's a deal breaker.

This is not a deal breaker for me either. But, if it was, IPS devs could add an ACP settings to have the text parser change Emoji from characters to images in the parsed HTML. My problem with this is that viewing Emoji as text means that Emoji are sized like any character in a font while viewing as an image means Emoji are sized like any graphic. Maybe there is some CSS or jQuery trick that can cause an image to be sized like the current font-size...

15 minutes ago, Simon Woods said:

Right now emoji are an endless, growing collection of confusion; you can talk about industry standards all you want but most people who use emoji don't and won't understand, instead just caring that the thing they chose doesn't look the same everywhere, including community owners.

This problem is up to the OS vendors to solve and, for at least a year now, it has been mostly solved by having Unicode standardize Emoji and OS vendors updating their Unicode fonts to comply with the standard. The Unicode standard does not standardize on the exact look of the Emoji only on what description the Emoji character must convey to the user. That is why I think having the text parser add the Emoji Description as a tooltip is second requirement for Emoji support in IPS4.

Simon Woods · April 11, 2017

1 hour ago, KT Walrus said:

This problem is up to the OS vendors to solve and, for at least a year now, it has been mostly solved by having Unicode standardize Emoji and OS vendors updating their Unicode fonts to comply with the standard. The Unicode standard does not standardize on the exact look of the Emoji only on what description the Emoji character must convey to the user. That is why I think having the text parser add the Emoji Description as a tooltip is second requirement for Emoji support in IPS4.

As long as we're not talking about replacing, which you have said, then I agree on this.

CheersnGears · April 11, 2017

I'd want to keep my emoticons... we have some that go back 10+ years and are used frequently... we also have a number that are custom to our site.

Nebthtet · April 11, 2017

I'd love to have emoji along with emoticons - as it was stated before - to be turned on/off at admins' discretion. That way we'd be able to keep our beloved community-related emotes AND have plethora of emojis to express other stuff.

RevengeFNF · April 11, 2017

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TDBF · April 14, 2017

On 11/04/2017 at 2:26 AM, KT Walrus said:

I just purchased this plugin:

It does a pretty good job of treating Emoji within the IPS4 Emoticons framework, but it does have a few issues:

It adds Emoji Descriptions to the Editor dropdown, but these text strings aren't localized (they are hard-coded in the plugin).

It allows for either inserting the EmojiOne PNG files (fixed at the 20x20 pixels) as HTML images or inserting the UTF-8 character for the Emoji selected. Treating Emoji as either an image or a character has a few issues. Mainly, if the Emoji is an image, it does not resize in the editor using the text Size dropdown, but if you treat it as a character, the user, in the editor, can resize, but that size has no effect when the character is later parsed and an image replaces the character in the HTML.

The inserted HTML in parsed text doesn't seem to attach the Emoji Descriptions to any Emoji in the post text. It would be friendlier if the Emoji Descriptions were available to the reader just like they were to the poster.

So, I'm thinking that IPS4 should add support for Emoji as a completely different feature than Emoticons rather than try to "evolve" Emoticons into supporting Emoji.

My proposal is to implement a completely new editor plugin for Emoji and make this the default in IPS4. The Emoticons editor plugin would stay the same and the ACP would allow enabling Emoticons as a deprecated feature. The Emoji editor plugin would build a dropdown that looks exactly like the Emoticons one, but it only supports inserting UTF-8 characters and the lang bits refer to these as Emoji rather than Emoticons.

Next, the parser should be changed to add support for adding tooltips/anchor titles around any UTF-8 characters in the text that correspond to known Emoji codes with the standard Emoji descriptions.

That's it. A new Emoji editor plugin and a text parser enhancement... and deprecate support for Emoticons by disabling them by default in the ACP with an option to enable them with the understanding that a future version of IPS4 will probably remove Emoticon support from the suite.

The problem with this plug-in is the lack of caching and the amount of time it takes to fully load. Our members complained that it took up to two minutes and we had to remove it. We were going to report this to the developer but noticed in the reviews section that people tried to contact the developer without success but he is quick willing to take his $10 though.

Boris_ · April 14, 2017

1 hour ago, TDBF said:

The problem with this plug-in is the lack of caching and the amount of time it takes to fully load. Our members complained that it took up to two minutes and we had to remove it. We were going to report this to the developer but noticed in the reviews section that people tried to contact the developer without success but he is quick willing to take his $10 though.

? Yes, I was far too busy swimming Scrooge McDuck style in my pool of $10 bills to reply to anyone who messaged me.

Had you contacted me, I would of course have been willing to help you with that issue. I would have told you how using native browser style rather than EmojiOne will load much faster. I would have offered, as I have done for other people, to make a custom build for you with certain categories removed for faster loading. I also would have been willing, if none of that was acceptable, to refund your precious $10.

Maybe next time give that a try ?

By the way, I make mods for fun, and to make features I think are cool. If someone pays me to make a mod specifically for them, I do keep that, but for everything sold on the marketplace, I give the money to a local charity which runs programming classes for kids in the city I live in. So yeah... screw you, buddy.

TDBF · April 14, 2017

8 hours ago, Boris_ said:

? Yes, I was far too busy swimming Scrooge McDuck style in my pool of $10 bills to reply to anyone who messaged me.

Had you contacted me, I would of course have been willing to help you with that issue. I would have told you how using native browser style rather than EmojiOne will load much faster. I would have offered, as I have done for other people, to make a custom build for you with certain categories removed for faster loading. I also would have been willing, if none of that was acceptable, to refund your precious $10.

Maybe next time give that a try ?

By the way, I make mods for fun, and to make features I think are cool. If someone pays me to make a mod specifically for them, I do keep that, but for everything sold on the marketplace, I give the money to a local charity which runs programming classes for kids in the city I live in. So yeah... screw you, buddy.

I have already sent you a private message over this matter, but you do deserve a public apology over this matter.

I am sorry regarding my remarks that I made without first actually checking for myself and just presuming from a few comments in the reviews section. I should have contact you myself and been informed from first hand experience.

I apologise for doubting your sincerity or your character on here. My bad.

aia · September 5, 2017

On 11.04.2017 at 4:18 AM, Ryan Ashbrook said:

Speaking as a user - I don't think it's really feasible to get rid of Emoticons entirely. For instance, there is no Emoji replacement for my personal favorite:

I definitely agree, though - we can place more emphasis on Emoji once we are able to officially require MySQL 5.5.3 as the minimum version (currently, it's 5.1 - at least 5.5.3 is required to use full unicode in MySQL).

When it will happen? Why not implement it before and just check if there is an supported MySQL version then allow to use this functionality?

CP · September 5, 2017

I am not an emoji fan so I think I will keep all our classic emotions that I have searched long and hard to find over many many years. To me, and others on my site, they look childish. For me, and my members, we do not care much for emoji's. We prefer classic more mature looking things rather then the new stuff that seems to be offered these days.

Li3D · March 14, 2018

Hi, anyone tried this https://ckeditor.com/cke4/addon/emojione ?

Invision Community 4: SEO, prepare for v5 and dormant account notifications

Invision Community 5: Beta testing and latest updates

Invision Community 4: A more professional report center

Invision Community 5: A video walkthrough creating a custom theme and homepage

Time to abandon emoticons, embrace emoji!!!

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