Bring back the 3.1 standard editor as an option

[AndyF]

I'd noticed the &#39 issue when putting ' into code tags, although figured it was just testing / adjustments here as you said. :)

[ADKGamers]

No... was home-brewed IPS.

I definitely liked that editor much more than this one. It's quite frustrating to say the least.

[Matt]

What frustrates you? I'd like to know. If we're going to improve the editor, then the more information you provide, the better.

[marklcfc]

You can't even right click and paste for a start, unless your mouse is in the exact position.

[Heyhoe]

It's all well and good saying "We know how to use BBCode as we have used it on forum software for years"

But what about new users? I'm currently attracting a lot of forum virgins, and the new editor makes it much more simple for them. I agree that the ability to switch a board to the 3.1 standard non RTE editior would be useful for some communities. But i certainly think the current route IPS is taking is the correct one.

And Marcher Technologies, ease off the uppercase shouting man! :)

[Aisha]

What frustrates you? I'd like to know. If we're going to improve the editor, then the more information you provide, the better.

I think people have been saying for weeks now how they don't like clicking the light switch and then losing all the bbcode buttons...

[insectdude]

It's all well and good saying "We know how to use BBCode as we have used it on forum software for years"

But what about new users? I'm currently attracting a lot of forum virgins, and the new editor makes it much more simple for them. I agree that the ability to switch a board to the 3.1 standard non RTE editior would be useful for some communities. But i certainly think the current route IPS is taking is the correct one.

I completely accept that some sites will have a userbase for whom an RTE editor is preferable or even essential. There were problems with the previous RTE editor and so IPS was of course right to look for a solution.

However at the same time there are plenty of sites with users who are experienced in the use of forum software and who simply find an RTE frustrating.

I am not suggesting CKEditor be ditched entirely, nor that IPS try to simultaneously maintain two different rich text editors. I am just asking for the fully-featured 3.1 standard editor to be restored as an option so that those who want to use it can do so. Since that editor is essentially just a textarea with some simple script to handle the insertion of bbcodes, I doubt there would be much ongoing effort required to keep it compatible with evolving browser standards (one of the main reasons given for moving to a third-party editor).

[ADKGamers]

What frustrates you? I'd like to know. If we're going to improve the editor, then the more information you provide, the better.

Thanks for the response. The issue is, when I create an article and then I go to "preview" the article, all of the spaces that I had in between paragraphs go away and everything becomes one big paragraph. It's mainly when submitting articles for IPC that it frustrates me since I wanted to use the new editor and not have to do a lot of HTML usage for most of my articles. But it seems that I need to in order to prevent the issue from occuring. I haven't had these preview issues in the forums, but I always post long articles via IPC rather than in the forums.

So if the issue I am coming across with the IPC is something that I need to change then I don't really have much of an issue since that was my biggest thing with it and I do appreciate the changes that have been done to IPB. And if it's better for the community the way it is then I can make due with it. :)


Thanks again for responding

[connorhawke]

The more I use the CKEditor, the more I tend to agree that IPS's previous editor was probably better in a "refined, bug-free, usable" sort of way. ;)

[connorhawke]

Some bugs/issues in the CKEditor on IPB 3.2.1 and 3.2.2. I'm using Chrome, a fairly popular web browser.

Bugs
- Various code disappears when transferring between the two modes or when initiating an edit in Rich Text mode. e.g. HTML line break tags, among others.
- Various code is added when transferring between the two modes or when initiating an edit in either mode. e.g. extra spaces, or via conversion of emoticon BBCode into an HTML image statement.
- Clicking on a button that is supposed to open a prompt (e.g. Image or URL prompt) sometimes lights up the window but fails to load the prompt.
- Some prompts (e.g. Code prompt) attach themselves to the top of the window and can't be moved vertically.
- Clicking on the resizer jumps the page up, making it an arduous ordeal to actually resize the editor.
- Sometimes the editor drops outside of the table it is contained within (I've seen this happen on the default IP.Board skin).
- Sometimes, attempting to initiate editing or save an edit using the CKEditor does not work.
- Occasionally, after loading a page with a CKEditor, the text area itself appears but no buttons appear, nor apparently the ability to use the text area, and it is virtually unusable as an editor.
- Occasionally the entire CKEditor itself completely fails to appear despite the rest of the page loading.
- AutoSave doesn't seem to do its job, based on my experiences.

Issues
- BBCode buttons don't appear in the Plain Text mode. That's just silly!
- Can't upload images directly using the Image prompt; need to upload an attachment first. WTF!
- Can't specify URL display text in the URL prompt; need to do it manually. LOL!
- The Copy function appears to be currently disabled.
- Some buttons don't bring up prompts like their similar neighbors do. e.g. Quote vs. Code.

If anyone sees anything here that isn't in the Tracker, feel free to report it.

[rgf100]

What frustrates you? I'd like to know. If we're going to improve the editor, then the more information you provide, the better.

Welcome back from Mars. While you've been away, a number of us have mentioned that we'd like the buttons on 'simple mode' to work, and are in fact sodding mystified as to why you released a version where they didn't.

[bfarber]

Some bugs/issues in the CKEditor on IPB 3.2.1 and 3.2.2. I'm using Chrome, a fairly popular web browser.

Bugs

...snip...

You should be reporting all bugs to the bug tracker with full details on how to reproduce. We have been going through the bug tracker and resolving all editor issues. If it's not reported, how could we be expected to know about issue x and ensure it is fixed?

Issues

- BBCode buttons don't appear in the Plain Text mode. That's just silly!

Been mentioned, yes.

- Can't upload images directly using the Image prompt; need to upload an attachment first. WTF!

This didn't happen even with our old editor. I don't expect this would be changed in the near future - the attachments system is a special component unto itself, and isn't as easy as just slapping in anywhere. The image button is meant for linking images, not uploading them.

- Can't specify URL display text in the URL prompt; need to do it manually. LOL!

This is a ckeditor limitation, but I agree it is annoying.

- The Copy function appears to be currently disabled.

This is an issue with Firefox (it's fine in webkit browsers). IIRC, we reported this to ckeditor.

- Some buttons don't bring up prompts like their similar neighbors do. e.g. Quote vs. Code.

Have never seen anyone bring this up. Curious if anyone else wants to see this change.

[connorhawke]

You should be reporting all bugs to the bug tracker with full details on how to reproduce. We have been going through the bug tracker and resolving all editor issues. If it's not reported, how could we be expected to know about issue x and ensure it is fixed?

Done. Here is a list of my recent bug reports relating to CKEditor. I'll post other non-CKEditor bugs when I get around to it.

===

{{ CKEditor: Disappearing Code; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33661-ckeditor-disappearing-code/ }}

Various code disappears when transferring between the two modes or when initiating an edit in Rich Text mode. e.g. HTML line break tags (when in HTML editing mode), among potentially others.

Version: IPB 3.2.1, 3.2.2, possibly 3.2.3.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: all of the time.

===

{{ CKEditor: Extraneous Code; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33662-ckeditor-extraneous-code/ }}

Various unwanted code is added when transferring between the two modes or when initiating an edit in either mode. e.g. extra spaces, or via conversion of emoticon BBCode into an HTML image statement that results in extraneous code appearing around the emoticon.

Version: IPB 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.2.3.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: all of the time.

===

{{ CKEditor: Light But No Prompt; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33663-ckeditor-light-but-no-prompt/ }}

Clicking on a button that is supposed to open a prompt (e.g. Image or URL prompt) sometimes lights up the window but fails to load the prompt.

Version: IPB 3.2.2.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: not sure (in fact it happens relatively rarely in my case) but I think it might happen more often when the internet connection is slower than faster.

===

{{ CKEditor: High-Flying Prompts; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33664-ckeditor-high-flying-prompts/ }}

Some prompts (e.g. Code prompt) attach themselves to the top of the window and can't be moved vertically.

Version: IPB 3.2.2, 3.2.3.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 AND MAC at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: seemingly all of the time.

===

{{ CKEditor: Resizer Page Jump; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33665-ckeditor-resizer-page-jump/ }}

Clicking on the resizer jumps the page up, making it an arduous ordeal to actually resize the editor.

Version: IPB 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.2.3.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 AND MAC at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: seemingly all of the time, when the page is not already scrolled to the top obviously (which is most of the time if not on the Full Editor page).

---

I meant to mark this as 3.2.3, because that's the latest version it happens on, but I can't edit the original post.

-=-

{{ CKEditor: Resizer Page Jump (I meant to file this as 3.2.3 in my previous entry, but can't edit; can someone delete the older duplicate entry please?); http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33666-ckeditor-resizer-page-jump-i-meant-to-file-this-as-323-in-my-previous-entry-but-cant-edit%3B-can-someone-delete-the-older-duplicate-entry-please/ }}

Clicking on the resizer jumps the page up, making it an arduous ordeal to actually resize the editor.

Version: IPB 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.2.3.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 AND MAC at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: seemingly all of the time, when the page is not already scrolled to the top obviously (which is most of the time if not on the Full Editor page).

===

{{ CKEditor: Editor Outside Of Table; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33667-ckeditor-editor-outside-of-table/ }}

Sometimes either the editing area or the entire editor drops outside of the table it is contained within (I've seen this happen on the default IP.Board skin).

Version: IPB 3.2.1, 3.2.2.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: occasionally, and I'm not sure exactly when. Maybe it happens on certain resolution ranges or if the page loads in a certain way? I wish I could provide more details atm but I'll try my best to duplicate the situation and figure out when exactly it might be happening. I just wanted to post this now to raise awareness of it so others are more likely to duplicate the issue and/or notice it when it does happen.

===

{{ CKEditor: Failed Edit/Save Initialization; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33668-ckeditor-failed-editsave-initialization/ }}

Sometimes, attempting to initiate editing or save an edit using the CKEditor does not work.

Version: IPB 3.2.1?, 3.2.2.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: occasionally. It seems to happen more often as a subsequent edit than an initial edit after loading a page.

===

{{ CKEditor: Editor Appears But Unable To Initiate Editing; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33669-ckeditor-editor-appears-but-unable-to-initiate-editing/ }}

Occasionally, after loading a page with a CKEditor, the text area itself appears but no buttons appear, nor apparently the ability to use the text area, and it is virtually unusable as an editor.

Version: IPB 3.2.1, 3.2.2.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: occasionally. It seems to happen more often after applying an edit that re-loads the page.

===

{{ CKEditor: Editor Does Not Appear; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33670-ckeditor-editor-does-not-appear/ }}

Occasionally the entire CKEditor itself completely fails to appear despite the rest of the page loading.

Version: IPB 3.2.2.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: rarely. It seems to happen only after loading a page. Perhaps the internet connection speed at the time has something to do with it, although I can't be sure.

===

{{ CKEditor: AutoSave Doesn't Do Its Job; http://community.invisionpower.com/tracker/issue-33671-ckeditor-autosave-doesnt-do-its-job/ }}

AutoSave doesn't seem to do its job, based on my experiences. Sometimes I lose connection to the site, or I accidentally press BackSpace in a manner that would go to the previous entry in the browser history, and after returning, all of the material is gone even if the editor previously said it was autosaved. Not sure if this is a bug rather than a feature flaw, but I thought it was causing enough issues to be worth noting.

Version: IPB 3.2.1, 3.2.2.
Using: the latest version of Chrome on Windows 7 at the time of writing, but possibly happens on other browser/OS combos.
Occurs: in the above scenarios, at minimum.

===

[connorhawke]

On a possibly related note, does anyone here know how to change the text area CSS attributes (e.g. background color, color) for the CKEditor?

It's on a related note if it's significantly more complicated and/or intrusive to implement custom CSS attributes for the CKEditor text area than it was for the 3.1 standard editor text area.

[connorhawke]

On a possibly related note, does anyone here know how to change the text area CSS attributes (e.g. background color, color) for the CKEditor?

It's on a related note if it's significantly more complicated and/or intrusive to implement custom CSS attributes for the CKEditor text area than it was for the 3.1 standard editor text area.

Found a solution for this:

http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/348398-ckeditor-standard-mode-as-default-instead-of-rich-mode/page__view__findpost__p__2177516

[TSP]

I fully agree with the things that's been said here from +++ and Aisha. The biggest issue is the fact that the buttons get disabled when bbcode mode is enabled.

It might work beautifully when writing small posts, but maintaining and editing large posts with lots of different formatting is a completely different story. This might make life easier for those unfamiliar with bbcodes, but shouldn't be introduced at the expence of experienced users in my opinion.

Besides, I've experienced a number of problems involving the RTE. It seems to love stripping away lineshifts from copied text for example...

This is defineatly one of the bigger changes that makes me extremely hesitant in upgrading our board to 3.2.

[jackflash]

OK - I'll be one of the black sheep here by saying that I like the new editor (3.2+).

On some new start up sites that we're using IPB (in lieu of VB), it works fine without complaints. We haven't upgraded any large community sites yet to see what kind of feedback we'll get, but people are switching between our 3.1 and 3.2 sites just fine.

Now, if IBP would fix the way emoticons were managed and side bars were handled, I'd be in a Happy Place.

[connorhawke]

Now, if IBP would fix the way emoticons were managed and side bars were handled, I'd be in a Happy Place.

We'll all be in Happy Places soon. IPS is inventing a time machine to allow users to revert or progress to any previous or future version of any IPS product component.

[Marcher Technologies]

We'll all be in Happy Places soon. IPS is inventing a time machine to allow users to revert or progress to any previous or future version of any IPS product component.

... umm lol? do you even fathom the complexity and infeasibility of such a thing?

[NewRockRabbit]

- Can't upload images directly using the Image prompt; need to upload an attachment first. WTF!

This didn't happen even with our old editor. I don't expect this would be changed in the near future - the attachments system is a special component unto itself, and isn't as easy as just slapping in anywhere. The image button is meant for linking images, not uploading them.

Sorry, but from a forum user's perspective I find this totally counter intuitive. When I (or my users) click a button called 'image' we expect to be able to upload an image, not link to it.

Would it not be possible to have two image buttons on the menu, one called 'link image', which would work as now, and a second called 'insert image', which would then bring up the attachments function?

[Lockjit]

It was short sighted of Invision to not include the option for the old editor.

Sometimes I wonder whether they think about their customers who have huge boards over the customers who do this as a part time hobby with a 5-10 member base.

Seriously, a decision like that could ruin someone's online income.

Here comes the "you didnt have to upgrade brigade"

[Lewis P]

It was short sighted of Invision to not include the option for the old editor.

Sometimes I wonder whether they think about their customers who have huge boards over the customers who do this as a part time hobby with a 5-10 member base.

Seriously, a decision like that could ruin someone's online income.

Here comes the "you didnt have to upgrade brigade"

You didn't have to upgrade. You knew that the editor was different, so you should have decided if that was an important factor for you to not upgrade.

[Lockjit]

You didn't have to upgrade. You knew that the editor was different, so you should have decided if that was an important factor for you to not upgrade.

Ha ha so predictable.... so i'll just stay on an outdated version forever... nice one.

The option should have been included... FACT.

Cheers for the laughs.

[Lewis P]

Only telling you the way it is... If you're not happy, don't use it - it's as simple as.

[rgf100]

There's a recipe for progress, right there.

"Hey, Ugg, see this raw mammoth meat we're eating. What if we used that new fire thing and . . . "
"Shut up. If you don't like raw mammoth meat, go and eat grass."