Hump Day: A Refresh Has Arrived!

[Adriano Faria]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

When you are doing something part time, any change in your personal life can mean you can't manage it any longer or simple what to do something else.

Not my case. This is my only source of income for a couple of years or so (yes, I’m not crazy to have 200 resources for nothing) but honestly, this is becoming a pain more and more at every “new thing” IPS does.

IPS don’t listen. Just read. Try to justify things and that’s it. Nothing will change.

So for the rest (of us) stop wasting your time debating here. That’s how it will be from now on. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Adriano Faria

[Duken]

6 minutes ago, Adriano Faria said:

Not my case. This is my only source of income for a couple of years or so (yes, I’m not crazy to have 200 resources for nothing) but honestly, this is becoming a pain more and more at every “new thing” IPS does.

IPS don’t listen. Just read. Try to justify things and that’s it. Nothing will change.

So for the rest (of us)top wasting your time debating here. That’s how it will be from now on. 

Adriano is one of the best developers on the marketplace. Maby The best....

Dont loose him, that's just like kicking out Max Verstappen out of Red Bull F1 racing. These are the people we depend on.

Listen to what he is saying

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Duken

[kims79]

Il y a 55 minutes, Matt a dit :

Nous n’avons jamais voulu être les moins chers, juste les meilleurs. 🙂

Désolé d’être snippy, mais woltlab semble être devenu meilleur que vous et est beaucoup moins cher, nous envisageons de migrer vers eux.

[Rizenmusic]

@Mattwhat would you say if your barber would tell you that your haircut costs now 50% more just before they finish it, but then tell you that it's not a big deal because they didn't want to be the cheapest, just the best? I bet you would be furious and rightfully so.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Rizenmusic

[RevengeFNF]

6 minutes ago, Rizenmusic said:

@Mattwhat would you say if your barber would tell you that your haircut costs now 50% more just before they finish it, but then tell you that it's not a big deal because they didn't want to be the cheapest, just the best? I bet you would be furious and rightfully so.

He would probably just go to another Barber after that 😉

[jesuralem]

@Matt what would be the harm of letting people choose the renewal period ?

I know i would definitely choose 1 year personnaly but at least you would make a move to help some of us.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, Rizenmusic said:

@Mattwhat would you say if your barber would tell you that your haircut costs now 50% more just before they finish it, but then tell you that it's not a big deal because they didn't want to be the cheapest, just the best? I bet you would be furious and rightfully so.

Actually he has raised his prices now you mention it. By roughly 20% (I just checked his website and what I remember paying before).

I think any price rise is met with annoyance, no one wants to pay more than they did.

1 minute ago, RevengeFNF said:

He would probably just go to another Barber after that 😉

I like mine a lot. He knows what I want without me asking for it. I get good service and we have a lot of laughs. I also know he works hard and is good at what he does.

3 minutes ago, jesuralem said:

@Matt what would be the harm of letting people choose the renewal period ?

I know i would definitely choose 1 year personnaly but at least you would make a move to help some of us.

We can do a 6 month renewal for you for your next renewal cycle if that's easier for you.

[Duken]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

We can do a 6 month renewal for you for your next renewal cycle if that's easier for you.

Me to please

[Marc]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

I like mine a lot. He knows what I want without me asking for it. I get good service and we have a lot of laughs. I also know he works hard and is good at what he does.

With Matts head of hair, I can concur his barber works hard

#jealous 

[byMarcoX]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

I like mine a lot. He knows what I want without me asking for it. I get good service and we have a lot of laughs. I also know he works hard and is good at what he does.

C'est vrai et faux à la fois, moi avant j'aillais chez Jean-Louis David (une référence en France) et je payais 25€ pour une coupe simple (rasé)...aujourd'hui, je vais chez des barbiers et çà me coûte 10€ la coupe qui est mieux faite, il me mets une protection au coup, il veut même me rasé la barbe et m'offrir un café, du coup, je me suis dit pourquoi rester chez Jean-Louis David et être à chaque fois déçu du résultat et du prix 😉 mauvais exemple @Matt 🤪

It's true and false at the same time, me before I went to Jean-Louis David (a reference in France) and I paid 25 € for a simple cut (shaved) ... today, I go to barbers and it costs me 10 € the cut which is better made, he puts me a protection at the blow, he even wants to shave my beard and offer me a coffee, suddenly, I said to myself why stay at Jean-Louis David and be disappointed each time with the result and the price 😉 bad example @Matt 🤪

 

 

[jesuralem]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

I think any price rise is met with annoyance, no one wants to pay more than they did.

As I said, the price rise is not really the problem here for me. they had been the same for more than 15 years and everybody can understand it.

Now you are making a lot of changes suddenly after 15 years with barely any, you can only expect people to react strongly.

this is all change management and communication, as i said you chose the "rip the band aid" approach, and you may be right a everybody will complain for a few days and i will probably be business as usual in a week. But a more progressive approach would probably have created less tension.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, byMarcoX said:

C'est vrai et faux à la fois, moi avant j'aillais chez Jean-Louis David (une référence en France) et je payais 25€ pour une coupe simple (rasé)...aujourd'hui, je vais chez des barbiers et çà me coûte 10€ la coupe qui est mieux faite, il me mets une protection au coup, il veut même me rasé la barbe et m'offrir un café, du coup, je me suis dit pourquoi rester chez Jean-Louis David et être à chaque fois déçu du résultat et du prix 😉 mauvais exemple @Matt 🤪

It's true and false at the same time, me before I went to Jean-Louis David (a reference in France) and I paid 25 € for a simple cut (shaved) ... today, I go to barbers and it costs me 10 € the cut which is better made, he puts me a protection at the blow, he even wants to shave my beard and offer me a coffee, suddenly, I said to myself why stay at Jean-Louis David and be disappointed each time with the result and the price 😉 bad example @Matt 🤪

 

 

Can I have his phone number?

7 minutes ago, Duken said:

Me to please

Just send us a message here. Thanks!

[Larry]

As a long time client who also spent several years on the staff side of things here, I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective of Invision.

I have zero issue with the price increase. Obviously nobody likes to pay more than they did previously, but I feel like I am still getting a good deal so it is fine with me. I actually prefer the annual payments, I do it for my hosting as well. 

When I was on staff, I saw how hard everyone on the team worked from the bottom to the top. Everything here was about making sure each client felt respected and treated equally. It didn't matter if you had a forum license only or every add-on in the book.

I think the new support method will actually end up being something clients prefer when they see it in action. A lot of tickets were things that fellow clients would have been able to answer quicker. Now, you not only have those clients but you have the great Invision staff as well handling the inquiries. You'll also be able to look back at previously posted threads and maybe find your answer quicker than ever.

If any company deserves the benefit of the doubt with this change, it is Invision.

I look forward to many more years here and hopefully these changes let Invision continue to grow and improve.

[RevengeFNF]

5 minutes ago, jesuralem said:

As I said, the price rise is not really the problem here for me. they had been the same for more than 15 years and everybody can understand it.

We all understand that prices needs to change over the years.

The issue here is, are you in the market or are you out of the market in terms of price? What is the price of your competitors?

I did not check the price of all the competitors, but IPS is probably now the most expensive bulletin software of the industry.

[Rizenmusic]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

Actually he has raised his prices now you mention it. By roughly 20% (I just checked his website and what I remember paying before).

I think any price rise is met with annoyance, no one wants to pay more than they did.

It's not about the fact that prices are rising. In my country it's a constant process, they never stop. It's about:

1. That the gap between old and new prices is 50% which is a lot. I don't see many businesses do this to their loyal clients. We would understand something about 15-20%, not 50%.

2. That you guys try to sell it like "but look at monthly rate! Not a big deal!". You seem to forget that people who are able to spend hundreds of dollars on forum software are adults and wouldn't fall to cheap marketing tricks. I'm a marketer myself, and I know exactly what is happening here.

3. That you didn't inform us before this decision so any hobbyists could pay for their software. The greediness is not good.

4. That you try to sell it like IPS is the best thing ever, some premium software that is nowhere near it's competitors. But would the best software company treat it's customers like this? For real? 

5. That you tried to cover it under website redesign.

6. That you're telling us "pay more but if you have a problem - go ask community"

 

You know, it feels really bad. It's a really bad publicity. How many existing clients will recommend IPS after moves like this, how do you think?

 

[byMarcoX]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Can I have his phone number?

En fait, comme l'a dit un autre membre, çà ne sert à rien de débattre avec vous, vous avez réponse à tout, vous vous foutez de la gueule de vos clients, vous êtes un dieu vivant condescendant et nous des merdes qui devons nous la fermer et payer sans râler, c'est bon on a compris, sur ce, bonne journée, je supprimerai mon compte à la fin de ma licence...bye à la communauté 😉 je vais arrêter de perdre mon temps ici.

In fact, as another member said, there is no point arguing with you, you have an answer for everything, you don't give a damn about your customers, you are a condescending living god and we faeces that must we close it and pay without complaining, it's good we understood, on that note, have a nice day, I will delete my account at the end of my license ... bye to the community 😉 I will stop wasting my time here.

 

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, Rizenmusic said:

It's not about the fact that prices are rising. In my country it's a constant process, they never stop. It's about:

1. That the gap between old and new prices is 50% which is a lot. I don't see many businesses do this to their loyal clients. We would understand something about 15-20%, not 50%.

2. That you guys try to sell it like "but look at monthly rate! Not a big deal!". You seem to forget that people who are able to spend hundreds of dollars on forum software are adults and wouldn't fall to cheap marketing tricks. I'm a marketer myself, and I know exactly what is happening here.

3. That you didn't inform us before this decision so any hobbyists could pay for their software. The greediness is not good.

4. That you try to sell it like IPS is the best thing ever, some premium software that is nowhere near it's competitors. But would the best software company treat it's customers like this? For real? 

5. That you tried to cover it under website redesign.

6. That you're telling us "pay more but if you have a problem - go ask community"

 

You know, it feels really bad. It's a really bad publicity. How many existing clients will recommend IPS after moves like this, how do you think?

 

I think a few are upset, and are at different points of managing that feeling. I would hope that most see that it is not about greed but rather ensuring a stable future for our customers on our platform.

[Rizenmusic]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

ensuring a stable future for our customers

Just without those of us who don't make money out of it, right? 😉

[Hexsplosions]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I think any price rise is met with annoyance, no one wants to pay more than they did.

I don't believe that to be the case, Matt.

I do not expect IPS to hold its prices, but this is not just a pricing issue. There are a number of issues:

1. It's a big price increase (46% for me), in one fell swoop, on an unsuspecting customer. That introduces a shock factor to the equation. That is entirely of IPS's making. Smaller incremental adjustments to pricing, inline with inflation, are easier to absorb and to plan for. This increase is not.
2. It was not communicated. I cannot tell you how furious I was to find a new price on the website, with a changed renewal term, without so much as a word from IPS. I therefore have little time to absorb, reflect or plan for it, and being on the smaller hobbyist side of your userbase, I now have serious doubts about being able to continue to be a customer. That is a shame after a decade of being a loyal customer, but I guess that's part of the game.
3. It benefits your cash flow and hurts ours. You get a chunk of cash in one go, whereas you would have previously accepted it in two. It's stated that this is in part for simplicity, yet I can see no justifable reason for this claim. How hard is it to set 6-monthly renewals? You've done it for years. Bringing it inline with industry standards isn't a compelling reason - IPS is now just as inflexible as other industry players.
4. The communication, when it did arrive, was completely tone-deaf. "Don't worry, it's not bad news"... Yes, it is. It's not only an unexpectedly large price increase with little notice, but it's changing the frequency too. Neither of those things are good news for me. The costs were communicated in monthly terms when the renewal is now collected annually, which screams of smoke and mirrors.

Edited September 15, 2021 by The Heff
Typos

[Zapusto]

33 minutes ago, Matt said:

I appreciate your feedback and I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving. Our aim for a support community is not just a ticket system in public, but rather a living knowledge base. We would consider putting in a "problem search" feature in the Admin Panel so you can quickly see if your issue has already been resolved before needing to submit a ticket.

Same, I appreciate your point of view. As a businessman myself, the reality is that the smaller accounts usually cost the most in support, in both time and money. And, let's be honest, your job is to increase net margins. And these changes serve to streamline that. In most cases, changes are usually met with a public backlash, a lot of huffing and puffing and sky is falling talk, and that's the extent of it. And the truth is, IPB will not miss smaller accounts like mine. Such is life. I get that.

As a thought, you could have simply retained proper ticket support as part of a monthly subscription -- or even capped it at 3 or so included support tickets a month, then a fee per ticket afterwards -- as incentive to go post publicly in the forums. At the same time, IPB could easily aggregate information from private support tickets internally to then create an official knowledgebase of answers that could be the first line of support within people's admin areas. But still offer private ticket support directly.

FWIW, and I will preface by saying the following is via conscientious choice when making a purchase. There isn't a company I deal with that does not offer a direct line of private support communication as part of my subscription/lease/product cost -- it's a big reason why I pay for services instead of the "free versions". I expect products I pay for to be properly supported, privately. I admittedly never expected IPB to shift away from this model.

On that note, I'll bow out of this discussion.

Best regards.

[Davyc]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

I think a few are upset, and are at different points of managing that feeling. I would hope that most see that it is not about greed but rather ensuring a stable future for our customers on our platform.

I would be more concerned about the clients who are keeping quiet than the ones making a noise.  My mom was a fountain of wisdom right up until her demise at the grand old age of 89 years.  She used to drum this into me:

"It's OK to make mistakes, but always be sure to admit to them, take ownership and make sure that your mistakes never have a negative impact on others and if they do, then do something positive to make amends."

There's also a saying that everyone will be familiar with "Act in haste, repent at leisure"  Hindsight can be an awakening moment, but often it is too late when realisation hits home.

It's not too late to do something positive and resolve this horrible situation, but you need to act now to enforce damage control - I can see your competitors rubbing their hands in glee just waiting for the torrent of new clients heading their way. I cannot get my head around the rationalisation of this move - it really does beggar belief.

[Duken]

10 minutes ago, Davyc said:

I can see your competitors rubbing their hands in glee just waiting for the torrent of new clients heading their way.

I can see these guys lauging and thinking... 

Should we start a **% off with a free migration?  Nooooo we cant....... Can we......

Edit, nevermind. Topic is costumers only.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Duken

[AlexWebsites]

5 hours ago, Matt said:

In the future, you would just post it in the support forum and our team will take care of it.

Is the support forum topic to post "private" because posting urls on this site back to the individual site with the issues is not something I would suggest or like to do in a "public" forum. Is there an option for that? So basically you are charging an increased renewal for upgrades mostly and have removed any type of 1:1 support via email or ticket system.

Edited September 15, 2021 by AlexWebsites

[Dexter_X]

I'm just beginning to wonder if Invision has not been bought by bigger competitor company (social network or something like that) wanting to finish all "little" communities to definitely die for their benefit... 😕

[Adriano Faria]

42 minutes ago, AlexWebsites said:

Is the support forum topic to post "private" because posting urls on this site back to the individual site with the issues is not something I would suggest or like to do in a "public" forum. Is there and option for that? So basically you are charging an increased renewal for upgrades mostly and have removed any type of 1:1 support via email or ticket system.

Nope, the idea is to make a "living knowledge base": https://invisioncommunity.com/forums/topic/461833-hump-day-a-refresh-has-arrived/page/12/?tab=comments#comment-2865684