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Subseven

We want our paid subscriptions back...

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Posted (edited)

IPB always used to have paid subscriptions built in. Then one day, everything changed and we had to buy Nexus/Commerce to have paid subscriptions. I mean come on. We had it for years. I don't want a store, so why have all that commerce stuff? All other reputable forum scripts out there have paid subscription setups included. Our IPB setups should too...without paying for Commerce.

If there is something I haven't heard about, let me know.

Edited by Subseven

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Technically, it's not a subscription thing but rather an addon thing. But, I do think that if someone doesn;t want to use an IPS addon anymore, they should be able to "remove" that item from their bi-annual license renewal thing. As it stands now, IPS has it set up where you're force to renew your license for gallery even if you want to discontinue using Gallery and just stick with the license for the forum.

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8 minutes ago, Rheddy said:

As it stands now, IPS has it set up where you're force to renew your license for gallery even if you want to discontinue using Gallery and just stick with the license for the forum.

There is not button to cancel an app, but you can discontinue it by writing to support. 

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I hear you. But, the way I understand it now, once you have initially purchase a license for, say, Forums, Gallery, and Content ... that IPS' renewal system no longer allows you to renew your license for only those apps or addons that you want. That ever since IPS 4.x was released, that the "suite" is simply lumped into a single download. Far as I'm aware, there's no way to separate the individual IPS apps. I know you used to be able to select and choose which IPS apps you wanted to renew but it's no longer that way.

I wasn't aware that you could simply contact Support and tell them you just want to renew "Forums". Oh, and once you let your license lapse, then renew it at a later date, IPS' client portal doesn't allow you to send a support ticket for any inquiry, you actually have to renew first, before you can send a support ticket inquiry. It's one thing I discovered a few days ago when I renewed after my last renewal period in 2018 went by. I typically renew about once per year since my expenses are limited due to my disability.

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It's not that you only want to renew Forums, it's that you want no longer want Gallery. It means that if you did want Gallery again at a future date, you'd have to buy it again as a new app.

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4 minutes ago, Rheddy said:

. that IPS' renewal system no longer allows you to renew your license for only those apps or addons that you want.

Because that was a terrible idea. If you upgrade some apps, but not others, you site will sooner or later break, because the code in those different apps is not being made to work together properly anymore. 

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1 minute ago, opentype said:

Because that was a terrible idea. If you upgrade some apps, but not others, you site will sooner or later break, because the code in those different apps is not being made to work together properly anymore. 

I hear what you're saying. But, if someone makes the decision that they are disabling/removing Gallery/Content/Blogs from their community, then they should be able to just renew their license for the Forums. IPS just doesn't give that option or state anywhere that they could request just a renewal for Forums, etc. I think that IPS bunched them altogether to make it less work for them to worry about. I know that it was never lumped altogether like that until 4.x was released. Back when 3.x was around, you were able to renew your licenses separately for each app/addon. Clients were already aware that they couldn't run their older version of Gallery on a newer version of the forums.

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3 minutes ago, Rheddy said:

Clients were already aware that they couldn't run their older version of Gallery on a newer version of the forums.

Pretty sure IPS support, who had to deal with sites broken because of this would disagree. 😉 

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Posted (edited)

Regardless. I do think that, if requested (from a user who no longer wants the addons installed in their community) that they should be able to just renew their forum license. For me, I've active licenses on Board, Pages and Gallery so it's not an issue for me but I do think that IPS should make it an available request if a client wants to remove addons from their license renewal. I don't think I saw an indication in Support on whether that was possible. Unless I overlooked it. But I did notice the thing about not being able to create a support ticket until I renewed my license (everything was greyed out, which I found particularly amusing).

Edited by Rheddy

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I too would like to not have to pay to renew a feature that I no longer use. If I later decide I want it then I would be fine paying full price.

As far as subscriptions without e-commerce that is the #1 feature I would like. I don't need the entire store functionality. For smaller forums that only generate a small number of subscriptions, it is almost not even worth it to pay for ecomm.

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49 minutes ago, mudcrutch said:

I too would like to not have to pay to renew a feature that I no longer use. If I later decide I want it then I would be fine paying full price.

Not to get into our policy but just to clarify our current policy for those who may not be aware:

  • We can remove an application from your license that you no longer wish to have on the license.
  • You must uninstall said application from your community.
  • If you wish to use said application at a later date, you will need to purchase at the full price (not the renewal price).

If you wish to perform this or have any questions, please submit a ticket 🙂 

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7 hours ago, Rheddy said:

But I did notice the thing about not being able to create a support ticket until I renewed my license (everything was greyed out, which I found particularly amusing).

The only one that is grayed out is Purchase drop-down (because you don't have an active license).  Click on the checkbox below that drop-down "This request is not related to any specific purchase" and you should be good to go.

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3 hours ago, Jim M said:
  • We can remove an application from your license that you no longer wish to have on the license.
  • You must uninstall said application from your community.
  • If you wish to use said application at a later date, you will need to purchase at the full price (not the renewal price).

imo  - that's really bad way. Their should be additional placeholder for all add-ons, where all non used apps you can put and if users plan to use them again - they can easily renew and attach it back to site. 

Imagine Microsoft asking their users to buy the game again for their Xbox .. when users uninstall them. Massive back fire would happen. Before IPS 4.x you can renew add-ons separately. So I am not sure why it got changed in IPS 4.x series. If any user creates ticket with mismatch version - just tell them versions are not same on site so please update site first for all add-ons, problem solved from support perspective as well. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, mudcrutch said:

I too would like to not have to pay to renew a feature that I no longer use. If I later decide I want it then I would be fine paying full price.

As far as subscriptions without e-commerce that is the #1 feature I would like. I don't need the entire store functionality. For smaller forums that only generate a small number of subscriptions, it is almost not even worth it to pay for ecomm.

 

Finally. Somebody else gets it. This is what this toipic is really about. For this reason alone, I may end up going with Xenforo or back to VB 3.8.X in the future., IPB always had it before that Nexus/Commerce BS. I just want to have Premium Members via a Paypal Subscription via IPB just like it always used to be...and part of what we paid for in the beginning.

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Posted (edited)

Going off what Jim M said, once you remove a license for an addon, but you only retain the license for Forums, then you wouldn't be able to use those addons that you removed from your license once you upgrade Forums simply because the previous installed versions would not be compatible with the new version of the forum software. Uninstalling it from your community would be the only option you could have available to you. This is because you wouldn't be able to use Forums 4.4.1 while still having Gallery 4.2.x installed, it would be akin to pouring sugar into your gas tank ... you wouldn't like the end result. 😂

Edited by Rheddy

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7 hours ago, Jim M said:

Not to get into our policy but just to clarify our current policy for those who may not be aware:

  • We can remove an application from your license that you no longer wish to have on the license.
  • You must uninstall said application from your community.
  • If you wish to use said application at a later date, you will need to purchase at the full price (not the renewal price).

If you wish to perform this or have any questions, please submit a ticket 🙂 

Thank you I will try again as this is what was said in a ticket from a few days ago...

Unfortunately we do not allow the swapping of packages within the system at the present time.

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2 hours ago, mudcrutch said:

Thank you I will try again as this is what was said in a ticket from a few days ago...

Unfortunately we do not allow the swapping of packages within the system at the present time.

What you were told is correct. An application can only be removed, not swapped. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, AlexJ said:

imo  - that's really bad way. Their should be additional placeholder for all add-ons, where all non used apps you can put and if users plan to use them again - they can easily renew and attach it back to site. 

Imagine Microsoft asking their users to buy the game again for their Xbox .. when users uninstall them. Massive back fire would happen. Before IPS 4.x you can renew add-ons separately. So I am not sure why it got changed in IPS 4.x series. If any user creates ticket with mismatch version - just tell them versions are not same on site so please update site first for all add-ons, problem solved from support perspective as well. 

 

 

Quote
  • We can remove an application from your license that you no longer wish to have on the license.
  • You must uninstall said application from your community.
  •  If you wish to use said application at a later date, you will need to purchase at the full price (not the renewal price).
1

True, we the users need more flexibility in this area.  We should be able to place addons dormant separately until we need them without the need to purchase an ad on all over again. Not good.  

Edited by beats23

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Subseven said:

Finally. Somebody else gets it. 

Everyone gets the feature request. Understanding it isn’t the issue. 

But IPS has made the decision to put everything concerning payments into its own app. They won’t take the key feature of Commerce (payments) and add a second copy of that into the core just to allow subscriptions without Commerce. That makes no sense from a technological point of view. Nor will they move the main feature of the Commerce app (payments) into the core, removing one of the main reasons to buy the app. That makes no sense from a business point of view. So I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for any changes in that regard. 

Cloud clients in the standard packages have Commerce anyway at no extra costs. So it’s not even an issue there. Self-hosted clients just need to calculate if it’s worth it. If you make below $100 over several years, it won’t work, but would it be worth it anyway? If you can make more than $100 through subscriptions, the investment is worth it. If you sell $20 subscriptions for example, then your first 5 users pay for your Commerce license. And if you end up having around 20 paying users at any time, you make a nice profit all the time. So I don’t really see the problem. In fact, the Commerce app is the only app in the suite with this potential to directly pay for itself. 

Edited by opentype

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9 hours ago, opentype said:

Everyone gets the feature request. Understanding it isn’t the issue. 

But IPS has made the decision to put everything concerning payments into its own app. They won’t take the key feature of Commerce (payments) and add a second copy of that into the core just to allow subscriptions without Commerce. That makes no sense from a technological point of view. Nor will they move the main feature of the Commerce app (payments) into the core, removing one of the main reasons to buy the app. That makes no sense from a business point of view. So I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for any changes in that regard. 

Cloud clients in the standard packages have Commerce anyway at no extra costs. So it’s not even an issue there. Self-hosted clients just need to calculate if it’s worth it. If you make below $100 over several years, it won’t work, but would it be worth it anyway? If you can make more than $100 through subscriptions, the investment is worth it. If you sell $20 subscriptions for example, then your first 5 users pay for your Commerce license. And if you end up having around 20 paying users at any time, you make a nice profit all the time. So I don’t really see the problem. In fact, the Commerce app is the only app in the suite with this potential to directly pay for itself. 

We had it for years and not as an addon. Like I said, subscriptions and being able to take payments via PayPal for them is a standard on every other reputable forum. That one part alone is was part of what we paid for in the beginning. They could add that one part back just for member subscriptions. That's flat out greed.

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10 minutes ago, Subseven said:

We had it for years and not as an addon. Like I said, subscriptions and being able to take payments via PayPal for them is a standard on every other reputable forum. That one part alone is was part of what we paid for in the beginning. They could add that one part back just for member subscriptions. That's flat out greed.

Really no need to quote me when you answer doesn’t address a single point I was making and is the exact repetition of what you already said. 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, opentype said:

Really no need to quote me when you answer doesn’t address a single point I was making and is the exact repetition of what you already said. 

 

Your points in your reply were just your opinion and you obviously don't care about what was done, so why even comment? I could address every single one of them, but it's not worth my time. I know you make some money off of your addon's for IPB and that's fine; but it also explains how quick you are to take their side in the decision. Kind of like how we pay for an addon, they do an upgrade...then we have to pay for the addon again....That is part of maintaining an addon no matter how anybody would try to sell it on all new coding.

I still stand by we shouldn't have to pay for something we already paid for. To be forced to buy an addon we'd only use a very small percentage of isn't right. Period,

Edited by Subseven

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8 minutes ago, Subseven said:

so why even comment?

I’ve explained in detail why I commented. You painted it as “only a few people would get it” and I weighed in on that, explained to you, why I think that isn’t the problem. That’s what discussion forums are for. I made a case that a change in that regard is unlikely and that an investment in the app can pay for itself. All of these points are for your benefit. For you to consider. It’s not what you asked for, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t say it or that my points weren’t reasonable. You can consider and address them—or ignore them. Your choice and both are totally fine! But don’t make it worse by making false claims, e.g. “I obviously wouldn’t care” or that I would be biased, because I have products on the marketplace. None of my points rely on any of that and my posts also don’t suggested anything like that. It’s a classic ad hominem attack. I presented arguments and I am happy to discuss arguments. We don’t need to use dishonest debate tactics just because there are disagreements.  

8 minutes ago, Subseven said:

To be forced to buy an addon we'd only use a very small percentage of isn't right. 

And I would disagree again: You do not want a small percentage of Commerce, you want the main feature of Commerce, which is “handling payments”. And you also want subscriptions, another major feature of the app as well, which was just rewritten as part of the 4.x series. 

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Commerce is a highly important and powerful app for many communities, which should generate extra income for IPS. If it was just a basic add-on that generated no extra revenue, then it would be treated a bit like the way profiles are treated - with the occasional minor update.

I happily pay the extra fees so that IPS put in the time and effort to keep improving it. And like @opentype stated, it should be relatively easy to make your money back as the cost is relatively low. If you are making less than $35 over 6 months then what is the point in you offering subscriptions anyway.

56 minutes ago, Subseven said:

I still stand by we shouldn't have to pay for something we already paid for.

You paid for a license to use their software. If tomorrow they released an update turning their app into nothing more than a stream of cat pictures, they have the right to do so.

 

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