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Meddysong

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Meddysong last won the day on January 26 2018

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About Meddysong

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  • Birthday 12/16/1978

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  1. My last project was handed over to an admin team which consists of people who natively speak German, French, Japanese, English and Portuguese. Their working language, the only one they have in common, is Esperanto. Am I not in my right mind to have translated the ACP into their common language, bearing in mind that they don't all speak English?
  2. The last few posts beg the question (and I'm sorry for prolonging the derailment): since the thing that looks very much like an apostrophe to the untrained eye isn't actually one, then what is it?
  3. I'm in just that situation now. New site about to launch and the menu is ready to go. Yes, I have Articles, Resources and even a Community item. But what to call the item under that last heading which points to the Forums app? In the absence of anything better, it's reading Forums. It's bothering me but I can't think of anything else, so it's staying, at least for now.
  4. Non, sono inglese ma studiavo italiano quando ero più giovane perché credo che sia la più bella lingua del mondo. Ho appena riuscito parlare la lingua nella vita, solamente quando visitiamo il tuo bellissima paese.
  5. Enzo, non hai capito niente di ciò che ho scritto! (Devo respondere in inglese altremente nessuno potrà leggerlo | I have to write my answer in English unfortunately because otherwise other people won't understand.) I said the same thing! My language pack is not available on the Marketplace. It's personal. I'm the only person who uses it. Translating is too much work. That's why I haven't done every language string. I've only done the language strings which show on the front. It's not worth the trouble translating it when nobody will buy it. (Siccome nessuno non lo comprerà, non vale la pena di tradurrlo.)
  6. Now now, Tom; that was just my personal thought and I can't bring it back for others 😉 And therein lies the problem: 1) IPS can't guarantee that approved translators will stick around, 2) Just because something's for sale, doesn't mean it will sell. I doubt anybody else in the world would want my language ... but if they did, I'd have to charge hundreds if the goal were getting a fair return for the hours invested, so wouldn't make a single sale anyway. Things might be different for larger languages, but they're already for sale.
  7. Sì, ho capito. Quello che non capisce, sei tu. It doesn't matter at all to me whether somebody might be interested in a translated ACP in my language; it's not for sale because it's not finished and I don't want to spend hundreds of hours finishing the translation. In the very unlikely case that somebody wanted my language, I still wouldn't sell the language pack on the Marketplace. It's not worth it to me to spend hundreds of hours translating extra language strings. I doubt I'm the only person who feels that way. If it were possible to sell a language as "front only", then maybe more people would make their own packs available. But it's just not worth it to have to do so much extra work for very little money.
  8. There's no money in it, is there? The time investment is so great that I couldn't imagine ever doing it to make money. I've been working on my own language pack since the beta stage of 4.x and it's still not 100% complete (though is enough for my personal needs because I don't care about seeing English in the ACP). I wouldn't upload my own one for sale because if a customer were to point out "it's not 100% done", then I'm effectively committed to 100+ hours of work to make next to nothing.
  9. That's not a good argument, Enzo. I'm a translator too; I've translated the language pack for my own language. If you're going to translate a language, you need to know how pluralization works. The first time it might be difficult but you have to learn it. It's not for IPS to set up the English so that it's convenient for Italians. Other languages have different forms of plural. Ilya gave you an example earlier. The Slavic languages use one form with 1, another with 2, 3 and 4, then switch to another with 5 to 10, and so on. Should IPS set all those out in English too? Or just the forms which Italian uses?
  10. It's not a question of forcing people to use English's grammar. I would complain too if that were true. Your example is the opposite. Even though the English version doesn't change for number, IPS has kindly written that language string using the pluralization functionality. English doesn't need it but other languages do. It's up to the translators to write appropriate translations. IPS has done enough by introducing pluralization even though English doesn't use it there. It's a joke to suggest they should also write the string using non-existent plural distinctions in English.
  11. ^^ He's German. Ilya is Russian. And I speak probably the most eclectic language of all. I think we probably understand that the suite isn't sold exclusively to English-speakers.
  12. You're correct, Brandon, that the initial post doesn't require any work from IPS's side. Somewhere in the middle something unrelated emerged which would benefit from consideration and which I've written up separately:
  13. It's hard to know what to recommend when the first sentence starts "Some of your themes are incompatible". Are they or aren't they? If they are, then the heading's fine. If they're not, then you could change the heading but without changing that first sentence to something else, it's pretty pointless.
  14. I've started a proper feedback topic on the question of inclusivity, ie conjugating a verb differently depending on whether the user is one of the people referred to. Before Enzo claims vindication for raising the issue, however, please re-read his posts; inclusivity wasn't the issue that he raised but simple singular vs plural.
  15. I love the pluralization feature in IPS. It's easy to work with and does the job very well. There is one area that it doesn't currently capture owing to the fact that English doesn't make a visible distinction for whether a person is part of a group or not outside of the pronouns. If pronouns aren't used because the names themselves are presented, then English is easy and the system works. This isn't the case for other languages, however. Visualising with pronouns Consider reactions and what they would look like if pronouns rather than usernames were used. The language string react_blurb is currently %s {!# [?:reacted]} to this. If the only person who reacted is the user, they would expect to see the message You reacted to this. Which pronoun would be used if the user and somebody else had reacted? In English, it's still you because we don't formally differentiate the second person singular and second person plural: You are a very naughty boy and You are very naughty children use the same pronoun. That's not usually the case in other languages, Now remove the user from the equation altogether. If only one person reacted and this person isn't the user, we would expect to see a third person singular pronoun: he, she, it. (Ignore the fact that it isn't currently programatically solvable about which one to use, since in practice we're not using pronouns.) What if more than one person reacted, other than the user? We need to jump to third person plural: they: They reacted to this. Changing forms depending on whether the user is included The problem is that the current set-up doesn't allow for these distinctions. In English, they don't matter: I reacted, you (singular) reacted, he reacted, she reacted, it reacted, we reacted, you (plural) reacted, they reacted. The string %s can take any form ("You and 1 other", "One person", "You and several others", "Several people but not you") and we can capture that. In other languages we can adjust our language strings for singular or plural but not for inclusivity, the question of whether the user is included in the statement. This is important because the form changes depending on the circumstance. The verb with the second person singular is not the same as with the plural and so on. Here's how it looks in Italian: Second person singular (only the user has reacted): Tu hai reagito qui Second person plural (the user plus at least one other person have reacted): Voi avete reagito qui (or, as it could appear, Tu, Meddysong, Ilya Hoilik, opentype e 3 altri avete reagito qui) Third person singular (only one person, not the user): Lui ha reagito qui Third person plural (several people, not the user): Loro hanno reagito qui (Meddysong, Ilya Hoilik, opentype e 3 altri hanno reagito qui) It might be easier to visualise if we switch the English from reacted to have reacted: If the user is the only person or there are several people, irrespective of whether the user is one of them: %s have reacted If there is only one person but this isn't the user: %s has reacted We can get away with working around this problem in English by using the simple past form. (We perhaps shouldn't in this instance but complaining would be nitpicking!) In other languages, however, we don't have this option. It's not just a question of capturing number but also inclusivity. I don't know how you'd go about resolving this but I'm not one of the devs -- I bet you've solved trickier conundrums than this one 🙂
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