querschlaeger Posted June 22, 2015 Author Posted June 22, 2015 I don't get it. Database (idea) items can have a discussion thread too, or not? And they are on a single point...
chilihead Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 When you don't get any response at all you feel like you're being ignored. And many topics have gone way past they "letting members reply first" stage, some are pages long. That's why sometimes people feel that IPS wants to only implement what interests them. I still suggest a database, but if keeping in topics, I'd suggest since you see them all, you somehow let us know that with some sort of status. Acknowledgement goes a long way, even if the feature is being denied. Thanks.
Management Lindy Posted June 22, 2015 Management Posted June 22, 2015 Please let go of the "ideas database" - I hate to be brash, but it's not happening (at this time anyway.) We have feedback forums, we have support tickets, we have a system for managed clients, we have ides generated from sales inquiries. We're not going to add yet another medium to contact us and share thoughts, ideas and feedback... would you rather us work on incorporating your feedback or spend all day finding, organizing and talking about your feedback? Over the years, people have asked for increased transparency and improved communication -- and we're happy to oblige, but in return, you need to recognize the limitations. Also realize, the community represents a small percentage of our overall customer base... so there may be 10 pages of feedback and it still only represents maybe 10% of what our overall customer base wants. Further, in many cases, that 10 page topic is usually the same 3 people passionate about a specific item - ie: vocal minority. That doesn't mean it won't get implemented anyway, much like 20 pages of solid vocal support for something doesn't mean it will get implemented but there are numerous considerations that need to be vetted. We don't feel particularly compelled or obligated to comment on or share this particular process with you all. We do appreciate the feedback and recognize you'd like to know if your idea going to happen or not. All I can tell you is, if it's going to for sure happen - it will eventually be put on the roadmap which you may see at any time. Otherwise, it's either not happening (in the immediate future) or we have no comment on it. I understand that's not ideal for planning purposes, but that's how things generally work and that's the best we can do for you at this time.
chilihead Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Please let go of the "ideas database" - I hate to be brash, but it's not happening (at this time anyway.) Now that's a direct response I can respect. Thanks @Lindy. Case in point. Whether we like the answer or not we know where you stand.
GrooveOnBeat Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 The community may be small by percentage but aren't those members of the community also make up the majority of developers for mods? Community members also take out of their own time to help other members. Most people won't speak out for various reasons and it's their choice. It doesn't mean that they don't want the same things as the community nor does it mean that they are perfectly content either. The people who do voice out their opinions are the ones who generally get things rolling and see results. If you don't voice it's a sure way not to be heard at all.
Jujuwar Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 - Edit topic title is missing also here: It'll be in 4.0.9
ABGenc Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 I dont know if this has been mentioned but I think Help Files is also not present on IPS4.I have an active IP.Pages license so Help Files wont be a problem for me as I can create a DB and put records on it , but what about the clients that only have IP.Forums ? How can they achieve that ?
GrooveOnBeat Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 I dont know if this has been mentioned but I think Help Files is also not present on IPS4. I noticed that the other day. I guess that's one of those features/content that was not important enough to keep?
Management Lindy Posted June 29, 2015 Management Posted June 29, 2015 I dont know if this has been mentioned but I think Help Files is also not present on IPS4. I have an active IP.Pages license so Help Files wont be a problem for me as I can create a DB and put records on it , but what about the clients that only have IP.Forums ? How can they achieve that ? As you've noticed, this can easily be accomplished with Pages. One of the goals is not to recreate redundant functionality in the core that exists in applications, whenever possible. Before the conspiracy theorists come along claiming we're trying to force the purchase of another product -- we're not. We just don't want to bloat the core when there's already "an app for that.™" Conversely, there's a couple of things we've put in apps that we feel may be better suited to be moved to the core for everyone to benefit. The menu manager will be a likely example of this soon.
GrooveOnBeat Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 As you've noticed, this can easily be accomplished with Pages. One of the goals is not to recreate redundant functionality in the core that exists in applications, whenever possible. Before the conspiracy theorists come along claiming we're trying to force the purchase of another product -- we're not. We just don't want to bloat the core when there's already "an app for that.™" Conversely, there's a couple of things we've put in apps that we feel may be better suited to be moved to the core for everyone to benefit. The menu manager will be a likely example of this soon. Menu Manager should be part of the Core. I agree! As for "Help Files", whatever happened to the forums Help that came with the forum software? I cannot seem to find it. It had a FAQ's like how to use BBCodes, or post in forums, etc. While I edited the default Help sections, the defaults gave me a base to start off with and was useful for members. As I recall we could extend the Help section too. https://community.invisionpower.com/index.php?app=core&module=help (it was located here in 3.4x) Any plans on adding that back in, and make it a plugin or something? I consider it a part of the documentation that's missing in IPB 4.
Management Lindy Posted June 29, 2015 Management Posted June 29, 2015 I thought that's what we were talking about? We don't have BBCode anymore and the editor is pretty standard in terms of WYSIWYG. I'm not sure why you'd need to go to "Help" and search how to click "Create"? I'm not being facetious, it's just the idea of the help files feels a bit antiquated... if it's needed, I feel we've not done our job from an interface standpoint and we should be focusing on that instead. Obviously the need for stronger documentation exists for admins and that's where we'd rather focus. Virtually everything from a user perspective should be relatively self-explanatory and if it's not, we'd like to hear about that. The feedback we received was largely that the help files were redundant. Some liked adding their own though, so Pages would be better for creating a site resource database.
GrooveOnBeat Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I thought that's what we were talking about? We don't have BBCode anymore and the editor is pretty standard in terms of WYSIWYG. I'm not sure why you'd need to go to "Help" and search how to click "Create"? I'm not being facetious, it's just the idea of the help files feels a bit antiquated... if it's needed, I feel we've not done our job from an interface standpoint and we should be focusing on that instead. Obviously the need for stronger documentation exists for admins and that's where we'd rather focus. Virtually everything from a user perspective should be relatively self-explanatory and if it's not, we'd like to hear about that.The feedback we received was largely that the help files were redundant. Some liked adding their own though, so Pages would be better for creating a site resource database.The Help Files was redundant because in my opinion it was outdated. IPB 4 introduces new features and I anticipate people who are used to IPB 3x, the users, will take some adjusting to and ask many questions how to this and how to that, or where is this and where is that. Already we have experienced people asking about CKEditor and missing preview, and content discovery and so on. I don't think you're being facetious but with a re-write of a new system a new set of Help Files can be useful.
3DKiwi Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I think the help files are now pretty much redundant. Common questions with Version 3 was how to add an attachment. It's much more obvious in version 4. I've not had one comment about BB code and I no longer use it myself. About the only question I've had (now that some of the problems I had with upgrading have been resolved) is how not to get a space when pressing return.I think if admins feel the need for help files that they should create their own with Pages as suggested.
ABGenc Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I thought that's what we were talking about? We don't have BBCode anymore and the editor is pretty standard in terms of WYSIWYG. I'm not sure why you'd need to go to "Help" and search how to click "Create"? I'm not being facetious, it's just the idea of the help files feels a bit antiquated... if it's needed, I feel we've not done our job from an interface standpoint and we should be focusing on that instead. Obviously the need for stronger documentation exists for admins and that's where we'd rather focus. Virtually everything from a user perspective should be relatively self-explanatory and if it's not, we'd like to hear about that. The feedback we received was largely that the help files were redundant. Some liked adding their own though, so Pages would be better for creating a site resource database.Hi @Lindy , most of us here are either site admins or site owner. That makes us easier to adapt to new systems but this may not be the Case for the users-members. I am sure all of us have members on our sites from 15 to 60s, and may be 70s. Not all them like to explore and try to find out how they can do things. Besides sometimes you need to explain things that are unique to your site, as it was in our Case, We have had moved from SMF to IPB usage of the functions had changed and news were added. I had to write almost 10 files to explain and make things easier to members to adapt ( which will probably happen again when upgraded to IPS4 )We prevent users posting other forums before they intrdocude themselves. that needs to be explained in a static record so that ppl can find out why they cant post or reply even though they are members.So I believe there may/are cases that ppl may be in need of the functionality. Either be it placed in core or someone do it with plugin.I think if admins feel the need for help files that they should create their own with Pages as suggested.That was the reason I asked. What if they dont have a Pages license ?
Management Lindy Posted June 29, 2015 Management Posted June 29, 2015 I certainly understand your point, but it's essentially taking functionality from Pages and porting it to the core, which again, is redundant. I know not everyone has Pages licenses, in which case, you could use or repurpose the Site Guidelines feature for key information like introductions.
ABGenc Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I certainly understand your point, but it's essentially taking functionality from Pages and porting it to the core, which again, is redundant. I know not everyone has Pages licenses, in which case, you could use or repurpose the Site Guidelines feature for key information like introductions.Thanks @Lindy , although that option does not have the ability to have separate files/links for each topic it can be utilized. Thinking more one it I think a separate Question Forum can be created for the Help Files too.. Not that it %100 fits, just it may be used instead..
3DKiwi Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 What if they dont have a Pages license ?You could manually create a page with html and link to it from your forum. I do this for a reviews index page. I then have a "Reviews" link on all of my forum pages.
AutoItScript Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 We just did an announcement post with the main differences https://www.autoitscript.com/forum/topic/169938-new-forum-guide-for-ips-4/ and then setup two topics for asking about new features and logging issues. I don't think I could imagine using a help file on a forum I don't think anyone on our board even knew it existed It didn't totally stop the whining though, neither would all the help files in the world
Emsi Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 BBCode has been effectively removed. While it is technically still in there, it it completely and utterly broken. That means neither we nor every other technical support community will be able to upgrade as we do rely on canned speeches a lot that are based on BBCode, exactly as we feared when we brought it up. At least we now know how much Invision's word is worth.
opentype Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 BBCode has been effectively removed. While it is technically still in there, it it completely and utterly broken.If you find a bug, please report it in the bug tracker or via a support ticket. But such an exaggerated statement (“completely and utterly broken”) is neither true nor constructive/helpful feedback.
querschlaeger Posted June 29, 2015 Author Posted June 29, 2015 Still pending... No way to disbaled BBCode yet (that is frustrating when you allow guest posting but don't want then to post url and/or img tags).
GrooveOnBeat Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 I'd like a toggle to disable/enable formatting like in IPB 3.4x.
opentype Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 I'd like a toggle to disable/enable formatting like in IPB 3.4x. Well, you can switch between WYSIWYG and HTML source code. Since styling isn’t saved as BB code anymore, there can’t be another option.
GrooveOnBeat Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Well, you can switch between WYSIWYG and HTML source code. Since styling isn’t saved as BB code anymore, there can’t be another option. It will take some time for me to get used to this editor. I used to type everything manually and now it's all done by click-click. I think I'll enjoy adding in new buttons and make use of installing plugins. I have much to explore.
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