Number 5 on my whisy list - Threadted forum

[msg]

Part of my top ten list request....

A more direct image insertion/manipulation.

3- Allow use to paste any image capture in the clip board. As of today we can paste but nothing will be show in the final render of the post.

4- allow us to re-size picture after place it in a post, If re-size, add a link on the thumbnail that will point to the full size image

OK continuing my top ten list.

5- Threaded conversation

See the rebirth of threaded discussion in the forum and comments.

This follow-up with one topic where it was request having Disqus as a tool to comment. And at the same time I receive many request regarding the option to have threaded conversation in forum from members

In case this does not make it to release, have a way to at a glance see how the discussion evolve by using any mean. I know Vbulletin as a dual display mode not really a solution more a bandaid. Maybe their is something that can be done using the quote system. Or a way to isolate a thread visually.. The defunct Google Wave had a really nice concept for conversation. That could be a staring point.

Anyone else has idea?

[Mat Barrie]

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure you will not see threaded conversations return - they actually used to be a feature of IP.Board until they were removed because no-one used the feature.

[tenaki]

Couldn't stand threaded conversations and still can't

[Charles]

Yes we did have threaded conversations in the past but it was removed as it's a sort of archaic thing. It's not really how people "think" and unless everyone uses it perfectly (makes sure to reply to a specific post and not the topic as a whole) it just doesn't work. In fact when we did have it years ago it was completely broken in a beta release for weeks before anyone noticed :lol:

[Hexsplosions]

vB has just sort of introduced this and it's awful. People just don't use it properly.

[3DKiwi]

Not one of my 25,000 members mentioned it being removed. I never used it myself. Bit of a throwback to the 90's and dial up bulletin boards if you ask me.

3DKiwi

[Rikki]

I think for threaded to work, it has to be all or nothing. It just doesn't work as an option, as Charles said, because replies don't get added to the right place when people use different views. The community would have to be all threaded, or all linear.

[Ryan H.]

I think for threaded to work, it has to be all or nothing. It just doesn't work as an option, as Charles said, because replies don't get added to the right place when people use different views. The community would have to be all threaded, or all linear.

Agreed. Threaded conversations do have a place and are even making a resurgence, as on Reddit and similar sites and practically every blog/news site's comments. It's not something you can do half-way or as a user option, though.

[msg]

Yes we did have threaded conversations in the past but it was removed as it's a sort of archaic thing. It's not really how people "think" and unless everyone uses it perfectly (makes sure to reply to a specific post and not the topic as a whole) it just doesn't work. In fact when we did have it years ago it was completely broken in a beta release for weeks before anyone noticed :lol:

Not sure why you mention archaic, this is not really a point against threaded conversation, it's like saying blue color is archaic the new fashion is blue-Violet or metallic red.

When you mention " It's not really how people "think " not really sure. When you have a conversation with multiple people the conversation you have is store in its own drawer ( thread) in our brain. From the outside it does not seems like this but from the cognitive point of view this is how the brain work no matter how you think.

When you say people does not reply correctly, this sound like the time i was told by someone else ....

"....This is fine for admins and web designers, but the average user posting an image on a forum isn't going to understand "alt" and specifying pixel width and height and so on. Thus, we stripped it down....."

For me it looks like the average user is underestimate. Those who simply hit reply without thinking should not be the benchmark but the exception. Unless i'm wrong, we have the Quote or Reply at the bottom right of each post. If someone hit reply to the main topic that's mean this is what he intend to do.

I think for threaded to work, it has to be all or nothing. It just doesn't work as an option, as Charles said, because replies don't get added to the right place when people use different views. The community would have to be all threaded, or all linear.

I don't think it should be all or nothing, I do not believe in this being a black an white situation. Also if users reply in a thread conversation directly to the main topic it will create a linear conversation. So having threaded conversation allow us to hit two stones in one shoot.


Sorry if i'm hard answering on this but I was expecting deeper answer. Do not miss read me or miss interpret i just try have a discussion to better understand what is the foundation of such decision. And sometimes a little bit of challenge in the conversation helps.

All those arguments seems to be fashion statement to my ears.


In a short conversation where all the replies stand on one page, I could understand, but when many people joint the conversation that linear model does not stand.

Not one of my 25,000 members mentioned it being removed. I never used it myself. Bit of a throwback to the 90's and dial up bulletin boards if you ask me.

3DKiwi

3D Kiwi i just take a look at your site ( nice one I like the visual render, recent gallery slide nice idea. The link page is nice i may have questions about this because it seems based on IPBoard..ok back to the main discussion) and from the sample i see most of the conversation are between two to five may be ten individuals with less then 10/20 replies. Also the forum seems like answer/question. So yes linear thread is a good ( perfect fit).

If you do not use it that does not mean other do the same. Also if users in a community does not have this feature available this is hard for them to complaint about it.

Linear conversation are good when the number of person in the conversation are low and stay the same (same number and same people). Like when we have a conversation around a good meal with a good bottle of wine.

But in a forum where people go in an out a thread to participate in the conversation, threaded feature make sense.

In big conversation on a forum, if someone reply to me and i just get back to the conversation two days later how can i find the reply address to me. In a threaded conversation, it is easy for my to get back to my anchor point in the conversation and see the replies. After that i can concentrate on other replies.


In fact doing some research i realize that linear thread become more popular because people where commenting on blog article ( they give their opinion nothing more) and few people were commenting. Has mention by Ryan, we see resurgence in threaded comments, mainly because we now not only commenting or give opinion on the net, but we engage in discussions/arguments/debates. OK i agree we still have site like Facebook where people give comments on the last photo you post,

The internet (forum) are not anymore a "comment space" we see real discussion/exchange where a single individual can answer to multiple questions ( that sound like a forum having multiple topics so why not have the same concept inside a topic (conversation)???). Again Ryan is right ( if i understand what is saying) try to read a bunch of email ( comments) if you cannot find a common thread, if you cannot understand the chronology of the exchange, if you do not know the context the email was post etc.... Threaded conversation is a not fantasies it is part of our daily life we do it without thinking about it. The conversation you have with your lover does not sit in the same conversation as you wife/husband :-).


If I come back to what I have see with VBulletin, maybe the best solution will be to have "crumb trail" ** of the conversation display in a threaded fashion so user could isolate a
branch of the conversation and look at it in a linear fashion by simply clicking on a branch. Otherwise the conversation will be display in a linear fashion.

Well that is my humble and modest opinion, feel free to add your take on this but please do not say as an excuse "this is not the flavor of the day" or at least try to come out with suggestion how we could organize conversation unless you prefer have a sterilize flat conversation. :smile:


** Crumb trail is another manifestation of how we like to have things threaded, so we can find our way back and forth

[Misi]

I think for threaded to work, it has to be all or nothing. It just doesn't work as an option, as Charles said, because replies don't get added to the right place when people use different views. The community would have to be all threaded, or all linear.

I do not use it but it works as an option for individual members in Vbulletin 3 and 4.

[Collin S.]

I do not use it but it works as an option for individual members in Vbulletin 3 and 4.

As mentioned though, when you have someone not using that option, who doesn't reply to posts properly, it messes up the view for others who are using the option, hence why "all or nothing" is really the way to go.

[msg]

As mentioned though, when you have someone not using that option, who doesn't reply to posts properly, it messes up the view for others who are using the option, hence why "all or nothing" is really the way to go.

Not sure about the mechanics behind it, but from what i see conversation are not that mess. I suspect that even if VB utilize flat as it main display, each time a reply is made, it seems to be insert somewhere in the middle and not directly at the end of the conversation.

So even if the conversation seems to be linear (visually) the post are sort correctly in sequence. The only thing missing, is when i read it i'm not sure where one thread stop and the other start

See comment on the picture

[Dmacleo]

I would dump this software in a second if I had to deal with threaded again.

man I hate that function. I mean I have a vendetta against it.

http://youtu.be/7S8ivAWPsdg

[msg]

Dmacleo could you elaborate

[Dmacleo]

I hate threaded view.

if moved to that I will not renew.

pretty self explanatory.

[msg]

One other reason why display the conversation in thread can be useful.

I'm in a conversation that have roughly 60 pages with 20 post per page, and i look for the post I made in that conversation. In a thread display i can easily see the poster name because I look at the header only, In a flat view not sure how i can filter the post to display only mine and start reading from there.

[Cyrem]

Enforce on-topic discussion. Threaded invites off-topic discussion... which defeats the purpose of separate topics. You might as well make one topic "The Topic of Everything" and everyone can start their little off-topic threads within it.

[tenaki]

Apart from hating threaded topics they have or did have a nasty habit of taking over as the default view when people came in from google and the like. I was always getting messages or new topics saying "whats happened to the forum the posts are all wrong" and then having to explain how to get the normal topic view back

[msg]

Forget to mention that the conversation i was mentioning his here, in case you want to see what a long linear post looks like

http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/306966-download-member-map/

[Wolfie]

I don't like the threaded view. Not even when all the posts are shown but nested or indented to show what it's in response to. The only thing I miss is Linear+, which would show the first post of the topic on every page.

[msg]

Wolfie

Could you explain a little bit more how that Linear + will work, i wanted to be sure i understand correctly how it behave

[Wolfie]

Wolfie

Could you explain a little bit more how that Linear + will work, i wanted to be sure i understand correctly how it behave

Imagine your first post in this topic, being displayed above the rest of the posts on each page, with a little gap underneath (so it's not attached). It was a view I would use and it helps to remind the viewer what the original post said/was about. It was removed in 3.2.0 and of the different topic viewing options, I believe that was the best one. The only drawback would be if the original post was extremely long, which would then make each page very long (first post + the replies on that page).

Here's an example of it, but from the 2.3.x series of IP.Board.

" alt="thread_linear_23.png">

(Excuse the name being 'thread' instead of 'topic', that naming isn't my doing.)

[msg]

Imagine your first post in this topic, being displayed above the rest of the posts on each page, with a little gap underneath (so it's not attached). It was a view I would use and it helps to remind the viewer what the original post said/was about. It was removed in 3.2.0 and of the different topic viewing options, I believe that was the best one. The only drawback would be if the original post was extremely long, which would then make each page very long (first post + the replies on that page).

Here's an example of it, but from the 2.3.x series of IP.Board.

" alt="thread_linear_23.png">

(Excuse the name being 'thread' instead of 'topic', that naming isn't my doing.)

OK yes that would be a nice option, especially for those who read from the last post expecting to have the solution to the question answer in the main topic :-)

For long post that would be real easy ( I guess) to just redesign other's post pages header ( does is sound English??) to display only the section of the original post that match the poster's avatar height and add a scroll bar on the side, or a pull corner if need to reference.

So the title of the post could be change to how to make long conversation easier to understand. How can someone from the outside look at 60 pages (1200 posts) and understand and grasp the whole conversation direction.

I saw some tech blog having this feature where if you do not reply or quote a existing post, after a delay of if X amount OR if no quote is attach to a post, the post is mark has hide and you need to hit a small plus sign. to the the whole comment.

While writing i just realize that IPS could introduce quote weight concept . meaning each time you quote a post, the parent gets a +1 weight. The more weight the more everything relate to the original post will be bring forward using visual schema.

The quote weight is always add ( transfer) to the total of the parent.

So if you have quote in cascade, let's 5, the lats quote will have +1, but the parent post will have +5. This way you can have a starting point to help remove that "pro-linear" seems to want avoid... noise. Anything below a certain weight will be collapse to a « ( turn it by 90 deg. so it point downward) sign with only the name of the poster , the date and the title only if the title of the post is different form the original topic.

Anyone has suggestion to help read long post?

[Wolfie]

OK yes that would be a nice option, especially for those who read from the last post expecting to have the solution to the question answer in the main topic :-)

For long post that would be real easy ( I guess) to just redesign other's post pages header ( does is sound English??) to display only the section of the original post that match the poster's avatar height and add a scroll bar on the side, or a pull corner if need to reference.

For the first page, I'd say to show the first post per usual. After that, maybe something like how it used to be, but showing up to maybe 1,000 characters (not counting markup tags), with a button to click to load up the rest of the post if anything has been trimmed out. So if it's a very lengthy post, it will reduce load time, but the reader still has the option to view it all.