Removal of $15 Domain Change

[whitetigergrowl]

I don't understand why there is a $15 domain name change fee and why you can only change it once every 6 months free. It doesn't cost IPB anything for me to change my domain name. To me this is the equivalent of an ATM fee when you withdraw money, except in this case from your own bank.

For those worrying about fraud or anything else, as long as only one domain is tied to that license it shouldn't change anything. 

So yeah, this is one thing I don't understand, see it as nothing more than a money grab from IPB, and serves no real benefit to the consumer and serves no benefit to IPB other than financially. IPB is the only forum software that I see that does this. I may be missing one, but most don't charge to change the domain. 

Charging twice a year if you want to keep downloading things and keep certain features of your forum going is expensive enough. But if you decide to change your domain for any reason, now it costs you an extra $15 for literally no reason other than for the sake of changing it. If some are still worried about potential fraud or hijacking or something, other things could be put into place to prevent it. 

This I think is probably one reason people go more to Xenforo and others is because of this. Some people change domain names often while they struggle to find something that works for them. With them you don't get charged to change a domain. Period. You can renew today, then in 5 days or a month or 3 months if you choose to change your domain you simply change it. You don't get charged $15 every time you change it. 

This is a hindrance. It serves no tangible benefit other than to make money. IPB never did it for years with no problems. But in recent years started to. And considering how much people already pay for renewals, I don't think it's too much to ask to remove the $15 fee. Period. 

It's literally one of the most pointless fees I've seen on here. I love IPB, but that is one thing that absolutely needs to go. No one is handling the domain change other than the consumer. Unless customer service needs to handle it, there should be no fee for it. I'm literally getting charged just to change my domain. Absolutely insanity. 

And like I said prior, if some think it's a way to prevent fraudulent actions, there are plenty of other ways to do that. As well, after the 6 months your domain would be open to be changed anyways which changes nothing in regards to possible fraud. 

So yeah, it's really gotta go. It's just a pure money grab and is something no one else does. So what's the logical reason for it here? Costs keep going up, as forum popularity keeps going down. I don't think those 2 will go hand in hand very well. So we need to be mindful of things like that this are really pointless fees and serve to benefit no one other than IPB.

Edited August 30, 2020 by whitetigergrowl

[Daddy]

I believe this measure is in place to prevent users from having multiple installs with one license. For example, I can install the software on multiple sites and use the same license to install updates while only having one license.

[Dean_]

I’ve never met anyone that needs to change a domain every 6 months let alone every couple of months... It really doesn’t make sense. Be sure on what you want to do and not give up on something because it’s not working.

Sorry, but for once I side with IPS, it’s a preventative measure to insure piracy concerns as explained on the page.

[whitetigergrowl]

1 hour ago, Deathicated said:

I believe this measure is in place to prevent users from having multiple installs with one license. For example, I can install the software on multiple sites and use the same license to install updates while only having one license.

It literally doesn't prevent anything. I can still have the one forum software using the one domain on several different domains if I wanted. The only thing it shows me is an error about the license. It doesn't cripple the forum or anything to any extent that makes it unusable. And for those smart enough, they could get rid of the error message too if they so wanted. It's not like there aren't pirated copies of it out there regardless. Or they could just leave the message about the license and not care. It's literally almost no different than if you let your license right out. 

And like I mentioned, no other forum software creator I've seen does this. Not VB. Not Xenforo. Not even the free ones. You can't tell me things are better for those forum makes in terms of piracy or preventing multiple installs because they don't charge that $15 fee.  It's not. 

59 minutes ago, Dean_ said:

I’ve never met anyone that needs to change a domain every 6 months let alone every couple of months... It really doesn’t make sense. Be sure on what you want to do and not give up on something because it’s not working.

Sorry, but for once I side with IPS, it’s a preventative measure to insure piracy concerns as explained on the page.

I have. And all you have to do is look at the list of forums people have posted here that have started then stopped and they started something new.

As everyone knows the forum market is a b*tch to get into right now and actually have your forum go anywhere or do anything. So people try different things. Different names, themes, ideas, etc. in hopes of capturing something. Anything. I don't know of many people either that are willing to pay for a web host then keep a dead forum but keep paying for something no one is interested in using. So they change it up. Sometimes simply changing the domain and name of the site. 

And just because something doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it doesn't apply to others. And the fact you think it's a preventative measure in piracy concerns, you're wrong. It's literally had ZERO effect on piracy. None. Period. No clue why you think it changes anything in regards to piracy. It doesn't. I can still easily find the latest versions of IPB on pirated forums. Although I have a legit license, I still look to see. And it's out there. 

Things like this hinder people wanting to use forum software. They literally dump more money into it than they will ever get out of it. Literally almost nickel and dimed to death. IPB charges you twice a year to be able to download and use certain forum functions.  Sure you don't have to pay to renew, then you lose the ability to download plug-ins and certain forum features on your forum on top of that. This is one reason social media has taken over. Very low overhead costs. Very low long term costs. With forums costs seem to be going up just to keep using the same software you used 20 years ago except now with a new coat of paint and a few new features. 

Then if you decide to change the domain because you found a better name, or want to try something different, within 6 months that's another $15. Let alone all of the money you may have to spend on plug-ins if you want to have a forum that has more features and functions. And let's not forget the cost of web hosting amongst other things. Only to have 5 people show up on your forum and if you're lucky 1 person even says much of anything. No matter how much work you put into it.

This is literally one of the most pointless charges by IPB. Literally. 

Explain how piracy is so bad with IPB they have to charge you to change your url if you want to change it for any reason in 6 months. But NO other forum software does that and has any less of a problem with piracy than IPB.  The fact piracy is used as an excuse for the charge is laughable at best. It's literally had zero effect.

So explain to me exactly how it's stopped IPB piracy. It hasn't. Explain to me how it does anything other than cost the forum owner more money if they choose to change the url for any reason in 6 months. 

Because until you can show me it's stopped piracy with IPB, the charge is a nickel and dime and serves zero benefit to the consumer. And until you can show me how it's made things better for the forum owner versus not getting charged for it on Xenforo, VB, and well, pretty much every other forum software maker and not getting charged for it on them has made things worse for the forum owner, your argument is no longer valid.

I'll be waiting for you to show me the benefit of it. Show actual examples of how it's better to be charged for it with IPB, and not any other forum software. It's nothing more than a domain change that's tied to that one domain. Not multiple ones. I can still download the software for that domain and use it across multiple domains. How did that stop piracy. How did that change anything? It didn't. Period.

So the latest version is still pirated, nulled, etc. I've seen it out there.

But I get charged to change a domain name within 6 months. Weird how for years there was no problem not charging for it. But then you're told it's for your benefit and you go along with it. 🤦‍♂️

Edited August 30, 2020 by whitetigergrowl

[Dean_]

2 hours ago, whitetigergrowl said:

Sure you don't have to pay to renew, then you lose the ability to download plug-ins and certain forum features on your forum on top of that. This is one reason social media has taken over. Very low overhead costs. Very low long term costs. With forums costs seem to be going up just to keep using the same software you used 20 years ago except now with a new coat of paint and a few new features. 

That I agree with 100%, having my licence run out and I can’t download updates via market place to which I paid for. I want that over turned and that’s next on my list to talk about on here.

I currently help run and maintain a site that’s been around for 20 years. We do well with memberships and it keeps us a float, along with shows. Times have certainly changed from when we started. I recently started a new forum to trial it out and FB has certainly taken it over. I’ve seen one guy build a group in a space of 3 months (over lockdown) and thrive without him putting any money into it. But what he has done is create some stickers, and other such things and sell them. He also now has two sponsors. I admit I’ve already put a couple hundred in my new site and only got back 25 back through an affiliate programme... So I see your frustrations and points that you’ve explained, but yet I still don’t see an issue on the domain, however I do understand what you’re saying.

2 hours ago, whitetigergrowl said:

It's nothing more than a domain change that's tied to that one domain. Not multiple ones. I can still download the software for that domain and use it across multiple domains. How did that stop piracy. How did that change anything? It didn't. Period

You wouldn’t be able to install it at all on another domain as the servers communicate. Nor run any sort of updates either. 

Like a lot of software you buy one licence for one installation. Sometimes the vendors offers deals/packages. I know IPS do offer discounts throughout the year to buy new licences at a discount (usually 10% off).

 

 

[Askancy]

3 hours ago, whitetigergrowl said:

Explain how piracy is so bad with IPB they have to charge you to change your url if you want to change it for any reason in 6 months. But NO other forum software does that and has any less of a problem with piracy than IPB.  The fact piracy is used as an excuse for the charge is laughable at best. It's literally had zero effect.

So, we create maybe 5 or more, all licensed nulled and we only buy one license. And as you need support, downloads from the marketplace and updates, you switch your license from forum to forum...

If I change domain several times every 6 months, take a break and think about what you really want to accomplish.

 

[whitetigergrowl]

3 hours ago, Dean_ said:

That I agree with 100%, having my licence run out and I can’t download updates via market place to which I paid for. I want that over turned and that’s next on my list to talk about on here.

I currently help run and maintain a site that’s been around for 20 years. We do well with memberships and it keeps us a float, along with shows. Times have certainly changed from when we started. I recently started a new forum to trial it out and FB has certainly taken it over. I’ve seen one guy build a group in a space of 3 months (over lockdown) and thrive without him putting any money into it. But what he has done is create some stickers, and other such things and sell them. He also now has two sponsors. I admit I’ve already put a couple hundred in my new site and only got back 25 back through an affiliate programme... So I see your frustrations and points that you’ve explained, but yet I still don’t see an issue on the domain, however I do understand what you’re saying.

You wouldn’t be able to install it at all on another domain as the servers communicate. Nor run any sort of updates either. 

Like a lot of software you buy one licence for one installation. Sometimes the vendors offers deals/packages. I know IPS do offer discounts throughout the year to buy new licences at a discount (usually 10% off).

 

 

Wrong. I've done it before changing the domain url. Running it on a different domain isn't a problem. You just get an error saying the license in use is not valid for that site, at worst usually that only admins see. 

You should be able to reset it, with some precautions, without having to pay anything extra. There simply is no tangible benefit to paying for a domain change. Period. It puts more money in IPBs pockets, and doesn't protect you from anything any more than if there was no fee. On top of that. if it really helps control piracy and running multiple copies on different domains, then why aren't the other forums doing it. It's not like they don't have a piracy problem too. 

The irony is I did a quick google search and found pirated copies of the current software and other plug-ins. So clearly someone wanting to change their domain once, twice, or multiple times in 6 months had zero benefit to stopping that from happening.

3 hours ago, Askancy said:

So, we create maybe 5 or more, all licensed nulled and we only buy one license. And as you need support, downloads from the marketplace and updates, you switch your license from forum to forum...

If I change domain several times every 6 months, take a break and think about what you really want to accomplish.

 

Again wrong. Not everyone is you. Everyone has different reasons, purposes, and desires. I can sit down and think of what I want to accomplish and still have it go bust numerous times in less than 6 months. The forum market right now isn't very lucrative and it's hard to compete against social media. So putting up reasons for people to NOT use them, or to price yourself out of the market isn't very smart either. It doesn't matter what their reasons are. What matters is the blatant nickel and dimeing for something that simply put has no reason to cost money. Period. 

All I have to do is look at the long list of forums people have promoted on this site in the last 6 months that are no longer there. That should tell you everything you need to know. Heck one recently promoted his IPB forum, and when I visited it, it had switched to Xenforo. Literally less than a week or so later. 

As well, if I wanted to download a nulled version of the current software and various plug-ins, while it's not encouraged, it completely bypasses all fees and costs. Including the domain change fee which is utterly pointless and useless. Again, why is IPB the ONLY one doing it in regards to forums and they aren't even as popular right now as say something like Xenforo? I prefer IPB, but there are times with things like this it's rather hindering and literally pricing me out of their market.

I could go to Xenforo, which I know has less in the terms of features right now, but pay 1 fee per year for upgrades and access to downloads (rather than twice with IPB) and change my domain name multiple times if I wanted to, with no extra cost. And it protected them and me just as much from piracy as paying for it with IPB has. 

When was the last time you paid for a domain name change with another forum provider like Xenforo, VB, Vanilla, Burning Board, etc.? Think about it. I've seen literally zero benefit for paying for a domain name change. None. Unless someone can give some examples that have happened to them where paying that $15 domain name change fee benefited them?

Edited August 31, 2020 by whitetigergrowl

[jaeitee]

2 hours ago, whitetigergrowl said:

Wrong.

Period.

Again wrong.

It doesn't matter what their reasons are

So glad you're open to the opinions of others.

Personally I think it's too cheap, and should be increased 🙂

[Lindy]

Good to see you around, Tiger. That is very... passionate feedback on the URL reset fee. Although it's been addressed before, I'm happy to do so again. 

Firstly, prior to limiting the resets, it was very easy to "license hop" - that is, swap URLs around, obtain support, upgrades, etc., swap them around and repeat, etc. So, while not necessarily the original intended purpose, it does help keep the honest... honest in the same sort of way that a deadbolt keeps the undetermined at bay--obviously, the determined/committed can kick the door in. 

Secondly, in many cases, there actually are costs incurred with fresh installations by way of support. Frequent URL resets are a byproduct of tossing ideas around, deleting, reinstalling, configuring and deleting. Quite often, there are numerous support requests involved and unfortunately, often the same questions/concerns over and over again on each reinstall. The spirit of tech support provided is based on a single installation and not so much to support 'tinkering' and perpetual reinstallation support. The fee, when applied, helps (in a small way) offset some of that overhead.

I would hope a number of customers here would attest to the fact that we will generally just update the URL for you if you contact us - especially if you're just changing the URL on an existing installation. In cases such as those described above, the fee may apply. 

I'm sorry you consider it a barrier, but I can assure you, we're not funding private yachts from license reset fees. 🙂 Even with license reset fees, we frankly still typically tend to have a net loss when it comes to many of those (not all, but many) that kind of toss ideas out to see what sticks. You've been around a long time (for which we're appreciative!) - you're a power user (who still sees us as a 'forum provider') and you won't likely require much support throughout your tinkering journey. That's not usually the case here. 

Just drop us a note if you find you need to change the URL on file. We're generally able to help if that's all you need. 

Thanks for the feedback. 

[InvisionHQ]

If there's one thing I can't stand is someone using blackmail as a lever to assert one’s rights.

I needed this service a couple of times and all I had to do was open a ticket.
It seems quite clear to me that this "fee" was put as a deterrent for those who abuse of the service not for "normal" requests.

 

[CoffeeCake]

6 hours ago, Lindy said:

I would hope a number of customers here would attest to the fact that we will generally just update the URL for you if you contact us - especially if you're just changing the URL on an existing installation. In cases such as those described above, the fee may apply. 

Just hopping in to share that when we were first began testing IPS as the path to migrating away from vBulletin, we made an error in setting up our testing environment as our production environment by not including the -TESTINSTALL string in the license. This led to us getting into a predicament where our license was incorrectly associated with the wrong URL. I think this may have actually happened more than once. We test a lot.

We opened a support request and IPS changed the URL as a courtesy for us without charge. I understand the need for a deterrent. While I most certainly don't always agree with decisions or directions IPS takes, this is one where I think they've done right. I would generally agree that the process of documenting and guiding support requests for this could be a bit more transparent. I'd encourage the team to consider adopting language in the install docs or client area that explains that IPS is willing to consider waiving fees at their discretion in instances where you reach out via support channels and help explain why you're doing something that would not often be done in practice.

[The Old Man]

I've always thought that if you put in a ticket and explained the circumstances for a domain change then IPS would/should look fairly and reasonably at it. $15 is a bit cheeky I suppose, and I never agree with anything that penalises the majority because of the actions of a small minority. If the account and admin is in good standing, why not allow such a request? It's called good customer service and it's the kind of thing that you remember and judge other providers by.

That said, IPS don't always get it right, for instance a couple of years ago they insisted I buy a new Pages licence for one of my existing community sites when I already had an unused Pages license I wanted to reactivate (for a site on which I'd disabled the Pages app some time ago), and it was just sitting there unused; they wouldn't let me move it from one active licensed site to another. I've been with the founders since Ikonboard and stayed with them, that's loyalty. That's just not right. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't, and if you have multiple site licenses it is only fair and reasonable that you might want to try make an app work on a different community site where it may be better utilised or do better. I went ahead in the end and bought a new Pages license but it left a bitter taste. That reminds me, I suppose I really should start using it!

Escalating the Marketplace fees to 'Apple rates' whilst was wrong but they did hold off because of the financial impacts of pandemic which was positive. IMHO being able to advertise your product as having a long established and reputable third party developer system is worth its wait in gold, it might not break even but holistically, surely it's a positive loss leader.

On the other side of the coin, Lindy recently allowed me to use Marketplace credit I'd saved up to renew a full suite license renewal, that's good customer service.

[christopher-w]

On 9/1/2020 at 8:33 AM, The Old Man said:

've always thought that if you put in a ticket and explained the circumstances for a domain change then IPS would/should look fairly and reasonably at it. $15 is a bit cheeky I suppose, and I never agree with anything that penalises the majority because of the actions of a small minority. If the account and admin is in good standing, why not allow such a request? It's called good customer service and it's the kind of thing that you remember and judge other providers by.

Indeed.

And adding to the various arguments against this charge, and addressing those that question the need to frequently change a domain name, I'd say don't second guess the motives or needs of others, especially when folks are needing to find a niche in a sector of the market increasingly dominated by FB & Co.

[The Old Man]

I'm often reminded of the facility to limit the number of name changes in the AdminCP. The same methodology could apply to domain name changes, to limit people obviously extracting the golden fluid but support 2-3 changes a year.

[Ptilly]

On 8/30/2020 at 4:33 PM, Dean_ said:

Sure you don't have to pay to renew, then you lose the ability to download plug-ins and certain forum features on your forum on top of that. This is one reason social media has taken over. Very low overhead costs. Very low long term costs. With forums costs seem to be going up just to keep using the same software you used 20 years ago except now with a new coat of paint and a few new features. 

That right there is the deal breaker. I was going to renew my IPS license to switch things up a bit from XenForo, but after I saw that I'm not able to purchase and download new add-ons for my forums after the license expires in six months, I decided to stick with my XenForo installation. The greed from the IPS team is real and I can't believe it's come to this.

[Square Wheels]

On 8/30/2020 at 2:41 PM, whitetigergrowl said:

Sure you don't have to pay to renew, then you lose the ability to download plug-ins and certain forum features on your forum on top of that. This is one reason social media has taken over. Very low overhead costs. Very low long term costs. With forums costs seem to be going up just to keep using the same software you used 20 years ago except now with a new coat of paint and a few new features. 

This is frustrating.  I like IPS and don't plan to move.  Now I will be more careful of the add-ons I buy and will likely try to move closer to a stock forum.  I have not updated my IPS license in a while since there have not been any updates in a while.  What would I have been paying for?  

Now I'll be trapped into paying for IPS just to be able to download an add-on.  Not going to happen.  This will likely hurt developers too.

[Dean_]

I know we're going off topic a little but can someone please confirm if we need an active licence in order to keep our 3rd party plugins and apps up to date?

As it was previously said by Lindy is that you only need to own a licence:

On 6/7/2016 at 4:51 PM, Lindy said:

You don't need an active license to use the marketplace. You do need a license though. Are you suggesting opening to the marketplace to people who have never had a license? Other than piracy, what would be the reasoning behind allowing that?

Obviously this next quote is a few years older now:

On 10/16/2012 at 2:32 PM, bfarber said:

For the record - we updated our marketplace several months ago, and clients with expired licenses can download from our marketplace now. As Mark pointed out, the OP was talking about a file in our marketplace that has a renewal price, and those files become inaccessible if you do not renew them.

If this has or does change, no one is going to buy from the marketplace anymore, and they will go straight to the developer. Due to the recent change and having the MP within ACP, how will it now work?

@Lindy Sorry to tag you, but would please confirm this?

[Ptilly]

11 minutes ago, Dean_ said:

I know we're going off topic a little but can someone please confirm if we need an active licence in order to keep our 3rd party plugins and apps up to date?

As it was previously said by Lindy is that you only need to own a licence:

Obviously this next quote is a few years older now:

If this has or does change, no one is going to buy from the marketplace anymore, and they will go straight to the developer. Due to the recent change and having the MP within ACP, how will it now work?

@Lindy Sorry to tag you, but would please confirm this?

Here's what I found earlier today: 

 

[Dean_]

10 minutes ago, Ptilly said:

Here's what I found earlier today: 

 

Thanks, that what I was trying to find...

I was going to make a separate topic, but since we're all talking about it here. This isn't a good move if it's true? I thought it was a glitch on my side and I left it as was renewing anyway.

Not to be 'that person' but if you force us to have an active licence in order to keep 3rd party apps/plugins up to date OR purchase then, I won't be using the marketplace and will source the files outside like I do already with a couple that I own. This has its own inherent problems, but I only buy from long standing developers.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Dean_
Corrected.

[Ptilly]

1 minute ago, Dean_ said:

Thanks, that what I was trying to find...

I was going to make a separate topic, but since we're all talking about it here. This isn't a good move if it's true? I thought it was a glitch on my side and I left it as was renewing anyway.

Not to be 'that person' but if you force us to have an active licence in order to keep 3rd party apps/plugins up to date. I won't be using the marketplace and will source the files outside like I do already with a couple that I own. This has its own inherent problems, but I only buy from long standing developers.

It's not just to keep them up to date, it's also to purchase them. Once they remove this requirement I'll be renewing my license, but until then I'm being forced to stick with XenForo.

[Square Wheels]

5 minutes ago, Dean_ said:

Not to be 'that person' but if you force us to have an active licence in order to keep 3rd party apps/plugins up to date OR purchase then, I won't be using the marketplace and will source the files outside like I do already with a couple that I own.

 

 

Sometimes I can't see an obvious solution right in front of me.  I will use this option also.  Xenforo is the alternative, and while I like their software, the change would be huge for me.

[Dean_]

Just now, Square Wheels said:

Sometimes I can't see an obvious solution right in front of me.  I will use this option also.  Xenforo is the alternative, and while I like their software, the change would be huge for me.

Yup, while I've done my best, I can't always afford the 6 months renewal on top of everything else. Sometimes, I leave my licence expired for a few months. I did this recently, until I had enough and wanted to help test 4.5 beta. But time will once again be upon me to renew and I know I'll have to wait awhile before I can.

[Square Wheels]

5 minutes ago, Dean_ said:

Yup, while I've done my best, I can't always afford the 6 months renewal on top of everything else. Sometimes, I leave my licence expired for a few months. I did this recently, until I had enough and wanted to help test 4.5 beta. But time will once again be upon me to renew and I know I'll have to wait awhile before I can.

One of my sites currently makes enough money to pay for my server and software, but that's it.  I have a million post hobby site.  That one causes me to increase my server costs every now and then.  Adding on regular update fees for all three is not an option at this point.  My licenses expired in April.  There have not been updates until now so no reason to update.  

Hopefully all my add-ons will be available outside the Marketplace. 

[ahc]

I had an inactive license for over a year because there was nothing significant enough to warrant the extra $190 we would have spent.

I was able to purchase and download files from the marketplace the entire time right up until 4.5 Beta 1 came out. All of a sudden I was locked out of things I had just paid for or renewed. I sent in a ticket and was told that this was always the intended behavior and that if I had access to purchase, renew, and download files before with an inactive license, it was in error.

So.. which one is the truth?

[DesignzShop]

I dropped a forum I had for 13 years, I asked IPB to move that license url to another url that also was using a IPB second license. Then I used the 2nd url on a different domain because it was a full suite, they did, no charge,, I have never had a issue with this probably because I don't switch urls often at all. Point is they were great and done this a couple of years back when this policy of a 15.00 charge was in effect. 

Second, I never understood why people want to let their license overlap. I don't think I ever let that happen for myself in all the years I've been here. I always wanted the latest version so I could keep my sites safe with current bug fixes and security updates. My members and my investment meant that much to me.