Woodsman Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 Woodsman its nice for ips that you like something like that for me it is still the same fact - i bought something and it is refused. the company does not lose here any cent but maybe one client after an other or for long time renewal charges because clients, (sorry we are no clients if we not pay You are the same as a visitor) are angry as well ips postet no announcements anymore just inside client area where members second class cannot look on it customer care is and was a big lack here - ips is good if you need no assitance from them the community of member is really good m@t I got what you are saying right from the start and I do feel the pain you are expressing because it has happened to me as well not all that long ago. But the facts still remain. We as clients and clients removed all read and agreed to the same terms of service. As for lack of customer care I have to disagree. During my down time as a member the staff still worked with me on issues as well as keeping a professional mindset with my timing issue as far as renewals were concerned. People need to remember Professionalism bigots Professionalism. Rants will only bigot a bandwagon of other rants. You yourself agreed to the same terms as the rest of us knowing full well that if you choose not to renew, by IPS policy the last upgrades will be removed and all client access and privileges temporarily suspended. Let me ask you this. Is it fair for a licensed driver to get fined for driving on an expired license? The driver knows he or she driving without a legitimate license. It comes down to Policy and licensee responsibility. It is our responsibility to keep these licenses active. When I lost my privileges as with many others we knew what the outcome would be. So there was no reason to complain. It is nothing personal against you (us) from IPS's point of view just business. Have you ever purchased a software where a couple of months later the site was closed and no way of getting support or your money back? Better yet.... Have you ever purchased a software where in the next upgrade they forced you to pay full price again?
riven3d Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I dont know if vbulletin is the same way they used to be, but I know that they had a policy with their versions, if you did not renew your license you couldnt use their software at all. be happy they allow you to use what you pay for. i dont expect them to give me access to download to something i am no longer a client for.if your license is expired then you are not considered a client and lose permission to download is it fair to give you something that your not a client anymore to get?kinda like what woodsman has said above.Have you ever bought something from the store and installed it and then later the disc brake? do you expect them to give you another disc? as I know of several times I was SOL and had to go rebuy the game again so I could keep playing. This is why I go for games on steam or games that dont require the disc to play now.you get what you pay for, you knew when you purchased that you were able to download at will and get FREE upgrades until the license expires, then you either pay to renew to keep it or you dont renew and you lose it.I download each update no matter if I am going to use it and I back it up so I still have it and if I lose it I still have a backup copy.Its like they tell us about our forums, BACKUP BACKUP BACKUP!!!. if you didnt download it while you could then that is your own fault. The TOS is very clear on how things run here.
Misi Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I dont know if vbulletin is the same way they used to be, but I know that they had a policy with their versions, if you did not renew your license you couldnt use their software at all.That was for their "Leased" license only.(One year lease)With an expired "Owned" license you can still download and install any version of their software up to the date when your support expired.
riven3d Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 never was a customer of theirs but still at least we dont have those types here and what you are doing is leasing the license for 6 months
media Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Ever buy software online and get offered "Download Protection" as an extra fee? Some places let you download it once and then after that you're out of luck if you lose the zip.They are doing business like a rich capitalist business man...! lol!
Management Lindy Posted June 9, 2015 Management Posted June 9, 2015 There are pros and cons to every licensing and business model. We don't make you purchase the software all over again with each major version and we don't even force you to uninstall the software when your license has expired. That is, however, where we feel our goodwill ends on an expired license. I'm sorry for your frustration and that you missed the opportunity to obtain the software before your license expired, but that was not a failure on the part of IPS.
Misi Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 There are pros and cons to every licensing and business model.Removing unnecessary cons makes a product better.
Management Lindy Posted June 9, 2015 Management Posted June 9, 2015 Removing unnecessary cons makes a product better. How does offering incentives to not renew a product license make said product better? Interest piqued.
Misi Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 How does offering incentives to not renew a product license make said product better? Interest piqued. I don't get it, please explain. Pros for IPS: good for this and that and... Cons for IPS: They lock out their customers from some forums if their renewal for support expired. They don't let their customers download the product they paid for if their renewal for support expired. Their competitors(such as vBulletin and XenForo) let their customers download the product even with an expired renewal for support. #1 Remove those cons, they cost you nothing and your customers might renew for support. #2 Stick to your rules and they might leave forever. Cost you nothing. #1 and #2 has the same result, cost nothing for Invision but only in my humble opinion #1 is a better option.
opentype Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 They lock out their customers from some forums if their renewal for support expired.They don't let their customers download the product they paid for if their renewal for support expired.Yes, those are the mentioned incentives which might convince you to keep your license active. You are not forced to, but there are benefits for which it might be worth it.#1 Remove those cons, they cost you nothing and your customers might renew for support.And there is the catch 22. You propose a license model with much fewer incentives to renew and still you say that this would get people to renew.
IveLeft... Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 You buy software, you download it and keep a few backups, its pretty simple, as said above there are plenty of places that sell software and have "Download Protection" as an extra option, if you don't buy this or have a backup then your stuffed.....I have no problem with the IPS license model as it stands and think its fair
Management Lindy Posted June 9, 2015 Management Posted June 9, 2015 We don't have provisions in place to automatically generate downloads based on what you should have had access to at time of license expiration (and downloads are now dynamic) and to be blunt, putting development resources into making an effective backup service for expired license holders does not make much sense. "Extended download service" is not a new concept and is one many, including Microsoft, employ. As for "renewing for support" -- to be clear, you are renewing your license. One of the incentives happens to be technical support. Others include full features (hosted services such as chat and spam mitigation), upgrades, etc. It is certainly one's choice to not renew their license for any number of acceptable reasons. Likewise, that temporarily ends the relationship between yourself and IPS until which time you renew again. That may sound like a brash concept, but it's not unlike many other commercially driven-industries. If you buy a vehicle, the manufacturer is going to take care of you for a predefined period of time (the warranty) - if you opt not to renew (purchase extended warranty) and your base warranty expires, so too has the manufacturer's obligation to provide free resources to you. Personally, I would rather hear suggestions on how we can add more value for those that do wish to renew vs how to accommodate those that don't.
IveLeft... Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 We don't have provisions in place to automatically generate downloads based on what you should have had access to at time of license expiration (and downloads are now dynamic) and to be blunt, putting development resources into making an effective backup service for expired license holders does not make much sense. "Extended download service" is not a new concept and is one many, including Microsoft, employ. As for "renewing for support" -- to be clear, you are renewing your license. One of the incentives happens to be technical support. Others include full features (hosted services such as chat and spam mitigation), upgrades, etc. It is certainly one's choice to not renew their license for any number of acceptable reasons. Likewise, that temporarily ends the relationship between yourself and IPS until which time you renew again. That may sound like a brash concept, but it's not unlike many other commercially driven-industries. If you buy a vehicle, the manufacturer is going to take care of you for a predefined period of time (the warranty) - if you opt not to renew (purchase extended warranty) and your base warranty expires, so too has the manufacturer's obligation to provide free resources to you. Personally, I would rather hear suggestions on how we can add more value for those that do wish to renew vs how to accommodate those that don't. SuggestionTier discount system for long term license holders who always renew3 yr - 2% discount5 yr 5% discountetc etc
Day_ Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Personally, I would rather hear suggestions on how we can add more value for those that do wish to renew vs how to accommodate those that don't. Free 7 day cruise for us plus our partners round the caribbean with every renewal
Misi Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Free 7 day cruise for us plus our partners round the caribbean with every renewalDiving gear included for you and your partner, in case the boat named Invision would sink.
Pete T Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 I have got to ask the question did you read the web site BEFORE buying Invision Power Software ? "Our product licenses renew on a six month basis*, providing continued access to software, support, and services.If you do not renew on your expiration date, your products will continue to function. However, support, software downloads and additional services (such as the IPS Spam Monitor, and IPS Marketplace) will be unavailable until you renew.You can renew at any time without penalty to regain access to IPS services.The renewal cost we show on this page is what your renewal will be in 6 months based on the products you've chosen and the current renewal pricing."Taken direct on the site so clear show you need continue with payments IF you like accress to downloads or additional services.How more clear can that be ! really its like you moaning over item that made clear and simple to understand or IF you was so unsure they provide support BEFORE you buy using the Pre-Sales section on the forum or email the sales time again on the same page when click buy !.
m@t Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 There are pros and cons to every licensing and business model. We don't make you purchase the software all over again with each major version and we don't even force you to uninstall the software when your license has expired. That is, however, where we feel our goodwill ends on an expired license. I'm sorry for your frustration and that you missed the opportunity to obtain the software before your license expired, but that was not a failure on the part of IPS. What goodwill??????????the software is paid full this no cloud software or date limited ... The software is expensive enough ... If everything works and the company does a good job its ok to talk here about an failure is absolutley not ok to give benefits for long time clients would be good - to have satisfied clients you must take care of them and not refuse something what we are talking about is nothing where your company lose any money not one cent but clients are happy and renew also much more often for example i get from you IPS no info about current development of software - maybe there are in the meantime good updates or soon what would be a reason for reenew but you refuse the info - forum is not visible anymore
Management Lindy Posted June 10, 2015 Management Posted June 10, 2015 What goodwill??????????the software is paid full this no cloud software or date limited ... The software is expensive enough ... If everything works and the company does a good job its ok to talk here about an failure is absolutley not ok To be clear, you purchased a license to the software, you did not purchase the software. Some make you purchase a license and then cease use of the software if you don't renew the license. Others make you purchase a license and then start over again and repurchase with each major version (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc.) -- my comment was highlighting that we do neither. That, however, is where we draw the proverbial line. Just about everything else requires an active license and we go above and beyond to add value to active licenses. The failure I'm referring to, in this instance, was to not utilize your license while it was active. I do understand and appreciate that you're frustrated, however: 1) We did not block you from the client area or otherwise prevent you from accessing what you'd paid for prior to expiration - you had every opportunity to do so and it's inappropriate to now lambast IPS because you didn't. 2) This is not a new policy and the terms are quite clear from time of purchase. You've provided your feedback and we appreciate you taking the time to do so, but this has now turned into a dialogue. As such, please feel free to update your ticket or contact me directly with further concerns or frustration. I'm sorry if you misunderstood the terms of the license and the associated frustration and inconvenience. Hopefully we can work this out for you.
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