Hump Day: what are some of your community pain points?

[Jordan Miller]

Happy Hump Day. 

Creating a community has so many awesome benefits to your business, however there are certainly times where the going gets tough. Every community leader runs into pain points during their community building journey; it's totally normal (and even an expected part of the process).

A few of these pain points could include:

• Low engagement
• Lack of content
• Trouble finding good moderators
• Bringing an idea or concept to life

I know for me in my own community, one of my biggest hurdles is feeling like there's not enough time in the day (or year 😝) to accomplish all the things I want to. I think that's a good thing, but still... it's a difficult pill to swallow sometimes and that's OK. 

Feel free to share some struggles you're currently facing and perhaps myself & our community members can weigh in to help or offer some advice. 😀 

---

While I've got you, check out a list of fixes/updates made to the platform in the last seven days. Nicely done, team. 

Quote

- Fixed some issues with approving and deleting transactions for a deleted payment method.
- Added a new CORE REST endpoint to retrieve data from promoted content
- Added a new webhook which is fired when a content item is promoted.
- Added a new webhook which is fired when a member gets a warning.
- Added a new webhook which is fired when a content item gets marked as solved.
- Fixed an issue where it was possible to bypass the minimum tags requirement.
- Fixed downloading older file versions failing under specific circumstances.
- Added Sentiment Analysis stats charts
- Added a new CORE REST endpoint to retrieve data from promoted content.
- Fixed an issue where an IndexNow ping triggered via the AdminCP may have an incorrect key URL.
- Added comment details to the content react Data Layer event.

Our new version, 4.7, is out very soon. Stay tuned!

Looking forward to hearing from ya in the comments. 🩹 

[CheersnGears]

My pain points are largely in creating/editing articles.  I use Pages largely as a news and reviews page and the forums piggyback off of that.   I have no trouble finding content to create, for my niche it is a veritable firehose to stand in front of, but getting it created in Pages with the right format is tedious.

I'd love:

• a better method for placing pictures, setting alt text, setting captions.
• More options for what a gallery looks like when I place a link to one. See @opentype's SuperReviews as one example of what I'd like to do, but with the Gallery system.
• Multi-column formatting
• Some sort of widget or block system where I can place an Ad widget inline with the text.
• Compatibility with Grammerly - Seriously, it's a pain to write it in Word so the article gets checked with Grammerly and then cut-paste-format into Pages.

A lot of my slow-down with generating content.  There is so much of it everyday that I have to pick and choose, but getting it posted is painful.

I'd argue that the forum in IPS software is largely feature complete and any improvements would be just slightly incremental.  Pages, Gallery, Clubs, is where attention is sorely needed.

I said here many years ago that IPS has the potential to be the paid Wordpress beater if Pages was improved. I still see that potential.

[Jordan Miller]

12 minutes ago, CheersnGears said:

My pain points are largely in creating/editing articles.  I use Pages largely as a news and reviews page and the forums piggyback off of that.   I have no trouble finding content to create, for my niche it is a veritable firehose to stand in front of, but getting it created in Pages with the right format is tedious.

I'd love:

• a better method for placing pictures, setting alt text, setting captions.
• More options for what a gallery looks like when I place a link to one. See @opentype's SuperReviews as one example of what I'd like to do, but with the Gallery system.
• Multi-column formatting
• Some sort of widget or block system where I can place an Ad widget inline with the text.
• Compatibility with Grammerly - Seriously, it's a pain to write it in Word so the article gets checked with Grammerly and then cut-paste-format into Pages.

A lot of my slow-down with generating content.  There is so much of it everyday that I have to pick and choose, but getting it posted is painful.

I'd argue that the forum in IPS software is largely feature complete and any improvements would be just slightly incremental.  Pages, Gallery, Clubs, is where attention is sorely needed.

I said here many years ago that IPS has the potential to be the paid Wordpress beater if Pages was improved. I still see that potential.

Appreciate you weighing in. Is there a link you'd like to share to see what you're currently creating? 

I used to use the Articles feature, but ultimately started creating all the content within topics because, like you, there's just a lot of content that could be created. I tend to use Articles when I have more long-form stuff share. LMK!

[CheersnGears]

8 minutes ago, Jordan Miller said:

Appreciate you weighing in. Is there a link you'd like to share to see what you're currently creating? 

I used to use the Articles feature, but ultimately started creating all the content within topics because, like you, there's just a lot of content that could be created. I tend to use Articles when I have more long-form stuff share. LMK!

I use the option of Pages creating the Topics for comments to do two things at once.  Even with shorter stuff because there's the Article which I want/need to promote and the forums for the chatter about said article.  I am in several Press guilds and while I'm not published in MotorTrend or Car & Driver, I do rub elbows with them and would like my articles to look professional and not just a post on a forum.

I'll select some articles to share tomorrow.

[Davyc]

11 hours ago, Jordan Miller said:

Creating a community has so many awesome benefits to your business

@Jordan Miller You raise some interesting and valid points in your posts, but you always refer your attention to 'business' and forget that there are thousands of hobbyist clients who tend to get left out.  It may not be your intention to do so, but whenever you post something it always includes the word 'business'.  This may seem like nitpicking and IPS may be more focussed on business clients, but there are others who contribute to the IPS coffers.  It may be prudent to be more inclusive so those who created the foundation for IPS are not left feeling out.

To the point of your post.  As a hobbyist and someone who enjoys the experience of a forum based site (at present I get more of a kick from the creation aspect rather that the using thereafter) the drag of SM is the sore point when it comes to generating interest and contributors.  It's not that what we hobbyists do that may appear uninteresting, it's getting people off the SM wagon into a new environment.  There are probably numerous contributing factors that may lie at the root cause for this lack of interest, but that is the big issue for hobbyists.  Finding a niche that has not been covered already and has sufficient interest from a large number of people to get the ball rolling is really tough, and it doesn't matter what software is employed in a new venture; WordPress, IPS, Xenforo, Simple Machines, MyBB the list goes on.

Using SM to generate interest is a non-starter.  I use Twitter to promote my site and my Tweets drive traffic because what I post is apparently of interest, but it's a one way ticket because the people consume the content and then return to Twitter to comment on it rather than register and comment directly at the source.

I doubt that I'm alone in this parody of high interest on SM but low interest in registering at the source of the interest.  It's a symptom of the way people engage in this day-and-age.  It seems as though it's an effort to go through the short process of registering.  The other factor could also be that they are not interested in spending time learning how to use a system that may appear to be cumbersome to use on their mobile devices.

Sign of the times perhaps.

[Marc]

Its interesting, as Ive seen many sites launched on the back of social media. I think the key (and probably the biggest pain point) is finding that reason people want to move from social media and engage on your community. Working with social media platforms rather than seeing them as a competitor will always serve an advantage. After all, they are likely your single largest source of traffic, especially in the initial period of community building.

[marklcfc]

5 minutes ago, Marc Stridgen said:

Its interesting, as Ive seen many sites launched on the back of social media. I think the key (and probably the biggest pain point) is finding that reason people want to move from social media and engage on your community. Working with social media platforms rather than seeing them as a competitor will always serve an advantage. After all, they are likely your single largest source of traffic, especially in the initial period of community building.

You need to make it easier to share on social media, just simply being able to add meta images to topics and then that image showing in social media in the embedded link would help no end. Right now it just uses the default share icon for every topic, its so restricted.

Edited June 30, 2022 by marklcfc

[Davyc]

8 minutes ago, Marc Stridgen said:

Its interesting, as Ive seen many sites launched on the back of social media. I think the key (and probably the biggest pain point) is finding that reason people want to move from social media and engage on your community. Working with social media platforms rather than seeing them as a competitor will always serve an advantage. After all, they are likely your single largest source of traffic, especially in the initial period of community building.

I agree that they are a great source of potential users, but they are less likely to leave a platform where they have hundred, thousands, tens of thousands or even 100K followers to a site that has a handful.  I suppose it depends on whether what you are offering is devoid of interest on SM and you can corner a niche, but then that's the magic bullet in finding a niche that isn't covered on SM.  Basically, you need an audience to capture an audience.

To ignore SM media as a competitor and try to spin it as a source for your own site is a bit of a misnomer. Of course it's a competitor and a hugely successful and popular one, that's why they have millions of users and for someone wanting to capture their attention it's a ready-made platform.  To entice them away from that multitude you have to offer them something they can't find there.

I'm not saying that it's pointless trying, we have to try, but we also have to admit that it's an uphill struggle and not one that will resolve itself in a short space of time.

If you can find a niche that's not already covered (good luck on that one) in this day and age, then you may have something to work with.  Back in the day, before the rise of SM, opening a site would instantly attract registrations, which would quickly follow by more as the word spread.  I remember my first site, using the then free version of Invisionboard, I had hundred of members within a week.  Sadly, those days are gone.

I take my hat off to anyone opening up their own site now.  My advice to them would be to make sure you have acquired a small audience that are ready to join up and help you build something, hopefully, magnificent.  If you are starting up and have found a niche that no one else has yet cornered and there is a ready-made audience gagging to join up, then good on you.  But if you are starting up on your own no one has your back and you're treading on territory already well covered, then I feel for you.

Business models are a different breed from hobbyist models and if they are well-established with a good solid customer base then they may benefit from using the IPS suite.  Startups are less likely to do this, unless they are an online business and need a shopping site, as they will be spending all of their time, money and energy getting their business off the ground.  Perhaps this is why IPS are geared towards Corporates as they are already established.  I don't blame IPS and I don't lay any blame at the software - it's just the way of the world and it is ever evolving and businesses need to evolve with it or they will soon be left behind.

I would like to see the hobbyist market be more inclusive in communications as it is still a big part of IPS, probably more in numbers than in monetary terms, but we do like to be notice for our small contributions 🙂

 

[Marc]

21 minutes ago, marklcfc said:

You need to make it easier to share on social media, just simply being able to add meta images to topics and then that image showing in social media in the embedded link would help no end. Right now it just uses the default share icon for every topic, its so restricted.

Hope you have that in as a suggestion 😉 

 

[Sonya*]

36 minutes ago, Davyc said:

the people consume the content and then return to Twitter to comment on it rather than register and comment directly at the source.

Why should they register for comment if they comment without registering on Twitter? I would not. What are the advantages of being registered on your source? Except for being able to comment? Getting new stuff? You offer it on Twitter, so no reason. Being able to comment, they can do it straight away on Twitter without registering. 

So, what is their benefit? What can they do on your source that they cannot on social media? Please, do not see it as accuse, this is a real question, WHY should they? What is the added value for them to be registered with your source? 

39 minutes ago, Davyc said:

This may seem like nitpicking and IPS may be more focussed on business clients,

This is not IPS that focused. These are forums today. They are mostly built around products. Hobbies have mostly moved to social media. That's not IPS fault. That's just where the journey goes. Young people do not bother to learn something about servers, FTP, installing (paid!) platforms, maintenance, and so on. They just register on Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok and have the most things for free, starting at the moment where they have registered. 

Businesses are interested in forums to get their communities to support and advertise their products. Businesses have understood that they have little control over their "communities" on social media. So they move back. But hobbyist not. 

[Marc]

16 minutes ago, Sonya* said:

Young people........

I'm still young in my mind. Does that count?

[Sonya*]

Just now, Marc Stridgen said:

I'm still young in my mind. Does that count?

Show me your Insta and TikTok profile, then we'll see how young 😄 

[Marc]

34 minutes ago, Sonya* said:

Show me your Insta and TikTok profile, then we'll see how young 😄 

Not young enough to be doing all that dancing and taking pictures stuff, thats for sure 😄 

[marklcfc]

1 hour ago, Marc Stridgen said:

Hope you have that in as a suggestion 😉 

 

I have been suggesting it for years.

[Davyc]

59 minutes ago, Sonya* said:

So, what is their benefit? What can they do on your source that they cannot on social media? Please, do not see it as accuse, this is a real question, WHY should they? What is the added value for them to be registered with your source? 

You basically made my point that I was trying to convey.  The whole point of opening a forum site is so that people can join up and start talking to each other, but why would they when they can do that on SM and more easily?  Unless you are selling something unique (or even mainstream as better prices than your competitor) or offering something that adds a perceived value to your site, then the only other reason is to attract people and get them talking about your offerings.  If they can do that on SM media then you're in the wrong game and will lose every time unless you have a ready-made audience in the form of friends, or social group that are interested in helping you out.  Going in cold is not a good idea.

I do what I do because I enjoy the creation process, the challenge that each site opens up depending on what I am using.  It's for my benefit first and if someone else can benefit from my efforts that's great.  I have no expectations.  My whole point, and the reasoning behind it, is that SM is the main competitor against forums.  If some make something of it then good on them for their efforts, but I fear the majority come into the game with high expectations and then end up being disappointed.

I'm a member of several forums and the numbers on all of them, other than those few offering something tangible other than just being a place to hang out, have dismal numbers of registrants and of those who managed to get past the 100 registrations mark, only a handful now post.  It's sad but it's a fact that can't be ignored.  So thank you for your very honest and precise insight.

59 minutes ago, Sonya* said:

That's not IPS fault. That's just where the journey goes. Young people do not bother to learn something about servers, FTP, installing (paid!) platforms, maintenance, and so on. They just register on Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok and have the most things for free, starting at the moment where they have registered. 

Never said it was the fault of IPS, nor any other forum platform developers.  It is what it is.  It's not just about young people not wanting to get involved with the creation of a site and everything that goes hand in hand with that creation process.  They just can't be bothered with forums per-se.  They're too cumbersome on mobile devices, and that's what the young of today use more than any other device, and that's why SM is so successful because it works great on mobiles and is easy to use, that last point being the most pertinent.

I love forums, I was brought up on the old BBB's the forerunner to forums and have seen them become very successful points of entry for meaningful debates and discussions. Those days are, sadly, over - but that doesn't mean I am against forums. I love them, that's why I take the time to be here because it's one of the few places left that I can have meaningful discussions and debates with likeminded people.  There's no way in hell that we could do this on SM, and even less likely to happen using a mobile device.  I don't knock forums, but I do understand that they are not the first or even last bastion of social interaction as they once were.

Anyhow, we digging a hole here that has already been dug long ago.  My point in responding was that there are still a lot of hobbyists out there using IPS software and it would be nice to leave out the 'business' only references and be more inclusive of everyone because we all share in the pot and we all contribute to the pot.  I would also hazard a guess that more hobbyists visit this site than businesses 🙂

42 minutes ago, Marc Stridgen said:

I'm still young in my mind. Does that count?

That's about the only place I am young these days.  This getting old lark has nothing good going for it, it's an uphill struggle all the way downhill lol.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Davyc
spelling

[Bethanyrayne]

1 hour ago, Davyc said:

That's about the only place I am young these days.  This getting old lark has nothing good going for it, it's an uphill struggle all the way downhill lol.

That is so true. It makes me laugh when I hear people say that life begins at 40, 50 or 60 its just not true.

One thing young people should realise is the elderly are an invaluable source of life knowledge and experience and instead of being dismissive of them, listen to them.

In my experience you learn something 10 minutes after you needed to know it. The elderly already know so take advantage of the resource.

[Dll]

One of the pain points I see is this new found, deeper entrenchment of views and opinions that some people have gained in recent years - in part I assume it is related to social media and how easy it is to create an echo chamber for those views.

To give an example -  some people are so entrenched in their viewpoint that they don't really engage in a discussion other than to disagree with those who suggest anything different, restate their points and ultimately just go around in circles regardless of evidence, suggestions and information being fed back into the discussion by other participants. This can make discussions more fractious, and ultimately hurts engagement within them as people tire of the circular arguments being regurgitated and just step away from them. 

From a moderation perspective I think it's really tricky to know where to draw the line - different viewpoints and a bit of drama can add spice to debates, but when and how to stop that when it does start to become circular? And what to do about those with a tendency to take discussions in that direction? 

I'd be interested to know how other communities deal with this sort of thing.

[My Sharona]

9 hours ago, marklcfc said:

You need to make it easier to share on social media, just simply being able to add meta images to topics and then that image showing in social media in the embedded link would help no end. Right now it just uses the default share icon for every topic, its so restricted.

If you use the "Promote" feature, you have the ability to select your own image.

[marklcfc]

2 minutes ago, My Sharona said:

If you use the "Promote" feature, you have the ability to select your own image.

That's not what I want though, I want it like where it is a clickable image to take you to the topic.  But I want the image to be related to the topic each time.

 

[My Sharona]

5 minutes ago, marklcfc said:

That's not what I want though, I want it like where it is a clickable image to take you to the topic.  But I want the image to be related to the topic each time.

 

Understood. I was merely pointing out that you do have the ability to use a different image than the 'share' image.

 

Also, with the "Promote" function, it will automatically include a link to the thread/post.

Edited June 30, 2022 by My Sharona

[Dll]

@marklcfc - we use this, it uses the first image in the thread as the image used on shares. Maybe not the control you may want over the images, but we find it's pretty useful. 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Dll

[marklcfc]

35 minutes ago, Dll said:

@marklcfc - we use this, it uses the first image in the thread as the image used on shares. Maybe not the control you may want over the images, but we find it's pretty useful. 

I considered that before but most topics don't have uploaded images, and if they are can often not be relevant. I just want to set my own when I want to share it. Any chance of that @opentype

Edited June 30, 2022 by marklcfc

[Dll]

You could maybe just post an image into the threads you want to share, as a work round?

[CheersnGears]

22 hours ago, Jordan Miller said:

Appreciate you weighing in. Is there a link you'd like to share to see what you're currently creating? 

I used to use the Articles feature, but ultimately started creating all the content within topics because, like you, there's just a lot of content that could be created. I tend to use Articles when I have more long-form stuff share. LMK!

Some of my Reviews:
Mazda CX-5 Signature - A Little Something For Everyone

Quick Drive: 2020 Kia Telluride SX AWD

An opinion piece
The Family Sedan is Now on the Endangered Species List

 

[Jordan Miller]

12 hours ago, Davyc said:

@Jordan Miller You raise some interesting and valid points in your posts, but you always refer your attention to 'business' and forget that there are thousands of hobbyist clients who tend to get left out.  It may not be your intention to do so, but whenever you post something it always includes the word 'business'.  This may seem like nitpicking and IPS may be more focussed on business clients, but there are others who contribute to the IPS coffers.  It may be prudent to be more inclusive so those who created the foundation for IPS are not left feeling out.

You're right. Sorry about that. Definitely realize there are more facets to community other than business. Thanks for bringing that up. 🙏