KeyCaptcha and reCaptcha: Can they work together?

[Millipede]

reCaptcha has been defeated by bots because the solution is stored in the code.

I purposely didn't say "reCaptcha" as I know very well that bots can defeat it better than we humans can (!). I said "Captcha" as I was referring to KeyCaptcha and AreYouAHuman which, so far, the bots haven't yet been able to defeat.

[Rheddy]

Anti-spam measures are mostly effective against automated spambots, not against live spammers. I hate pessimists who always see this as a problem rather than as a solution. Negativity breeds chaos, and chaos breeds ...

The only thing you can do is take preventive measures designed to make it difficult for spammers to get through. I stand by my comment that anyone who uses just one method is just opening up their community to abuse by spammers, because that means they have only one "lock" to pick. The larger your community grows, the more spammers concentrate on your community to register and the more safeguards you will be forced to put in place, otherwise, you're setting yourself up for trouble.

It's sort of like owning a home, or renting a house in a neighborhood that prone to burglaries and theft. Do you use just a door lock? Or do you also use a deadbolt lock, chainlock and an alarm system? Nobody's method for protecting their community against spammers is a wrong one, but it is inadvisable to just rely on one single method.

Oh, and reCaptcha works perfect for me. And I don't have a problem with "swedish" characters appearing.

[KeyCAPTCHA]

ip mobile skin on ip 3.4 using keycaptcha does not work on any browser on android 2.3.3 have not tried any 3+ or higher (am rooted, can install anything) yet but the images won't move.

Hello Dave,

We checked KeyCAPTCHA on IP.Board 3.3.4 with mobile skin on android 2.x. So, it works. We will try to check it on IP.Board 3.4 asap.
Could you please specify your beta version of IP.Board 3.4 and the name of your mobile theme?

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

[KeyCAPTCHA]

Once I upgraded to iOS6, it wouldn't work anymore for me on iPad. So I changed to PlayThrough's AreYouAHuman and it works fine. Sorry..!

Hello Millipede,

1. We have a lot of correctly solved KeyCAPTCHAs on iPads with iOS6 in our statistics. Could you please specify the version of your iPad and the version and name of your browser?

2. Just for your information: Please try to solve AreYouAHuman by using Opera Mini on your mobile devices.

Opera takes around 19 percent of the mobile browser market: http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-ww-monthly-201110-201210

Best regards,

KeyCTCHA

[Matt]

Works great via mobile Safari:

[Rimi]

Works great via mobile Safari:

Can you enable it on here?

[Pete T]

KeyCaptcha wins with me because end day if got click the small icon get easy and readable Captcha then wasting time.. The amount times had refresh Captcha using the icon button new one few sites 5/6 if luck yes few been ok but KeyCaptcha no need to even refresh you move image to make them in right places, if need extra items for bots then have question / answers within your Admin turn on or use the Spam services that around to cut out unwanted ppl.

[KeyCAPTCHA]

Works great via mobile Safari

Hello Matt,

Thank you for your image :)

Best regards,
KeyCAPTCHA

[KeyCAPTCHA]

KeyCaptcha wins with me because end day if got click the small icon get easy and readable Captcha then wasting time.. The amount times had refresh Captcha using the icon button new one few sites 5/6 if luck yes few been ok but KeyCaptcha no need to even refresh you move image to make them in right places, if need extra items for bots then have question / answers within your Admin turn on or use the Spam services that around to cut out unwanted ppl.

Hello Pete T,

Thank you for your excellent feedback.

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

[Millipede]

Hello Millipede,

1. We have a lot of correctly solved KeyCAPTCHAs on iPads with iOS6 in our statistics. Could you please specify the version of your iPad and the version and name of your browser?

Looking back over old notes of mine from about a couple of months ago, I must apologise: it wasn't on iPad that it didn't work, it was when using Chrome. One of our advertisers wanted to join our forum but said they couldn't complete the puzzle and found it impossible. They were using Chrome but I don't know on what OS. I'm on a Mac and use Firefox but also have Chrome so I tried it for myself.

I too found it impossible to do on Chrome. Instead of the usual jigsaw puzzle, it presented me with a pile of lots of small blurry images, most of which I couldn't make out what they were, and which you were supposed to pile into appropriate columns - I think it may have had something to do with methods of transport, as I think I remember the columns having something to do with bits of cars and planes and trains but I really can't remember now. I tried to do the puzzle several times and then gave up as I simply couldn't make out what the little images were.

As that meant we were probably losing new members (and maybe advertisers), I had to replace KeyCaptcha with something else (PlayThru's AreYouAHuman puzzle games, as no way was I going to use reCaptcha). Up until then, I'd used KeyCaptcha on two forums for over a year and kept it updated direct from your site.

[Dmacleo]

Hello Dave,

We checked KeyCAPTCHA on IP.Board 3.3.4 with mobile skin on android 2.x. So, it works. We will try to check it on IP.Board 3.4 asap.
Could you please specify your beta version of IP.Board 3.4 and the name of your mobile theme?

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

3.4 beta5 with ip skin

using opera, firefox, dolphin browsers.

did NOT try the stock android browser.

was unable to actually move images.

this was on 2 different test domains as well as live domain.

[Aussie Cable]

I am so sick of members telling me how much they hate KeyCAPTCHA and ReCAPTCHA - so I have removed any CAPTCHA altogether.

With the integration of User Geolocation Restriction and Forum Spammer IP & Email Check via Stop Forum Spam, I dont have any issue's with spammers or the frustrations of entering a CAPTCHA for my members.

However this type of integration may not be useful for everyone if they accept registrations worldwide (and we do not).

I have not had any spam registrations/members register so far.

My $200 worth.

[Matt]

$200? Blimey. Inflation really is out of control.

[Matt Ball]

KeyCAPTCHA, do you have any comments as to the issues I addressed on the previous page? After all it is always good to make progress rather than just acknowledge people who like what you've done..

[Rheddy]

I don't know if UGL is the way to go. Many members of my community are from all over the world. Japan, Russia, U.K., Germany and so on. If I used that, it would severely restrict my community not to mention new members. But, Matt is right, $200? Inflation is really out of control. :lol:

[KeyCAPTCHA]

I too found it impossible to do on Chrome. Instead of the usual jigsaw puzzle, it presented me with a pile of lots of small blurry images, most of which I couldn't make out what they were, and which you were supposed to pile into appropriate columns - I think it may have had something to do with methods of transport, as I think I remember the columns having something to do with bits of cars and planes and trains but I really can't remember now. I tried to do the puzzle several times and then gave up as I simply couldn't make out what the little images were.

Hello Millipede,

It is a part of our security system. Those CAPTCHAs are displayed if our system detects abnormal count of actions from one IP. A share of these CAPTCHAs is less than one percent from millions of KeyCAPTCHAs which are processed every day.
At the same time all other 99+ percent of visitors see our ordinary jigsaw puzzles.

We really had some issue with our image classification CAPTCHAs on chrome some time ago. But now all issues are fixed.

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

[KeyCAPTCHA]

3.4 beta5 with ip skin

using opera, firefox, dolphin browsers.

did NOT try the stock android browser.

was unable to actually move images.

this was on 2 different test domains as well as live domain.

Hello Dave,

Does it work at https://www.keycaptcha.com/demo-free/ on your mobile devices?

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

[KeyCAPTCHA]

1 What about those without a mouse? (Keyboard only users)

2 If Javascript is disabled, the whole thing dies. reCaptcha handles this easily.

Hello Matt,

1. Who are those people? Are you talking about lynx's users? So, KeyCAPTCHA doesn't work in lynx. :)
2. Our system shows the message (for visitors who have disabled JavaScript) where we ask visitors to enable JavaScript.
All modern browsers can execute JavaScript and this feature is enabled by default.

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

[Marcher Technologies]

Hello Matt,

1. Who are those people? Are you talking about lynx's users? So, KeyCAPTCHA doesn't work in lynx. :smile:
2. Our system shows the message (for visitors who have disabled JavaScript) where we ask visitors to enable JavaScript.
All modern browsers can execute JavaScript and this feature is enabled by default.

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

2 raises a concern for me.

That is all well and good when we are talking a user.

The fact a bot can walk right past your CAPTCHA by merely disabling javascript is of no concern to you?

Additionally...

Where is this message shown?

Also may want to actually make your site degrade in *some* manner:

Asking the user to enable JavaScript if it has been purposefully disabled for specific functionality to work is one thing(I prefer to degrade gracefully myself, but w/e)... that however is quite another.

[Dmacleo]

Hello Dave,

Does it work at https://www.keycaptcha.com/demo-free/ on your mobile devices?

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

I will test this today

[Matt Ball]

Hello Matt,

1. Who are those people? Are you talking about lynx's users? So, KeyCAPTCHA doesn't work in lynx. :smile:
2. Our system shows the message (for visitors who have disabled JavaScript) where we ask visitors to enable JavaScript.
All modern browsers can execute JavaScript and this feature is enabled by default.

Best regards,

KeyCAPTCHA

1. No - I'm talking about users with disabilities. Some can't control a mouse because they don't have the physical ability and have to rely on keyboard control. With the ever growing 'accessible for all' thinking, surely this is a consideration that should have been included from the beginning?

This is also something reCAPTCHA is fine with, you can change the images as many times as you like and you can also listen instead of read (benefit to those with poor sight). It can all be controlled without a mouse.

What about those users not that tech savvy? There is nothing to even tell you that the pieces are drag and drop, there isn't a help bubble/balloon or anything. Some users need this detail which the rest of us take for granted.

2. It is a very small percentage, yes, but when your competitors are able to provide a solution to those not running Javascript it puts you behind a bit. Why not include a way, instead of telling the user the are wrong and that they should be running JS. This is either going to a) baffle them or b) annoy them because they purposely have it off.

If the part about being able to bypass with JS off is true that'd also be a concern. I haven't actually looked into this just going on the above posts :smile:

[Millipede]

Hello Millipede,

It is a part of our security system. Those CAPTCHAs are displayed if our system detects abnormal count of actions from one IP. A share of these CAPTCHAs is less than one percent from millions of KeyCAPTCHAs which are processed every day.
At the same time all other 99+ percent of visitors see our ordinary jigsaw puzzles.

We really had some issue with our image classification CAPTCHAs on chrome some time ago. But now all issues are fixed.

Errrm, given that it appeared like that as soon as I went to the Registration page and before I even tried it once, I don't see how it could have detected my IP as being an "abnormal count of actions from one IP", particularly when my IP is a static one which only I use?

When you say "some time ago" for the image issues on Chrome, how long ago was that and when was it fixed? It was only October when I couldn't use in Chrome.

[KeyCAPTCHA]

1.The fact a bot can walk right past your CAPTCHA by merely disabling javascript is of no concern to you?

2.Where is this message shown?

1.There are no bots that can solve KeyCAPTCHA. The method you described doesn't work.

2.Thank you for your screenshot. We forgot to add 'noscript' section to our IP.Board plugin. We will do it asap.

[Marcher Technologies]

Just FYI, in IPB's case, there is a blaring red warning at the top of every page when javascript is disabled, that was a screenshot of sfs, not an IPB there. Similarly, I am posting this message with javascript disabled. You really should consider a fallback implementation, the general standard is basic functionality should work without it. Spam protection via a CAPTCHA is basic functionality, especially when IPB does in fact support such fallbacks as evidenced by this post.
This is a double-edged bad, if you block the submission, users with javascript disabled will be unable to post where with other solutions they could. If you do not, then the scenario I described in my previous post is not so infeasible, just run a script uses Lynx to spam.
Oh, and Android devices do not execute javascript(this one specifically has been a pain in my butt since I noticed it).

[KeyCAPTCHA]

1. No - I'm talking about users with disabilities. Some can't control a mouse because they don't have the physical ability and have to rely on keyboard control.

2. What about those users not that tech savvy? There is nothing to even tell you that the pieces are drag and drop, there isn't a help bubble/balloon or anything. Some users need this detail which the rest of us take for granted.

3. It is a very small percentage, yes, but when your competitors are able to provide a solution to those not running Javascript it puts you behind a bit. Why not include a way, instead of telling the user the are wrong and that they should be running JS. This is either going to a) baffle them or b) annoy them because they purposely have it off.

4. If the part about being able to bypass with JS off is true that'd also be a concern. I haven't actually looked into this just going on the above posts :smile:

1. These users are able to control their mouse cursors via their keyboards. Thus these users are able to solve KeyCAPTCHAs.

2. Thank you for your feedback. We will add more detailed tips in the future.

3. Thank you for your feedback. We will keep this in mind.

4. Sure, It doesn't work.