Kinda questionable IPB

[Davyc]

The semantics of this issue is probably not so much about the warning as the wording of it.  The license per-se 'hasn't expired', but the support and additional features contract has. Perhaps the wording needs to be looked at and the essential option of dismissing the 'reminder' implemented; once dismissed never to return again until perhaps a few months have passed as a courtesy rather than an irritating bludgeon that some believe it to be.  The problematic issue is that if there are no updates forthcoming during the six monthly renewal cycle and alternative options to combat spam and chat are in place, then the support contract is of little value to the end user.

I don't believe that this warning is anything insidious, but it has provoked a lot of comments and I fully believe that the guy's at IPS will manage to come to some kind of agreement with their clients that will keep everyone happy.

[jackflash]

Maybe this notice could be added below the IPS copyright / license notice in the footer of most sites - the "license expired" notice only being viewable to admins?

IMHO I think handling this through email from IPS (one email a week from IPS) to the license holder is a more appropriate solution then any notices in the software.

​I like the footer idea OR maybe even at the very, very top of the forum.  

The problem I see with e-mails is that AOL, GMAIL and Yahoo users might mark them as spam?

Either way though, I really don't mind IPS doing this on the front end.

[Makoto]

Here's a very, very simple solution to make everyone happy.

"Dismiss".

Just add a dismiss link to the message. When the message is dismissed, it won't display again. This is a pretty common sense solution.

If you just want to be sure the license holder is aware when their license expires, that's what e-mails are for. Or, if you want to be proactive from a marketing standpoint, have your marketing department give people a call when their license expires and ask if they'd like to renew it.

If this was just about users losing access to spam mitigation, you could only display a message like this when the user has the anti-spam feature enabled and their license is expired. The message will inform the user that their spam mitigation feature is no longer functioning and will not go away until their license is renewed or they disable the feature. Again, a pretty common sense solution.

Forcing a message like this to be in-your-face-on-every-single-page-you-visit-forever-and-ever is absolutely unnecessary and extremely spammy. Forgive me for being blunt, but I don't buy the reasoning that this is just about being sure the admin is aware when his or her license expires, this seems more like wanting to spam the message enough that it becomes annoying to the point someone would renew their license just to make the message stay away.

I do honestly hope you prove me wrong though.

[Jυra]

The simple solution won't work because it's about monetization.

[pisaldi]

 

Further, as I've mentioned, not all admins responsible for renewals login every day. In many business cases, some 

never 

login and otherwise never know unless and until another administrator notifies them. 

 

Hi, 

Perhaps an easy way to arrive to the owner when the licence expire would be sending an email once per week or twice per month or with the choosen option, but I think that would be better...  

[Jυra]

They already send an email or two. It's enough.

[Izaya Orihara]

I should've known this would become a hot topic on TAZ(LOL). I was linked to that thread just a few moments ago. SMH at that, though HIGHLY unsurprising considering the source.

I find it strange on two levels.

1. I do think this is forcing something on the customers and it could potentially backfire on IPS. I do hope you guys reconsider what you all came up with and go back to the drawing board simply because given the delays of IPS 4 you don't want others to not upgrade or worse leave for existing competing products, Which is funny people are upset over a Notice but I digress...

This is merely the perpetual license thing all over again...same scenario just retold differentl.y

Speaking of...

2. Much like the perpetual license scenario, I find it hilarious that the most vocal people who are complaining are not IPS customers(who actually do have that right to do so as they are paying customers and this affects them. or should I say affects US) but people who are not paying customers and have no intention of using said product to even be affected by the notice thing.

Makes you wonder really  But again I digress and sip on my tea

 

PS: What if a compromise would be that it only displays for ONE particular admin(The Mother) of the site. And not for everyone. For those who are feeling offended by this.

[craigf136]

I understand IPS is a business and it needs to maximise it's revenue stream, it's only logical and common sense to do so. However, other means of maximising the revenue streams exist.

I can understand if IPS wants to go down the mandatory renewal for support after 6 months, cash is king at the end of the day. I would be happy to do this and on a specified day of the month via direct debit or paypal recurring. I would like to see an option for 12 months at a reduced rate compared to 2 x 6 months.

I just personally feel that putting a message front end is a step too far (yes I know it's just admins).

[Izaya Orihara]

I understand IPS is a business and it needs to maximise it's revenue stream, it's only logical and common sense to do so. However, other means of maximising the revenue streams exist.

I can understand if IPS wants to go down the mandatory renewal for support after 6 months, cash is king at the end of the day. I would be happy to do this and on a specified day of the month via direct debit or paypal recurring. I would like to see an option for 12 months at a reduced rate compared to 2 x 6 months.

I just personally feel that putting a message front end is a step too far (yes I know it's just admins).

​I suppose for those who have all the apps and what not, the renewal at twice a year thing is costly.

For me, I presently have Chat and IPB and it's only like $40 or $50. When I used XF(sigh) that was the same price for me. I never really got this whole thing about the double renewal. yes I pay twice a year while competing products are paying once a year.....but I am not paying necessarily MORE. I am just paying more often.

Of course there is the way to simply negate this. Why not just add the money to your account credit and you pay once a year by adding a years worth of money. Problem solved, right?

[Dark Shogun]

How about making it a PM instead of displaying it like it is currently or as other said make it so it can be disabled altogether. I will be the only Admin on my board but if I have another one in the future it could be a concern, especially if they don't have the ability to log into the client area to extend the license.

 

Dark Shogun

[Makoto]

Better yet, instead of a PM, you could have a full featured message center in the AdminCP to store all of these messages even after they have been acknowledged. This could also be used to store/archive the notifications for updates to the software, security patches, and so on.

There are countless far more reasonable ways of going about that do not involve turning IP.Board into Nagware.

[craigf136]

 

Of course there is the way to simply negate this. Why not just add the money to your account credit and you pay once a year by adding a years worth of money. Problem solved, right?

​Cash every 6 / 12 months is not the issue (for me).

​

[CheersnGears]

@Lindy I think the issue is one of semantics.   The Software license has not expired, the software support contract has. 

The other issue I think is having too many people as admins. It should be 3 to 4 people tops even on large sites. Everyone else should have "almost admin" if they need elevated privileges.  That said, I don't know how the software determines who gets to see the notice... if it goes to all people in the admin group or all people who have a certain level of rights regardless of the group. 

[Izaya Orihara]

I was just making a comparison to Microsoft. IPS really reminds me of Microsoft(A good thing in my eyes) and the concept of "Damned if they do, Damned if they don't" concept and it always makes me interested, had another company that isn't IPS had done something like this(or any of the other past complaints this year) would the outcry and response be quite the same

[Jυra]

I find it hilarious that the most vocal people who are complaining are not IPS customers(who actually do have that right to do so as they are paying customers and this affects them. or should I say affects US) but people who are not paying customers and have no intention of using said product to even be affected by the notice thing.

​I disagree and I have not seen such. Anyone that hasn't used a product has a right to complain about a product or service. Besides a few people that were wow'ed about this, it's been all IPB users (active license and not).

[Lindy]

@Lindy I think the issue is one of semantics.   The Software license has not expired, the software support contract has. 

​That is not accurate. There is already spam mitigation and there are more hybrid-hosted services coming that will only be active with an active license. While many renew for support, that is not what the renewal is for -- the fact that's being overlooked is one of the purposes of the message. 

 

[Makoto]

​That is not accurate. There is already spam mitigation and there are more hybrid-hosted services coming that will only be active with an active license. While many renew for support, that is not what the renewal is for -- the fact that's being overlooked is one of the purposes of the message. 

​So, can't you only display this message if those services are enabled? The same way it currently works in IPB3? I don't need/use the anti-spam service and probably won't have use for any other hosted features you offer in the future, as I self-host almost everything on my board. Why should I be harassed with a nagware message when my license expires and I don't renew it?

I really don't mean to come off as hostile, but I don't know how else to describe this, other than a nagware message. If this is really meant to mitigate support issues like you are saying, there are surely better ways to deal with this. Do you agree?

[Jυra]

The stuff about support and services that come with renewing is beating around the bush.

[Lindy]

Whether you use the services or not, the license is expired - we certainly have the right to flag it as such.  

I will say one last time -- all of your feedback has been noted and appreciated. We are going to make the message less intrusive and will likely provide a way to dismiss it. That's the best I can do. 

Jura - I never explicitly said the message cannot be removed. We will just have no discussion of it here and we won't tolerate users encouraging it. Though the license agreement can be amended at any time, we have not made any amendments that would forbid the removal of the message.

[Jυra]

Sorry but it just sounds like you're backtracking. No discussion or encouragement of it means you need it to be annoying in order to get more renew funds.

[Lindy]

Seems a bit silly to put in a licensing message only to post or allow the posting of instructions to remove it. The point is, I never said it's against the license agreement to remove it.  

[Jυra]

It's not silly at all. It's not like they're attempting to remove the copyright link. It would be silly to add any kind feature if people will have the ability to disable, remove, or discuss on how to disable/remove it. I don't see the logic.

[Lindy]

It's not a feature - that's the difference. 

[Makoto]

Whether you use the services or not, the license is expired - we certainly have the right to flag it as such.  

​You have the right to do pretty much whatever you want. You can turn IP.Board into Nagware if that's what you wish. I hope that's not what you really want though.

It would be nice if you would just openly recognize this as a flaw and say that it will be fixed, not respond by saying you have the right to do whatever you want.

But I appreciate your response regardless. Thank you for confirming something will be done.

[Lindy]

I already said we see the points made and we're going to compromise - it often seems if there's no immediate action, it appears as if we don't listen. 

Allow me to clarify further with specifics. We're going to make the bar smaller and less intrusive and allow you to dismiss it -- most likely for two weeks at a time. 

I hope that helps alleviate some of the concern and it's considered a reasonable compromise.