Removal of $15 Domain Change

[Haku2]

2 hours ago, ahc said:

I had an inactive license for over a year because there was nothing significant enough to warrant the extra $190 we would have spent.

I was able to purchase and download files from the marketplace the entire time right up until 4.5 Beta 1 came out. All of a sudden I was locked out of things I had just paid for or renewed. I sent in a ticket and was told that this was always the intended behavior and that if I had access to purchase, renew, and download files before with an inactive license, it was in error.

So.. which one is the truth?

I know how you feel. It is ridiculous to have to pay so much money just to access the marketplace files you have already paid for. You now have to renew all of your suite's app licenses just to access one marketplace update. And, if you try to get around paying for all of your suite's apps renewals by cancelling some, you then have to pay full price if you ever want them back. I've been holding off on renewing for this reason.

[Ptilly]

1 hour ago, DesignzShop said:

Second, I never understood why people want to let their license overlap. I don't think I ever let that happen for myself in all the years I've been here. I always wanted the latest version so I could keep my sites safe with current bug fixes and security updates. My members and my investment meant that much to me.

Because not everyone has hundreds to thousands of members that can donate at every given moment. Some people are still trying to grow their forum the right way by not using freeware forums or cheaper alternatives. This also helps in the long run so you don't need to worry about converting over to a paid platform in the future...

Edited September 2, 2020 by Ptilly

[Haku2]

5 minutes ago, Ptilly said:

Because not everyone has hundreds to thousands of members that can donate at every given moment. Some people are still trying to grow their forum the right way by not using freeware forums or cheaper alternatives. This also helps in the long run so you don't need to worry about converting over to a paid platform in the future...

Yes, there are at least several reasons actually:

• Renewals can be expensive, especially if you own most of the official apps. Unfortunately, you can't select which ones you don't want to renew. If you try to get around this by cancelling some, you just lost a big chunk of your investment as you now have to pay full price if you ever want them back.
• Hopefully, the software maintains a good security record in which you don't have to perform full upgrades frequently to have the security holes patched. You shouldn't have to upgrade to every point release that gets put out. Additionally, a properly qualified administrator should have the knowledge to be able to patch the reported exploit himself/herself (or at least know/hire someone who can).
• Upgrading to any of the first few releases of a major release usually isn't a good idea. It's best to wait until most of the major bugs are ironed out first.
• Some of us perform development (this includes content) on a local environment first before opening the community to the public. In this case, there is no rush to upgrade if bugs or newly announced functionality isn't impacting you.
• As @Ptilly has said above, some of us are either running a community as a hobby or have a very small member base in which having the newest and greatest features all the time isn't necessary.
• Not everyone needs official support to run their community. Some us are very good at troubleshooting and fixing issues ourselves without submitting a support ticket.

[CoffeeCake]

3 hours ago, ahc said:

All of a sudden I was locked out of things I had just paid for or renewed. I sent in a ticket and was told that this was always the intended behavior and that if I had access to purchase, renew, and download files before with an inactive license, it was in error.

This is absurd.

[ahc]

29 minutes ago, Paul E. said:

This is absurd.

It's okay.  I've already noticed developers are spending more effort on their own development websites where the files can be obtained without the restrictions.  Some are happy to transfer your purchase so you only have to pay for renewals on their site.  Just need to ask nicely.  In the end, I'm not going to be the one hurting and those developers won't be losing 10% profit.

Edited September 2, 2020 by ahc

[DesignzShop]

6 hours ago, ahc said:

It's okay.  I've already noticed developers are spending more effort on their own development websites where the files can be obtained without the restrictions.  Some are happy to transfer your purchase so you only have to pay for renewals on their site.  Just need to ask nicely.  In the end, I'm not going to be the one hurting and those developers won't be losing 10% profit.

We've been down this road before a few times. The majority want IPB to take the reigns on applications for several reasons ranging from

bad development
Devs going awol
Devs taking to much time to release

and the list goes on and on and on. I'm sure @Lindy could mention the ones I didn't plus some.

Devs can list off their site but you need to ready for what could happen if things go wrong. As a dev I can tell you the process for us to get our applications and themes in the marketplace is a bonus for the purchaser. You get a working product right out of the box that's been tested and poured over by IPB to make sure you are getting a quality properly developed product. It's not easy for devs to get accepted due to the stringent requirements, but that benefits the buyer in the end imo greatly. losing 10% profit? try 20% in the real near future. Do I agree with that? I think it should be less like around 12-15% but that's not my choice. it is my choice however to go through the painstaking process to make sure IPB customers get a great product. 

7 hours ago, Ptilly said:

Because not everyone has hundreds to thousands of members that can donate at every given moment. Some people are still trying to grow their forum the right way by not using freeware forums or cheaper alternatives. This also helps in the long run so you don't need to worry about converting over to a paid platform in the future...

I ran a popular drummers forum for 13 years. I went into it not expecting people to pay me anything, I left it that way too till the end. If you're developing something with dollar signs in mind I wonder how much of a passion that really is to you. If you can't afford a forum and what it takes to keep it and your members safe imo you should stick with free software. At least with free software you can keep security patches up with current releases on time. It's like buying a new car, Should I get a Cadillac and pay tons in maintenance costs or should I get something when something goes wrong I can fix affordably. You certainly want to keep maintenance up and your budget is obviously saying if you buy the Caddy it could be struggle which may end up leaving you without transportation. 

To each their own, that's for sure, but if you want to get into the big league with paid software you should expect there's recurring costs involved. getting something better means developers are being paid and there's a business to run. business's can't run on every Tom Dick or Harry wanting to skip renewals either. People have to eat. As you know with free software, those developers are making money in other ways to put food on their table, pay bills and whatever else it takes to feed themselves and their families possibly.

Realistically looking at this, the entire suite to renew is around 110.00 USD every 6 months. You have 6 months to save a hundred bucks. If you can't save a 100.0 USD in 6 months, you may want to consider a free option.

Bottom line, IPB is a business and must work as such to survive.

Edited September 3, 2020 by DesignzShop

[Ptilly]

36 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

We've been down this road before a few times. The majority want IPB to take the reigns on applications for several reasons ranging from

bad development
Devs going awol
Devs taking to much time to release

and the list goes on and on and on. I'm sure @Lindy could mention the ones I didn't plus some.

Devs can list off their site but you need to ready for what could happen if things go wrong. As a dev I can tell you the process for us to get our applications and themes in the marketplace is a bonus for the purchaser. You get a working product right out of the box that's been tested and poured over by IPB to make sure you are getting a quality properly developed product. It's not easy for devs to get accepted due to the stringent requirements, but that benefits the buyer in the end imo greatly. losing 10% profit? try 20% in the real near future. Do I agree with that? I think it should be less like around 12-15% but that's not my choice. it is my choice however to go through the painstaking process to make sure IPB customers get a great product. 

I ran a popular drummers forum for 13 years. I went into it not expecting people to pay me anything, I left it that way too till the end. If you're developing something with dollar signs in mind I wonder how much of a passion that really is to you. If you can't afford a forum and what it takes to keep it and your members safe imo you should stick with free software. At least with free software you can keep security patches up with current releases on time. It's like buying a new car, Should I get a Cadillac and pay tons in maintenance costs or should I get something when something goes wrong I can fix affordably. You certainly want to keep maintenance up and your budget is obviously saying if you buy the Caddy it could be struggle which may end up leaving you without transportation. 

To each their own, that's for sure, but if you want to get into the big league with paid software you should expect there's recurring costs involved. getting something better means developers are being paid and there's a business to run. business's can't run on every Tom Dick or Harry wanting to skip renewals either. People have to eat. As you know with free software, those developers are making money in other ways to put food on their table, pay bills and whatever else it takes to feed themselves and their families possibly.

Realistically looking at this, the entire suite to renew is around 110.00 USD every 6 months. You have 6 months to save a hundred bucks. If you can't save a 100.0 USD in 6 months, you may want to consider a free option.

Bottom line, IPB is a business and must work as such to survive.

"Popular drummers forum". While I'm here running a forum for a small Garry's Mod gaming community. I spend $2500.00 on Garry's Mod Server Add-ons and $1000+ on XenForo add-ons and themes. Want to know what the cool thing about that is? I own every single bit of it and I can download it at any time I please.

So don't come 'Barneys Girlfriend'ing at me about what forums software I should and shouldn't use; I've ran my community model with the mindset of being able to survive without donations, but with Invision Power Board's team being greedy, and being laid off from work due to COVID, that possiblity has just now become alot slimmer. Unless you have the money to give me to spend on $200 a month for both the Garry's Mod Server, web server, and license divided up into the six month period on a month-per-month basis, I suggest you stick to your little drummers forum.

[Haku2]

12 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

I ran a popular drummers forum for 13 years. I went into it not expecting people to pay me anything, I left it that way too till the end. If you're developing something with dollar signs in mind I wonder how much of a passion that really is to you. If you can't afford a forum and what it takes to keep it and your members safe imo you should stick with free software. At least with free software you can keep security patches up with current releases on time. It's like buying a new car, Should I get a Cadillac and pay tons in maintenance costs or should I get something when something goes wrong I can fix affordably. You certainly want to keep maintenance up and your budget is obviously saying if you buy the Caddy it could be struggle which may end up leaving you without transportation. 

To each their own, that's for sure, but if you want to get into the big league with paid software you should expect there's recurring costs involved. getting something better means developers are being paid and there's a business to run. business's can't run on every Tom Dick or Harry wanting to skip renewals either. People have to eat. As you know with free software, those developers are making money in other ways to put food on their table, pay bills and whatever else it takes to feed themselves and their families possibly.

Realistically looking at this, the entire suite to renew is around 110.00 USD every 6 months. You have 6 months to save a hundred bucks. If you can't save a 100.0 USD in 6 months, you may want to consider a free option.

Bottom line, IPB is a business and must work as such to survive.

It's a bit unfair to skip over my points just to attack @Ptilly's only point as mine counteract most of your arguments. If we're going to play around with the analogy of the Cadillac, the maintenance costs should be fairly average if you only bring it in for maintenance when it really needs it and not premature oil changes or transmission flushes. And, even then, you could save quite alot by doing it yourself or hiring someone else to do it. The same could be said for software. Not everyone needs every bug fix or new feature as soon as it's available. There are bugs you may never notice unless you regularly work within a certain realm of the software. You could even fix some bugs easily yourself. If the software has a good security record, you shouldn't have to upgrade frequently to get the security patch. I've kind of already went over this before, but most security flaws aren't even that complicated and can be fixed with a few lines of code. There actually used to be one-file patches you could easily download and apply before IPS got greedy and refrained from doing this. Furthermore, Cadillacs are basically just an overpriced American car so their parts shouldn't be anything special.

To get to your point on how businesses have to make money, there are plenty of ways companies can make money without unfairly charging people for every little aspect they can think of. I'd be renewing more frequently if I didn't have to pay for renewals on apps I'm not currently using in addition to other shady business decisions IPS has implemented. Would you give into your refrigerator charging a monthly fee to cool if it meant keeping the brand in business? 🙂

[Ptilly]

Since it’s only been implemented for a few months already, I’ll give it a couple more months to settle in. When people start to realize the issue this causes, Invision Power Board will remove this requirement. You can mark my words :).

This type of business won’t last long.

[jaeitee]

1 hour ago, Ptilly said:

Want to know what the cool thing about that is? I own every single bit of it and I can download it at any time I please.

If you're going to go underlining things at least have a basic understanding of what it is that you actually own before going all out aggressive on others 🙂 
 

Quote

2. Rights
The Software is licensed to You for use only under the terms and conditions of the License. You acknowledge that all intellectual property rights, copyrights and trademarks in the Software belong to XenForo Limited, that rights in the Software are licensed (not sold) to You, and that You have no rights in, or to, the Software other than the right to use them in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.

 

 

1 hour ago, Haku2 said:

If the software has a good security record, you shouldn't have to upgrade frequently to get the security patch.

A lack of updates does not indicate a good security record.  In fact it can quite often indicate the exact opposite as it's a direct result of a lack of testing.
 

 

9 hours ago, Ptilly said:

Because not everyone has hundreds to thousands of members that can donate at every given moment. Some people are still trying to grow their forum the right way by not using freeware forums or cheaper alternatives.

This is you pushing your arbitrary view forward on what is the 'right way' and what isn't.  There's many successful phpBB forums out there, and in fact that free platform has outlasted many commercial variants over the years due to the very nature of its ecosystem and how it's supported.  Portraying that using a platform like phpBB is not the 'right way' is not only disingenuous, it's insulting the the thousands of people in that community and the developers that have maintained the software for two decades.

You may not like what IPS is doing, that's fine and you're entitled to that opinion but making stuff up doesn't really encourage anyone outside your echo chamber to agree with you.

[Lindy]

I'm sorry for the disappointment and confusion here. As you likely know, the Marketplace has been shifted to the AdminCP in 4.5. Beyond that, IPS has taken an even more proactive approach for the ultimate benefit of the majority of customers. We have developed new guidelines, provide more in depth and stringent reviews for submissions and now, for all updates as well. With all of this, we are striving to provide a more seamless and stable experience. Part of this is ensuring you have the latest version of both the core software as well as third party software. We are aiming to help ensure that if you install something in the Marketplace in your community it will provide you with a far greater success rate than in the past. It will also help authors reduce support overhead allowing them to focus more on development and less on why a resource isn't working on a 2yr old version. 

With the majority renewing anyway (we would be doing something wrong if people running successful communities weren't also interested in properly maintaining them, right?), we didn't really anticipate a particularly negative response (although anytime we make any decision, there are always predictions of impending doom - nature of the business. 🙂) Interestingly though, there have been an alarming number of customers who have submitted a ticket that haven't renewed in some time, prompting the question "what would you even do with the marketplace anyway, nothing in it would work on the version you should have" and a quick investigation shows they have been using a "nulled" version of the core software (in a few cases, for 6+ years) and were sneaking in through the backdoor of the Marketplace. That obviously wasn't the intent of correcting the marketplace to work in the ACP based on license status and there are of course customers doing the right thing simply frustrated by the principle of this, but it's been an interesting byproduct for sure.

For those acquiring resources from the authors directly, that is perfectly fine and entirely their/your decision. We don't net anything off of the Marketplace and if you weren't going to renew anyway, there is no net loss there either. We've kept provisions for manual installation of resources, but for the reasons mentioned above, it will generate an untested/unauthorized type warning because it's not within the Marketplace framework - which also means you will need to manually update. Beyond that, there should be no obstacles or barriers. 

I know I've said this before, but please understand that our company has dramatically shifted over the years and continues to evolve. At the risk of appearing brash, if you are expecting XF or Brand X prices, polices, etc. you may unfortunately find yourself continually disappointed as we have vastly different business models, an increasingly different demographic and the landscape of enterprise grade communities continues to demand more. We are certainly not intentionally shutting anyone out, but we do have to make continual decisions to grow the platform, create sustainability for the company and ensure we are hitting the mark for those keeping the lights on. In this case, we feel that most will benefit from a solid Marketplace with trusted resources, seamless installations and continuity in upgrades. We've made decisions we feel help us best achieve the goals, but we recognize there will always be some that disagree and that's completely ok (as long as we can agree to disagree when the time comes.) As noted by others, there are options for everyone out there - we want you to be happy and choose us as your platform provider, but if another provider would better meet your needs at price points that fit your goals, we completely understand. 

My apologies again to those aversely impacted. I have confidence that should you remain an active customer, any hesitation you may have about this will be far outweighed by the benefits of simplicity, ease of maintenance and stability. 

 

[Haku2]

44 minutes ago, jaeitee said:

A lack of updates does not indicate a good security record.  In fact it can quite often indicate the exact opposite as it's a direct result of a lack of testing.

That's not exactly what I said. Software with a good security record can have many updates with only some of those updates including exploit fixes. The point I was trying to make was that if every update or every other update contains an exploit fix, it's probably software you shouldn't be using anyway. Otherwise, you can go a long while without having to renew for an update if you don't go in and patch the exploit yourself (which is usually a few lines of code anyway). Obviously, this can vary between different software packages. Some are very stable and aren't focused on new features so if the only updates (assuming the updates aren't very frequent) are exploit fixes, it's very reasonable.

[Haku2]

5 minutes ago, Lindy said:

We don't net anything off of the Marketplace

So, is the 20% commission that you are earning off the Marketplace purchases just an exaggerated number from some of the developers?

[Dean_]

43 minutes ago, Lindy said:

Interestingly though, there have been an alarming number of customers who have submitted a ticket that haven't renewed in some time, prompting the question "what would you even do with the marketplace anyway, nothing in it would work on the version you should have" and a quick investigation shows they have been using a "nulled" version of the core software (in a few cases, for 6+ years) and were sneaking in through the backdoor of the Marketplace

Understand this, and I was thinking yesterday how hard it would be now for some to run a nulled community with addons, however I’m sure they will find a way. So I hope they get dealt with. 😈

 

43 minutes ago, Lindy said:

Part of this is ensuring you have the latest version of both the core software as well as third party software. We are aiming to help ensure that if you install something in the Marketplace in your community it will provide you with a far greater success rate than in the past.

We’ve seen a few replies from staff saying this was a recent change, especially over the years regarding the marketplace. However, was it officially announced? Unless I missed something (which does happen), can you show us where it was announced? And if it hasn’t, could you please think about changing that making it very clear somewhere on the site. Maybe within the marketplace with a message?

Is there not a way that good standing customers could be in a tier system? This would allow us to download from the market place still. As someone pointed out earlier, there have been times that no updates have been done for 4/6 months, and if a licence runs out just before or during, why would I renew? Obviously I would wait until an update is released to renew.

I don’t want to have to go outside of the marketplace if I can help it. So the way forward is to play it smart and only renew when apps/plugs need renewing when software updates are released and time it all together, instead of waiting for one or the other.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Dean_

[Lindy]

Just now, Haku2

5 minutes ago, Lindy said:

We don't net anything off of the Marketplace

So, is the 20% commission that you are earning off the Marketplace purchases just an exaggerated number from some of the developers?

It’s currently 10% and has not yet increased to 20% - we’ve left it alone in light of Covid and ironing out the new marketplace.

That said, even at 20% it’s expected to almost break even. The marketplace operates at a net loss to IPS just because of the price point of most resources. So on. $5 resource, we get a $.50 commission - now, say that $5 resource has a chargeback that’s $20. So our net loss on a $5 resource is $20.50. That also means we need up to 40 more of those transactions in commission just to break even on the original transaction. There is also payout fees to pay the authors. The marketplace operates in the red even before considering the staffing. When you slice it up, you could see why apple takes 30% and never refunds their fees.

Thats neither her nor there, my comment was reinforce we don’t make money in the marketplace - the opposite, so it’s ok if you use the authors site too. It’s just not ideal (for you.)

[Square Wheels]

I think it's great that the apps are available through the ACP, I don't agree with the requirement to have an active license.  For me, there have not been any updates in a very long time.  I was looking forward to upgrading to 4.5, now that is soured by the requirement to have an active license moving forward.  I have looked at other options.  Does IPS care?  It would seem not as they indicate I am the in the minority in not maintaining my license, even though there have not been updates in a very long time.

It is true I do not understand the business reason for you doing this, but as one of the (I suspect) many people running hobby sites that don't make money, this is really hard to take.  @Lindy, you mentioned XF, as you are aware, their upgrade fees are significantly less (85 a year if you buy everything - not every 6 months, but a full year), and you do not need an active license to purchase add-ons.  The license fees here are nearly triple that if you buy most products.

I understand IPS won't be bothered by losing a small customer like me, 3 licenses, and that makes me sad.  The culture felt more welcoming when I joined 13 years ago.

[DesignzShop]

7 hours ago, Ptilly said:

"Popular drummers forum". While I'm here running a forum for a small Garry's Mod gaming community. I spend $2500.00 on Garry's Mod Server Add-ons and $1000+ on XenForo add-ons and themes. Want to know what the cool thing about that is? I own every single bit of it and I can download it at any time I please.

So don't come 'Barneys Girlfriend'ing at me about what forums software I should and shouldn't use; I've ran my community model with the mindset of being able to survive without donations, but with Invision Power Board's team being greedy, and being laid off from work due to COVID, that possiblity has just now become alot slimmer. Unless you have the money to give me to spend on $200 a month for both the Garry's Mod Server, web server, and license divided up into the six month period on a month-per-month basis, I suggest you stick to your little drummers forum.

Quote

Want to know what the cool thing about that is?

Not really but... IPB is not XF or anything else. You choose IPB and now you expect them to change their business model for you. You know what to do if you don't like it or can't afford it!

 

Quote

So don't come 'Barneys Girlfriend'ing at me about what forums software I should and shouldn't use

That's called a suggestion, no ones forcing you to do anything. Calling IPB greedy however especially when you choose their business model or expecting them to cater to you over covid is very unreasonable. Using covid to deplete a business of funds is out there. My mortgage company didn't let me off the hook for covid nor did my vehicle finance company. I guess you should of better planned out your finances and future.

 

Quote

I suggest you stick to your little drummers forum

Well, if you would of comprehended what I said, I ran it for 13 years, in other words I don't have it anymore. My little drummers forum when I did have it was visited by the biggest names in the music business from Alice Cooper's current drummer to many more big names you couldn't even imagine. Many of these drummers are still friends of mine. Successful site it was I could afford and maintain with proper planning. So I guess maybe you should stick to your small joystick Garry's kiddie community with better planning or use a application that fits your budget better. If you're crying over $15.00 USD or renewals you obviously have financial issues and planned poorly.

[Square Wheels]

5 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

Not really but... IPB is not XF or anything else. You choose IPB and now you expect them to change their business model for you. You know what to do if you don't like it or can't afford it!

That's not entirely true.

Yes, I chose IPS.

They changed their business model after I chose them and am now heavily invested in them in that my sites rely on the software in its current state, including the many add-ons I have.

[DesignzShop]

6 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

That's not entirely true.

Yes, I chose IPS.

They changed their business model after I chose them and am now heavily invested in them in that my sites rely on the software in its current state, including the many add-ons I have.

That's how businesses evolve. When a business evolves into something I don't like I leave to fit my needs elsewhere. That's what most people do, that's how that works.

[WP V0RT3X]

1 hour ago, Square Wheels said:

as you are aware, their upgrade fees are significantly less (85 a year if you buy everything - not every 6 months, but a full year)

With "everything" you mean forum, gallery, ressource manager and elastig search (yes you have to pay extra for that)? But there's one thing you forget, XF has much less functionality compared to IPS. And I'm not talking about things like blogs, commerce and so on. Only for the forum you have to buy lots of third party addons for features that come with Invision out of the box. Also XF concentrates on the forum, XFMG and RM have been neglected for a long time. The gallery even got nerfed with the 2.0 release and is almost unusable at the moment.

[Square Wheels]

4 minutes ago, V0RT3X666 said:

With "everything" you mean forum, gallery, ressource manager and elastig search (yes you have to pay extra for that)? But there's one thing you forget, XF has much less functionality compared to IPS. And I'm not talking about things like blogs, commerce and so on. Only for the forum you have to buy lots of third party addons for features that come with Invision out of the box. Also XF concentrates on the forum, XFMG and RM have been neglected for a long time. The gallery even got nerfed with the 2.0 release and is almost unusable at the moment.

You are correct, I did not include elastic search.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just expressing my frustration.

Every now and then there is a thread with many responses and a title like "Formus are dead" or "Facebook is taking over".

I run three sites.  I make almost no money and spend a lot of time keeping the sites active.  This is one more financial hit.

It's no wonder "Forums are dying", it's really hard for them to survive.

[christopher-w]

58 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

It's no wonder "Forums are dying", it's really hard for them to survive.

Forums may be dying, but I don't think the need for community is. FB is expanding its groups offering to cater for this, but apart from scrolling group nav, which is superb, especially on mobile, the rest of the FB long form communication experience is, in my opinion, pretty dire. So, I think the opportunity going forward is to create a slick community experience, that is safe, looks great and covers most of the functional requirements with a high degree of UI consistency. IPS is part of the way there, but it's those little usability touches that FB does so well (generally) and the likes of Discourse do superbly, that makes all the difference. In saying that, IPS continues to improve and I was very pleased to see that IPS 4.5 reworked the nav bar, although I still don't like the mobile experience. But, when all is said and done, IPS is, imo, far and away the most complete community platform commercially available and heads and shoulders above anything else in the space. One caveat to that. Discourse does discourse better, and a few other things not pertinent to this thread, but it's a one trick, mobile centric pony. 

As others have said, you make your choices and can stick or twist at any stage. But what I would say to counter those that argue 'you should leave if you don't like it', is that folks shouldn't be put in that position. Certainly not those that have been loyal clients in the past. We should all remember that pre internet, it was accepted by professional marketeers that the cost of acquiring new clients was 30/40 times greater than the cost of retaining them. I don't know what the stats are these days, but I can't imagine it's so different. Food for thought perhaps.

[The Old Man]

I'd really like to see IPS take action against a prolific site offering nulled versions of IPS, that seems to have existed for a decade or more despite being discussed here in the forums. Not doing so is almost like turning a blind eye, essentially a slap in the face for all of us who are loyal clients but also struggle to keep the lights on at IPS and our communities. Get them shut down, blacklisted from Google, whatever you can. 

Regarding security patches for fixing vulnerabilities, I believe they should be removed from point releases and instead made available separately for free through the Support Tool, especially with auto updates coming closer. You should NEVER, EVER have to renew a licence to ensure your member's data is safe and your site is secure, especially after you have paid a lot of money for professionally developed quality software with increased security in the first place.

Thats an instant PR win for IPS, right there. 🙂

Edited September 3, 2020 by The Old Man

[Dean_]

32 minutes ago, The Old Man said:

I'd really like to see IPS take action against a prolific site offering nulled versions of IPS, that seems to have existed for a decade or more despite being discussed here in the forums. Not doing so is almost like turning a blind eye, essentially a slap in the face for all of us who are loyal clients but also struggle to keep the lights on at IPS and our communities. Get them shut down, blacklisted from Google, whatever you can. 

They offer their own nulled licences now, the absolute cheek!

[Haku2]

1 hour ago, The Old Man said:

Regarding security patches for fixing vulnerabilities, I believe they should be removed from point releases and instead made available separately for free through the Support Tool, especially with auto updates coming closer. You should NEVER, EVER have to renew a licence to ensure your member's data is safe and your site is secure, especially after you have paid a lot of money for professionally developed quality software with increased security in the first place.

This I agree with and this is how it used to be before IPS got greedy. When security patches were released, most of the time it was just one file that you would just easily download and replace on your environment. However, I expect them to come back with some cover-up excuses about why it shouldn't be that way anymore, but hopefully they will surprise me.