Missing features in 4.0 are a HUGE problem for my business

DReffects2 · July 7, 2015

Hi guys!

First of all let met tell you a little bit about myself. I've been using IPS products since the dawn of time (meaning perl-based Ikonboard). I've always been very impressed with the product and since I am running a web development company I've recommended and used your product for lots of customers. The invisionpower suite - since version 3.x with the addition of IP.Content is my go-to content management system when I am doing projects. In recent history I've provied you with 10+ customers from the EU.
The support and pricing is excellent, versions 2.x and 3.x are offering the features I need. (Apart from the EU cookie law thingy).

Now Version 4.0 has been released and with it you've announced the end of life for version 3. Come January everyone has to migrate to the new version. Which would be fine. But. And that's a but larger than your mammas...

There are a lot of crucial features missing from v 4.0 that were available since Ikonboard 0.9, 2.x and 3.x.

The missing features that concern me:

Print View is gone
IP.Pages relational Database field is gone
Latest topics on external pages (via ssi.php in 2.x and a custom block in 3.x) is no longer possible
Displaying a custom or feed block on an external page is no longer possible

Why is this a huge problem for my business?

Like in most countries around the world you are required by law to provide warranty for the stuff you do. In case of a website for me here in Germany it's two years. One of the main reasons behind me recommending and using IPS products is that unlike with open source stuff the product continuity always has been more than excellent. Up till now.

Since the support for 3.x is running out in January my customers have to upgrade to 4.x and by this loose functionality. Which puts me in a VERY BAD spot since I have to provide that functionality. Before bidding on a contract i get a functional specification document which describe all the options a website must have. Of course things like a dedicated print view is always part of that. I'll explain below why.

As of now, if i'd upgrade my customers to 4.x I'd be in breach of contract since functionality previously agreed on is no longer present.

Why are the features mentioned above to crucial?

Print View

Any website that is run by a public institution or that is being financed by tax money is required by law to be "barrier-free". That means that people with impaired vision or other disabilites are still able to use the website. This is where a dedicated print view (not just a customized on the fly css thingy) comes into play. The print view skin is being used to generate the output for braille interpreters and for high contrast output.

Since print view is missing my customers that use your system have to shut down their sites when switching to 4.x since they are no longer compliant to the regulations within the EU. My customers in this area include hospitals, theaters, local authorities and communites.

IP.Pages relational database field

Well, I simply use that field in about half of my IPS driven websites and the feature is crucial for those sites.

Latest topics / IP.Pages block on external websites

Since websites for local authorities and communities have to tie-in with other websites from the same district by local regulations this isn't just nice to have, it is a strict requirement by my customers.

Personal thoughts:

I fully appreciate how complicated a complete rewrite of any software that turns things to the better is. Something that Invisionpower most certainly has done in the past. I am amazed on how well the upgrade process went and to what length you guys go to to provide backwards compatibility. On the other hand I simply cannot see how such crucial features that are more than dealbreakers are simply missing. From a support ticket response I know that a relational database field is in the works. Yet on the "upcoming features" page it is not listed. Can you guys please offer a more detailed list of features and timeframe for upcoming features?

Please consider that for many customers, especially when financed by tax money, a website isn't a project that is in a state of flux like most entertainment websites are, but an investment that has to work the same for at least 5-7 years. While my customers fully understand that one needs to update and maintain a website on a regular basis they (and myself) do not understand why features you need to have and that have been there since version 0.9 are going away with an upgrade.

Thank you very much for your time.

Best Regards
-Daniel

socceronly · July 7, 2015

I don't think you are forced to upgrade.

I don't know about Print View, but relational DB field is coming and embeddable content from Pages is also coming.

DReffects2 · July 7, 2015

I don't think you are forced to upgrade.
I don't know about Print View, but relational DB field is coming and embeddable content from Pages is also coming.

Sure, no one forces me, but if support for 3.x stops by january security issues arise.

Good to hear about the DB field and content from pages. But what about an exact timeframe?

sunrisecc · July 7, 2015

Per Charles:

IP.Board 3.3.x and related apps will no longer receive any support or security updates after 1 January 2016. IP.Board 3.4.x and related apps will no longer receive support or security updates after 1 April 2017.

opentype · July 7, 2015

There is no exact timeframe, as usual. Neither are there are exact release dates for the future releases, nor are these road map items assigned to a specific release yet. But they are “coming soon”, so probably “within the coming months” if that helps.

Lindy · July 7, 2015

As noted, everything apart from print view is coming soon. I think the use case for print view is pretty limited to the point it's likely not going to happen. I'm not familiar with the requirements you're referring to, but I would imagine you could accomplish something similar with a custom skin.

Shariq Ansari · July 7, 2015

@Lindy I think if you'd taken my suggestion to do a single running list of features/functionality from IPB 3.4.X known to be missing in IPS 4.0, along with status & rough ETAs (where possible), it would actually be saving you & other IPS staff time, because instead of individual responses to a number of threads just like this one, it would just be pointing people to a single place. Just saying...

That being said, definitely looking forward to the relational database field being reinstated.

Rikki · July 7, 2015

I've put together a really quick print stylesheet you can use to approximate what IPB 3 did. Simply add this CSS to your custom.css file for your theme (or, if you prefer, create a new css file called print.css). Paste this in:

@media print {
	body {
		width: 100%;
		font-family: "Georgia", "Times New Roman", serif;
		background-color: #fff !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_header > header {
		background-color: #fff !important;
		margin-bottom: 0 !important;
		padding: 10px 0 0 0 !important;
	}

	#elSiteTitle {
		color: #000 !important;
		font-size: 1.8em;
	}

	#elHeaderNavigation {
		background: #fff !important;
		padding: 0 0 15px 0 !important;
		border-bottom: 1px solid #ebebeb;
	}
	#elFooterNavigation {
		background: #fff !important;
		padding: 15px 0 0 0 !important;
		border-top: 1px solid #ebebeb;
	}

	.ipsLayout_container {
		max-width: 100% !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_contentArea,
	.ipsBox {
		border: 0 !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_mainArea {
		padding-left: 0 !important;
		padding-right: 0 !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_sidebar,
	#elSearchNavContainer, #elMobileNav,
	#elHeaderSubLinks,
	#elUserNav,
	#elWidgetControls,
	.ipsToolList,
	.ipsButtonBar,
	.ipsDataItem_lastPoster,
	.ipsComment_controls,
	.ipsFollow,
	.ipsPageHeader .ipsUserPhoto,
	.ipsLikeRep,
	.cTopicPostArea,
	[data-controller="core.front.core.sharelink"] {
		display: none !important;
	}

	.ipsType_richText {
		font-size: 1.2em;
	}

	.ipsType_sectionTitle {
		background: #333 !important;
		color: #fff !important;
		border-radius: 0 !important;
	}

	.ipsType_pageTitle {
		font-size: 2em;
		color: #000;
	}

	.ipsPageHeader {
		margin: 30px 0 !important;
	}

		.ipsPhotoPanel > div {
			margin: 0 !important;
		}

	.ipsComment {
		border-bottom: 4px solid #333 !important;
		margin-bottom: 0 !important;
	}

	.ipsComment.ipsColumns,
	.ipsComment.ipsColumns > .ipsColumn {
		display: block !important;
		width: 100% !important;
	}

	.ipsComment_author {
		text-align: left !important;
	}

		.ipsComment_author .cAuthorPane_photo,
		.ipsComment_author .cAuthorPane_photo ~ li {
			display: none !important;
		}
}

Charles · July 8, 2015

@Lindy I think if you'd taken my suggestion to do a single running list of features/functionality from IPB 3.4.X known to be missing in IPS 4.0, along with status & rough ETAs (where possible), it would actually be saving you & other IPS staff time, because instead of individual responses to a number of threads just like this one, it would just be pointing people to a single place. Just saying...
That being said, definitely looking forward to the relational database field being reinstated.

We have exactly that and every item listed here is on that list:

https://community.invisionpower.com/release-notes/coming-soon-r17/

DReffects2 · July 8, 2015

I've put together a really quick print stylesheet you can use to approximate what IPB 3 did. Simply add this CSS to your custom.css file for your theme (or, if you prefer, create a new css file called print.css). Paste this in:

Superb! Thank you very much!

We have exactly that and every item listed here is on that list:

https://community.invisionpower.com/release-notes/coming-soon-r17/

Call it a german thing, but that list is very very far from what I would call a detailed and reliable roadmap. It's more or less a list of "things we haven't had time for yet".

What I am missing is the following:

A timeframe for each feature
A more detailed view on what you actually mean by all that stuff. It is more than vague

Charles · July 8, 2015

It says on that page those items are coming +/- in the next month.

DReffects2 · July 8, 2015

It says on that page those items are coming +/- in the next month.

The word "usually" and the addendum "or so" makes that totally unuseable information when talking to a customer.

"Hey customer, when are you going to pay your bills?" - "Ususally within the next month or so" - "thanks..."

Dll · July 8, 2015

The word "usually" and the addendum "or so" makes that totally unuseable information when talking to a customer.
"Hey customer, when are you going to pay your bills?" - "Ususally within the next month or so" - "thanks..."

That's an unreasonable example. When it comes to development timeframes there has to be flexibility due to the fact that unforeseen issues, challenges and bugs can arise, either on a particular feature or one which precedes it in the schedule which would have a knock-on effect.

Charles · July 8, 2015

Yes, as Dll said, we are providing WAY more information than most software development companies do

Besides, the list on that Coming Soon section is almost word for word the same list posted in the first page of this topic. Seems like exactly what you are after.

DReffects2 · July 8, 2015

Hm I beg to differ on that but I guess thats a matter of opinion.

Anyhow - I really hope it stays within the "one month" timeframe

socceronly · July 8, 2015

Sure, no one forces me, but if support for 3.x stops by january security issues arise.
Good to hear about the DB field and content from pages. But what about an exact timeframe?

Sorry I meant forced in a literal sense, that some people think they have to upgrade immediately.

I didn't mean it in the 'snarky' you're not 'forced' to do anything way people use sometimes.

The rate they are turning out fixes and features, January is a long long ways away.

Matt · July 9, 2015

It sounds like you need a simple, clear and high contrast theme more than a print view. Perhaps one of our themers could point you in the right direction, or maybe you could persuade one to create such a thing?

DReffects2 · July 12, 2015

It sounds like you need a simple, clear and high contrast theme more than a print view. Perhaps one of our themers could point you in the right direction, or maybe you could persuade one to create such a thing?

Hey @Matt, thanks for checking in. Is it possible to call a certain item (article, db-record etc.) with an URL paramater that enforces a specific theme without setting it permanently for that user and thus mimicking the print functionality while also overriding the max items per page setting in order to show ALL posts from a topic?

I've talked to the braille expert here with local authorities and what they actually do is to parse websites for words like "print article", "print" etc. in order to extract the information needed.

The feedback I've gotten from a scifi community is that the lack of a print view hinders them in archiving their community based RPG.

jackflash · July 12, 2015

I've put together a really quick print stylesheet you can use to approximate what IPB 3 did. Simply add this CSS to your custom.css file for your theme (or, if you prefer, create a new css file called print.css). Paste this in:

@media print {
	body {
		width: 100%;
		font-family: "Georgia", "Times New Roman", serif;
		background-color: #fff !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_header > header {
		background-color: #fff !important;
		margin-bottom: 0 !important;
		padding: 10px 0 0 0 !important;
	}

	#elSiteTitle {
		color: #000 !important;
		font-size: 1.8em;
	}

	#elHeaderNavigation {
		background: #fff !important;
		padding: 0 0 15px 0 !important;
		border-bottom: 1px solid #ebebeb;
	}
	#elFooterNavigation {
		background: #fff !important;
		padding: 15px 0 0 0 !important;
		border-top: 1px solid #ebebeb;
	}

	.ipsLayout_container {
		max-width: 100% !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_contentArea,
	.ipsBox {
		border: 0 !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_mainArea {
		padding-left: 0 !important;
		padding-right: 0 !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_sidebar,
	#elSearchNavContainer, #elMobileNav,
	#elHeaderSubLinks,
	#elUserNav,
	#elWidgetControls,
	.ipsToolList,
	.ipsButtonBar,
	.ipsDataItem_lastPoster,
	.ipsComment_controls,
	.ipsFollow,
	.ipsPageHeader .ipsUserPhoto,
	.ipsLikeRep,
	.cTopicPostArea,
	[data-controller="core.front.core.sharelink"] {
		display: none !important;
	}

	.ipsType_richText {
		font-size: 1.2em;
	}

	.ipsType_sectionTitle {
		background: #333 !important;
		color: #fff !important;
		border-radius: 0 !important;
	}

	.ipsType_pageTitle {
		font-size: 2em;
		color: #000;
	}

	.ipsPageHeader {
		margin: 30px 0 !important;
	}

		.ipsPhotoPanel > div {
			margin: 0 !important;
		}

	.ipsComment {
		border-bottom: 4px solid #333 !important;
		margin-bottom: 0 !important;
	}

	.ipsComment.ipsColumns,
	.ipsComment.ipsColumns > .ipsColumn {
		display: block !important;
		width: 100% !important;
	}

	.ipsComment_author {
		text-align: left !important;
	}

		.ipsComment_author .cAuthorPane_photo,
		.ipsComment_author .cAuthorPane_photo ~ li {
			display: none !important;
		}
}

Another problem solved rather quickly

Superb! Thank you very much!

Call it a german thing, but that list is very very far from what I would call a detailed and reliable roadmap. It's more or less a list of "things we haven't had time for yet".

What I am missing is the following:

A timeframe for each feature

A more detailed view on what you actually mean by all that stuff. It is more than vague

Sounds more Prussian than German.

DReffects2 · July 12, 2015

I've put together a really quick print stylesheet you can use to approximate what IPB 3 did. Simply add this CSS to your custom.css file for your theme (or, if you prefer, create a new css file called print.css). Paste this in:

@media print {
	body {
		width: 100%;
		font-family: "Georgia", "Times New Roman", serif;
		background-color: #fff !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_header > header {
		background-color: #fff !important;
		margin-bottom: 0 !important;
		padding: 10px 0 0 0 !important;
	}

	#elSiteTitle {
		color: #000 !important;
		font-size: 1.8em;
	}

	#elHeaderNavigation {
		background: #fff !important;
		padding: 0 0 15px 0 !important;
		border-bottom: 1px solid #ebebeb;
	}
	#elFooterNavigation {
		background: #fff !important;
		padding: 15px 0 0 0 !important;
		border-top: 1px solid #ebebeb;
	}

	.ipsLayout_container {
		max-width: 100% !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_contentArea,
	.ipsBox {
		border: 0 !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_mainArea {
		padding-left: 0 !important;
		padding-right: 0 !important;
	}

	#ipsLayout_sidebar,
	#elSearchNavContainer, #elMobileNav,
	#elHeaderSubLinks,
	#elUserNav,
	#elWidgetControls,
	.ipsToolList,
	.ipsButtonBar,
	.ipsDataItem_lastPoster,
	.ipsComment_controls,
	.ipsFollow,
	.ipsPageHeader .ipsUserPhoto,
	.ipsLikeRep,
	.cTopicPostArea,
	[data-controller="core.front.core.sharelink"] {
		display: none !important;
	}

	.ipsType_richText {
		font-size: 1.2em;
	}

	.ipsType_sectionTitle {
		background: #333 !important;
		color: #fff !important;
		border-radius: 0 !important;
	}

	.ipsType_pageTitle {
		font-size: 2em;
		color: #000;
	}

	.ipsPageHeader {
		margin: 30px 0 !important;
	}

		.ipsPhotoPanel > div {
			margin: 0 !important;
		}

	.ipsComment {
		border-bottom: 4px solid #333 !important;
		margin-bottom: 0 !important;
	}

	.ipsComment.ipsColumns,
	.ipsComment.ipsColumns > .ipsColumn {
		display: block !important;
		width: 100% !important;
	}

	.ipsComment_author {
		text-align: left !important;
	}

		.ipsComment_author .cAuthorPane_photo,
		.ipsComment_author .cAuthorPane_photo ~ li {
			display: none !important;
		}
}

Hey Ricky,

I've just tried that css - for some reason it produces odd results. Please see for yourself:

http://forum.scifinews.de/topic/9661-neue-funktionen-im-forum-großes-update-für-euch/#comment-305666

Attached is the print output as a PDF

Neue Funktionen im Forum - Großes Update für Euch! - Ankündigungen & Feedback - SF-Board by www.scifinews.pdf

Rikki · July 12, 2015

I'm not sure... might be your browser? When I load your site it's appearing fine.

DReffects2 · July 12, 2015

I'm not sure... might be your browser? When I load your site it's appearing fine.

Hmm odd. I also get empty pages when trying to print out this thread. I can reproduce on two PCs with Firefox 38.0.5.

No issues within Internet Explorer.

DReffects2 · July 18, 2015

I've implemented the print CSS modifications. Is there a way to show all responses in print view, not just the one from the current page but the entire topic?

Marcher Technologies · July 18, 2015

Viably with a plugin, yes. Not the best idea, especially with very large topics. That was never a feature of the software in the first place, it always just printed the current page, so... I'm confused.

DReffects2 · July 18, 2015

Viably with a plugin, yes. Not the best idea, especially with very large topics. That was never a feature of the software in the first place, it always just printed the current page, so... I'm confused.

I was on version 2.x before upgrading to 4 - there was a 'download topic' button that opened up a new window with the page in print layout without pagination

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Missing features in 4.0 are a HUGE problem for my business

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