Monthly Licenses

[tppn]

Hi, 

I've been an IPS customer for a while now. It's great software, but $175 is a big commitment (to some at least) to try and create a community at first. While the hosted option is nice, some people are able to host it themselves (and I'm willing to bet some people use it soley for the license, at least to start with). ​Ideally you'd be able to buy a license for around $25/mo. 

 

[Hexsplosions]

I don't see how that would work with software. You can't stop them using it after the first month and, if you tried, the customer experience would be atrocious.

I think the IPS pricing structure is actually quite good and very good value.

[Woodsman]

No, I have to agree... changeing the structure will open a new can of worms here... I can see where there will be those that will pay the first month just to get the licensed board then cancel or refuse to pay there after.... Now they have a working board knowing the cost and manpower for IPS to get it taken down for non payment will be more costly than the initial $175.00.

This was a hard lesson learned in a real life's scenerio.... But I do like your stand and willingness to believe that there are still a few out there that can be trusted.

[Mur]

I don't see how that would work with software. You can't stop them using it after the first month and, if you tried, the customer experience would be atrocious.

I think the IPS pricing structure is actually quite good and very good value.

​

No, I have to agree... changeing the structure will open a new can of worms here... I can see where there will be those that will pay the first month just to get the licensed board then cancel or refuse to pay there after.... Now they have a working board knowing the cost and manpower for IPS to get it taken down for non payment will be more costly than the initial $175.00.

This was a hard lesson learned in a real life's scenerio.... But I do like your stand and willingness to believe that there are still a few out there that can be trusted.

​See, you're not wrong. But what's the difference between paying for a year then? Once you purchase the ability to download it, the reason to keep paying is to have the upgrades, included support and access to the marketplace (correct me if I'm wrong but that's for active licenses only iirc).

I think it would be a reasonable option on a pay-per-month basis, but not offer renewal discounting, I am sure I read somewhere that they are changing up their billing and that's why the perpetual licenses are no longer a thing, but I wouldn't be against it, and it may also take away from the warez community some because a majority of those involved simply don't have the funds but love the software.

[Hexsplosions]

So we're asking a business to change from a model in which you pay $175 up front for the software and $25 every 6 months for support, to $25 a month? What happens if I only want the software and do not want to keep paying the renewal? It seems like IPS would stand to lose $150 per license straight up, without taking into considerations other addons as well.

That pricing model makes no sense.

Now if you had to pay to access upgrades then I think that pricing model works, but that would be a worse pricing model for us because in the long run it would be a lot more expensive.

The only software I've seen the pricing model you're suggesting work for is cloud based software that can be deactivated when payments cease.

[Mur]

So we're asking a business to change from a model in which you pay $175 up front for the software and $25 every 6 months for support, to $25 a month? What happens if I only want the software and do not want to keep paying the renewal? It seems like IPS would stand to lose $150 per license straight up, without taking into considerations other addons as well.

That pricing model makes no sense.

Now if you had to pay to access upgrades then I think that pricing model works, but that would be a worse pricing model for us because in the long run it would be a lot more expensive.

The only software I've seen the pricing model you're suggesting work for is cloud based software that can be deactivated when payments cease.

​You're assuming they'd drop the current model as opposed to add on the monthly option. Regardless, they aren't making anything from nulled warez, purely because users don't want to fork over $175 right away.

What happens if I only want the software and do not want to keep paying the renewal

Exact same thing as if you only wanted the software but didn't want to keep paying the renewal with the current payment system, what difference does that make?

He's after a 1 month 'active' license status for the equivalent of $25, that's MORE than what we pay for essentially the same thing in bulk. You're over-thinking it.

[Hexsplosions]

Users pirating software does not make a price reduction warranted, so that argument is flawed right away.

I'm also not over-thinking it, I'm just thinking about it from a business perspective. It makes no sense to drop the price from $175 to $25. Once the user has the software hosted on their platform it would become a nightmare to manage users who don't 'renew'.

[opentype]

There is always free or cheaper software when you just want to try out something. Before I used the expensive Adobe software tools, I used a cheap and older CorelDRAW package. Before I bought a commercial forum app, I used phpBB. You don’t have to start with the best and most expensive. 

In addition: IPS already offers what you want. You can get the hosted package not for $25, but for $20. What better way to try out the software and see if you can manage to built up a community? If you just want to test it and pay as little as possible, you already can do that. Why would you need the self-hosted solution?

 

[Mur]

Users pirating software does not make a price reduction warranted, so that argument is flawed right away.

I'm also not over-thinking it, I'm just thinking about it from a business perspective. It makes no sense to drop the price from $175 to $25. Once the user has the software hosted on their platform it would become a nightmare to manage users who don't 'renew'.

​I don't see a flaw with it in the least, here you mention from a business perspective but blatantly want to ignore a very prevalent issue in any software field? How is that reasonable.

Why would you manage users who don't renew? You don't need to force anyone to do anything. $175 / year = $14.58 / month. So they'd be charging more for monthly payment schedules, and then those who buy annually get (ideally) a bulk buy discount value. It's not warranting a price reduction in the least.

On top of that, if you only want to buy a month, then so be it. Then their licenses expire, enough said.

[AndyF]

My personal thought on this is for those that find the regular price a little bit too much to digest is to simply have a hosted (Community In The Cloud) one instead as its easier with monthly payments. Yes you obviously have to keep paying every month but if they find they like the software etc they can always purchase a licence at a later time and if required move to their own hosting...

[Joel R]

Yes, please give me the entire suite for $25.  

[Woodsman]

My personal thought on this is for those that find the regular price a little bit too much to digest is to simply have a hosted (Community In The Cloud) one instead as its easier with monthly payments. Yes you obviously have to keep paying every month but if they find they like the software etc they can always purchase a licence at a later time and if required move to their own hosting...

​This is how many of our fellow clients got their start and has been recommended for quite a few years when brought up.

If somebody needs a monthly plan to test the waters per say I would say this is the way to go. Not to mention giving them time not only to build their community but also time to pull their resources together.

On an outside server IPS would have no control on those who purchase for a month or two and then stop paying towards their purchase. They would need to hire more staff for this. Thus raising costs. Unfortunately in todays age a mans handshake is as good as his word is only just that for most "Words" 

[The Jimmo]

​I don't see a flaw with it in the least, here you mention from a business perspective but blatantly want to ignore a very prevalent issue in any software field? How is that reasonable.

​There will ALWAYS be people who get software illegally. You can't stop it. Making your software less expensive and with possible "gaps" in payment issues does not solve this, in fact you're only hurting yourself more. Devaluing the software only hurts IPS and it's clients. If you can't afford the $175 upfront there are credit cards and other payments terms that can help you spread that payment out. This is like saying just because people always steal expensive nice cars, we must make them more affordable

As @opentype said, there are always other options if you cannot afford IPS.

[Mur]

​There will ALWAYS be people who get software illegally. You can't stop it. Making your software less expensive and with possible "gaps" in payment issues does not solve this, in fact you're only hurting yourself more. Devaluing the software only hurts IPS and it's clients. If you can't afford the $175 upfront there are credit cards and other payments terms that can help you spread that payment out. This is like saying just because people always steal expensive nice cars, we must make them more affordable

As @opentype said, there are always other options if you cannot afford IPS.

​I'm not saying it would stop it, but you're assuming that everyone who uses IPS is old enough for a credit card, which is not the case. Now, that being said; there's definitely alternative options that are cheaper - I started with MyBB before I could afford IPB. But it's always in the best interest (from a business perspective) to come up with affordable options for everyone. It's not like the software isn't already out there and available, the reason to keep a license active it honestly the updates and the spam prevention.

If the software itself was being extremely protected and not for public viewing, then everything would be IPS Hosted, with $25 / month payments, there'd be a lot more forums out there that are legitimately IPBoard (which is a form of advertisement on it's own) and at $25 / month IPS would be getting $250 annually from that using assuming they kept their license active. If not, they got $25 that they otherwise wouldn't have received, it will also create an influx of payments around update time.

It would require me knowing a lot more numbers and business-sensitive information before actually making a call on the subject, but it may be something worth looking into (if they haven't already).

[opentype]

But it's always in the best interest (from a business perspective) to come up with affordable options for everyone.

​Nope, that is not true. 

[The Jimmo]

​I'm not saying it would stop it, but you're assuming that everyone who uses IPS is old enough for a credit card, which is not the case. Now, that being said; there's definitely alternative options that are cheaper - I started with MyBB before I could afford IPB. But it's always in the best interest (from a business perspective) to come up with affordable options for everyone. It's not like the software isn't already out there and available, the reason to keep a license active it honestly the updates and the spam prevention.

There are always options for someone who can't afford IPS, a credit card is just one of those, another is free/opensource software out there. IPS has a business model they have to keep to just keep the doors open. Unfortunately, if some individuals don't fit into that plan so be it, that's real business. Ferrari doesn't go "OMG, we're missing out on serving X customer with a cheap, economy car!" They have a business model and they follow it.

[Mur]

​Nope, that is not true. 

​as many interested clients as possible*

Happy?

There are always options for someone who can't afford IPS, a credit card is just one of those, another is free/opensource software out there. IPS has a business model they have to keep to just keep the doors open. Unfortunately, if some individuals don't fit into that plan so be it, that's real business. Ferrari doesn't go "OMG, we're missing out on serving X customer with a cheap, economy car!" They have a business model and they follow it.

​IPS is not the Ferrari of Social Suites though, that's the thing. They've got a good set of software but it's not the 'unquestioned' best. Enthusiasts want to use IPS but there's a major community loss because of arguably the price (among other things). I pay annually, and my initial purchase of $350 was not a problem for me. Now, I'm not one to preach making it available to everyone when I charge $1500 / month for my services myself (unrelated to IPB but relevant to the idea that it's not in the price range best for everyone) - but at $25 / month they'd be able to potentially increase the revenue if done correctly.

[opentype]

​as many interested clients as possible*

Happy?

​What?

[Mur]

​What?

​Statement wasn't true based on a technicality.

[Woodsman]

Mur, To be honest I belive you are beating the dead dog because he don't get up and hunt.

By your theory I should design build and give a new computer to a client for a set price of $25.00 montly payments on good faith that he will keep to his or her end of the bargain. Same thing....

Now he or she gets the computer home and refuses to keep with the agreement. Either way you look at it I am screwed....

1. I can chalk it up as a bad exprerience. I lose time and money.

2. I can start recovery proceedings. I lose money plus taking the chance on still not getting the computer or full balance.

3. I hire an attorney to take the client to small claims court. I lose in attorney and court fees if nothing is recovered. Not to mention time which is another factor lost. Time in design (propposal), build and getting ready for shipping or pickup.

Now from the digital media point of view.

IPS You on good faith set up a payment plan for an Application as in The IPS Social suite. The customer makes the first payment and takes it home. After which he refuses to make any other payments. You my friend are now the one getting screwed. You can go through all the steps I have pointed out above and all your client needs to do is set it up on a new domain with a new hosting provider and you are still screwed.

If a customer is serious about a product, has a total need and desire to obtain it, he or she will find a way to save for that product.

I didn't purchase my suite as a whole. I purchased each when I had the need and funds to pay for them. I finally got Nexus 2 years ago buying out another members license.

Where there is a will there is a way where nobody gets screwed.

[The Jimmo]

​​IPS is not the Ferrari of Social Suites though, that's the thing.

​That analogy went right over your head.

[Mur]

Mur, To be honest I belive you are beating the dead dog because he don't get up and hunt.

By your theory I should design build and give a new computer to a client for a set price of $25.00 montly payments on good faith that he will keep to his or her end of the bargain. Same thing....

Now he or she gets the computer home and refuses to keep with the agreement. Either way you look at it I am screwed....

1. I can chalk it up as a bad exprerience. I lose time and money.

2. I can start recovery proceedings. I lose money plus taking the chance on still not getting the computer or full balance.

3. I hire an attorney to take the client to small claims court. I lose in attorney and court fees if nothing is recovered. Not to mention time which is another factor lost. Time in design (propposal), build and getting ready for shipping or pickup.

Now from the digital media point of view.

IPS You on good faith set up a payment plan for an Application as in The IPS Social suite. The customer makes the first payment and takes it home. After which he refuses to make any other payments. You my friend are now the one getting screwed. You can go through all the steps I have pointed out above and all your client needs to do is set it up on a new domain with a new hosting provider and you are still screwed.

If a customer is serious about a product, has a total need and desire to obtain it, he or she will find a way to save for that product.

I didn't purchase my suite as a whole. I purchased each when I had the need and funds to pay for them. I finally got Nexus 2 years ago buying out another members license.

Where there is a will there is a way where nobody gets screwed.

You're entirely argument is not one I'm going to bother building a rebuttle too because it's based on the idea of a tangible good. IPS is selling software, they return value is with their updates, support and community marketplace access. So you're not selling it to them 'in good faith' the idea is literally say, here's the software, we will only offer you support for it for 30 days unless you renew. You're not looking for X amount of $25 payments, that's where your assumption is wrong. There's no good faith needed in this sense.​ You're also building yourself an off-course path because you're talking about these if's and's or but's that aren't needed to begin with.

 

​That analogy went right over your head.

​It did, by choice mind you. If you have to resort to an analogy in an argument you need to rethink your stance.

[The Jimmo]

 

​It did, by choice mind you. If you have to resort to an analogy in an argument you need to rethink your stance.

​Mhmmmm... right.

[Woodsman]

​as many interested clients as possible*

Happy?

​IPS is not the Ferrari of Social Suites though, that's the thing. They've got a good set of software but it's not the 'unquestioned' best. Enthusiasts want to use IPS but there's a major community loss because of arguably the price (among other things). I pay annually, and my initial purchase of $350 was not a problem for me. Now, I'm not one to preach making it available to everyone when I charge $1500 / month for my services myself (unrelated to IPB but relevant to the idea that it's not in the price range best for everyone) - but at $25 / month they'd be able to potentially increase the revenue if done correctly.

​OK what is the difference here and IPS Charging for their product?

You're entirely argument is not one I'm going to bother building a rebuttle too because it's based on the idea of a tangible good. IPS is selling software, they return value is with their updates, support and community marketplace access. So you're not selling it to them 'in good faith' the idea is literally say, here's the software, we will only offer you support for it for 30 days unless you renew. You're not looking for X amount of $25 payments, that's where your assumption is wrong. There's no good faith needed in this sense.​ You're also building yourself an off-course path because you're talking about these if's and's or but's that aren't needed to begin with.

 No you really need to re think this. This is still a product sold on good faith that 1. It is going to work as intended. If not IPS will stand behind and support their product. Yes they charge for further support and upgrade but so to those with tangible goods. ie: Automotive, Electronics, Home furnishings ect. ect. This is going to sound a bit humorous to some but so does my dentist.

The only difference in their support vs. mine the support for the product can go on indefinatly no matter if there is an error caused by the software or human factor. Where as my warranty is for a set period of time (3 years) and a clause I will not be responsable for Human Error. ie: Abuse, Damage caused by neglect Dropping, liquids, Excessive house dust causing burn out due to over heating, or damage by other means not associated with the computer. As in letting your dog use it as a fire hydrant. (OK KIDDING ON THE LAST ONE)

I do offer an extension to the warranty like IPS and any other business at an additional cost.

So I have to disagree with you on tangible vs. digital here.

[craigf136]

It doesn't make sense to switch to a monthly licensing system from the get go. However, it does make sense to offer a recurring payment setup on a monthly basis to cover the costs of the 6 month renewal. IPS is a business at the end of the day and rely on finances to cover the costs of salaries and other expenditures. Yes licences are renewed every month but not everyone will renew and this unknown factor "can" cause cash flow problems.

I know at present we can add credit to the account, but if a recurring payment option existed, I would happily setup a recurring payment on a monthly basis. Not only to cover my costs every 6 months but also to give IPS additional financial assistance on a monthly basis.

I would also happily pay $5 a month, taken the 6 month renewal to $30 (for the forum) but I have other packages totalling $70 every 6 month. Although it's not a lot of money, I don't run a business site, I run a community site relying on donations, subscriptions and ad revenue to fund server costs. I pay for the forum software out of my own pocket. $70 isn't a lot but but neither is $11.66 a month.

Come May (renewal time) I may have an unexpected bill (such as boiler needing fixed) and that $58.34 that I wouldn't need to spend could cover the call out fee for example.

It benefits both IPS and the client, to offer the option of a recurring payment but only for renewals, not for the suite as a purchase. They could probably split the $175 or so over 3 months but again, this could cause payments 2 and 3 to be declined as the purchaser has the software for $60.