Gogf Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 It's clear that Matt and the InvisionPowerBoard staff are making a valiant effort at making IPB look better. That's excellent, and I, for one, appreciate it. Unfortunately, this spectacular new presentation of the venerable software that we all know and love does not simplify its use whatsoever. The same options are available, they're just harder to get rid of. While the new IPB may look better than that of rivals at a glance - "it's got all of the features of vBulletin, but with less buttons!" - it's actually harder to get to most of the features.The forward buttonWhile some have dismissed this issue as irrelevant because they don't forward private messages, there's obviously a point to the feature, or IPB would drop it altogether. You can copy and paste, can't you? So, what has happened to the "forward" button that's been clogging up private message screens ever since emails made their debut? Well, with some careful inspection, it becomes evident that this feature is now hidden in a dropdown menu under the username of the sender of the message.Does this make any sense whatsoever? Not only does forwarding a message have absolutely nothing to do with the sender of the message, but getting to this option - let alone finding it the first time - is much more difficult than it used to be. What's the point of this? We now have one less button on the private message screen. Did we really have too many before?The "side panel"Another illogical "feature" of IPB 2.2 is its integration of smiley faces and "special items." At first, the only way to access smilies was through the new dropdown menu. This option was categorically rejected by the visitors of the IPB support forums, who were used to the older system of a panel on the left. Who can blame them? It's much easier to access the "clickable" smilies on the left panel - which are, traditionally, the most commonly used ones - than to have to open a dropdown menu.The fix for this issue was to include the option to display a "side panel." Not only are the smilies which we had previously lost easy access to displayed on this panel, but the "special items" that we're used to being able to access with a click are now there as well. Maybe it's just me, but having both this panel and the menus seems like a wasteful redundancy. What's the point of the dropdown menus? It's easier to access these things from the side panel anyway, and, in keeping with the new design strategies of IPB, why should we have all of these extraneous options clogging up the screen?The only place where the dropdown menus are more useful is when the side panel is hidden. Why would anybody ever want to hide the side panel? Apparently because that makes the post look more like how it will once it's going to be posted, but that's not true either. There's a side panel on the left of every posed message - with about the same approximate size as the posting side panel - which contains information about the user posting the message. If you really like a wide screen you can hide it, but, the amount of people who want an "extra wide posting screen" is barely large enough to mount a credible argument for the existence of the ability to hide the side panel. It's not nearly large enough to add a multitude of confusing - "what the heck is a 'special item'?" - redundant, and wholly unnecessary options to the posting screen.Finally, a last aside: the "unlink" option is bright red, unlike any other option. The user's eyes are drawn directly to this in the posting screen, which is distracting and unnecessary. People who can't figure out the meaning of "unlink" aren't going to be helped by the red - that tells them nothing more than the "un" does.The new profile systemThe new profile system is a dramatic upgrade from the older one, packed with lots of new features. Part of my issue with the system, unfortunately, is that it's hard to get to. You can't just click on a user's name anymore, you need to go through another dropdown menu. What's the purpose of all of this? Well, most of the buttons that used to be ruining the space around our posts are now hidden into this little vB-esque dropdown. If we're stealing ideas from vBulletin - and, let's be frank, that's obviously where the dropdown username link came from - then why not also snag the idea of having avatars link to the profile? Even though vBulletin employs the same username link dropdown as IPB now does, it neatly avoids the problem with the difficulty to access profiles by making avatars link directly to them. I posted a thread suggesting this, was informed that it had been suggested elsewhere as well, received a flurry of posts supporting my suggestion, and received no reason why this shouldn't be included. One link is hardly "bloat."Beyond the difficulty to access the profile system, there are a few glaring issues with it. To begin with, there is the security issue with profiles revealing who recently read them. Whatever you think about the philosophy of the people who use invisible mode, the ability to use it is - I believe - required by US law. People who don't use stealth mode clearly have no right to complain when their profile visits are logged, but why should it log those who do use it? That's right: people who use the hidden mode show up in the profile view log. This makes absolutely no sense, and forces these privacy advocates to log out and then back in again in order to view a profile while remaining anonymous. That's generating a lot of extra work that didn't used to be there, without much of a clear-cut purpose.While the security issue is a problem, there are quite a few issues with the aesthetics of the new system as well. When viewing a list of either topics or posts that a user has made, the links to these posts are small and hidden. One would assume that the title of the post or thread is a link to it, but this is not the case. There's no reason for this, and it only serves to confuse and disorient the user, while wasting his time searching for the link.Another glaring lack in the new profile system is the signature. Whatever the purpose of a signature may be, most users use it as a way to express themselves, display artwork, reproduce memorable quotations, or provide links to webpages they find relevant. Unlike all previous versions of IPB, there is no signature in the profile. Putting it somewhere would not "break the aesthetics" of the new system - it could go at the bottom of the listed posts when a user's topics or posts are displayed, below the first one, or even in its own section.My final complaint with the new profile system is the "graying out" of some of the tabs. While this may have been done intentionally to differentiate between categories, it appears as if the "comments," "friends," and "settings" sections are empty to new users of the profile system. The color they use is grayer than that of "topics," "replies" (which really should be renamed "posts" to avoid the confusion of people thinking that they are replies to the user's topics), "gallery," and "blogs." I don't have a problem with the use of a different color, but it should be one that looks less like a darker, grayer version of the other tabs.Image resizingA final issue with IPB 2.2 is the new image resizing system. While this system is an excellent new additional that breaks the cycle of annoyingly large, page-breaking images, the fact that it cannot be turned off or set is a glaring weakness. I posted a thread asking how it was set, and received no response from the staff. My only conclusion from this, and my failed search for this setting in the Admin CP, is that it cannot be set. Images of a certain size - determined from IPB - WILL be resized on your forum, without your consent.Supposedly this can be changed by changing the size of image thumbanils, but this too is a faulty system. I want my image thumbnails to be much smaller than I want the maximum full sized image to be, and I'm sure may others agree with this sentiment. This feature promises to be very exciting, but only if forum admins are given a greater degree of control over it. As it is, I view this more as a drawback of IPB 2.2 than a feature.So, that's my criticism of some of the features of the new system we're using. I haven't proof read this, as I do have homework I need to attend to, so I ask you to please excuse any minor typographical errors. If I am unclear at any point, feel free to ask what I mean :)!InvisionPowerBoard is a great forum system, and version 2.2 adds some exciting new features. Unfortunately, there are also some issues which need addressing. My goal in this article is to bring these to light and open a dialogue on them. Hopefully this will be met with a more constructive response than flaming - from either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 You raise some excellent points, and thanks for being so thorough with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gogf Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 You raise some excellent points, and thanks for being so thorough with them.I'm glad to know the IPB staff is reading and responding to major issues raised by the users :thumbsup:!(EDIT: Heh, I guess this could sound sarcastic. I don't mean it to be :).) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellawella Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 And about the image resizer:http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?...p;#entry1426112Look at UnitedPakistan's signature...it's resized to 98% of its original size :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 You raise some very excellent points.The "side panel" however... That is because some people prefer it on the side, and others prefer it in a drop down. Like I would prefer not to have the side panel, and others would refer to have it. The "Unlink" being red... I can see what you mean about that... But it isnt that big of a deal.The forward thing... I am very much in agreement. It also adds the person's name in the Recipient Box... And I ask.. why the heck would I want to forward the PM back to the person that sent the pm to me in the first place? That goes for the name being there, and for the forward option being where it is at all. Will have to admit that the 2.0-2.1 forward and reply links looked crappy and I'm glad to see buttons now... I would rather see a similar "Forward" button. Would make a lot more sense.As far as the drop down and "IPS copying vB"... Well vB has copied bigger features from IPB than this... And it does make sense. I think people need to stop worrying about who copied who. Both software programs have their strengths and weaknesses.... I do agree that it would be a plus to have the avatar linkable. Never thought of that.Image resizing: Would like to see the ability to turn it off... Not that I would, but other people might not like it as much as I do. Plus if the image is only going to be resized like 98 percent... How about not resize it at all? Maybe a threshold option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krang Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 You got exactly the things I'm also talking about. Some updates make the board look nicer, that's for sure, but as you said, I also think it gets harder to use. I'm afraid of users getting lost in all the funtions.Maybe the IPB staff thinks about your points, I do totally support your opinion! Thanks for your post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gogf Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 As far as the drop down and "IPS copying vB"... Well vB has copied bigger features from IPB than this... And it does make sense. I think people need to stop worrying about who copied who.That's not what I meant at all. I was only pointing out that this feature is also used in vB, where they already have a good solution to the issue in place :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 That's not what I meant at all. I was only pointing out that this feature is also used in vB, where they already have a good solution to the issue in place :).Oh, ok :)The profile security issue is a biggie I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedPakistan Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 And about the image resizer:http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?...p;#entry1426112Look at UnitedPakistan's signature...it's resized to 98% of its original size :lol: (w00t) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TestingSomething Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 At first I liked the knew posting screen, but honestly I like the old look better, it seems more relaxed and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.D. Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 The option when you log in specifically says what being "invisible" means:Log in as invisibleDon't add me to the active users list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCWT Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I don't understand the logic behind the FORWARD button, placing the most common used functions in a dropdown menu (why does the least used featurs get their own buttons???) the red unlink text and the image resizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gel Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmor Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 As far as the drop down and "IPS copying vB"... Well vB has copied bigger features from IPB than this... And it does make sense. I think people need to stop worrying about who copied who.Everybody copies off each other. Even these lesser known forum software copies from IPB and vB. But why is it that IPB and vB shove it into each other faces? Is it because IPB fans want to prove that IPB is better and vice versa?I would appreciate it if you could answer these questionsWho had subforums first?Who had the private message system first?Who had the quick reply first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted October 4, 2006 Management Share Posted October 4, 2006 The fact that 'anonymous' users appear in the profile's "last visited" is a bug that's just been fixed.The in-line image resizing automatically resizes the images to the screen width * 0.5. There is no 'fixed' pixel limit, it's based on the width of your browser. The intention is not to provide a thumbnail but rather prevent large images distorting the page.The side-panel controversy rages on simply because many people prefer the drop downs and some don't. It would be a little silly to start having per-user options to 'hide' the drop downs in the editor when the sidepanel is used as the drop downs are easily ignored and don't detract from the overall look when the side-panel is opened.Also, the editor is used in many areas where there isn't room for the sidepanel so we can't do away with the drop downs altogether. However, I've reworked the editor a little to do away with the 'Insert Special' menu.Ultimately such things are a matter of taste. We've had complaints that the drop downs hide too much and other complaints that the board / editor is becoming a mess of images and clutter. Naturally no one person is right. The best we can do is offer a good 'base' package and allow it to be customized through PHP, HTML and CSS code as easily as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted October 4, 2006 Management Share Posted October 4, 2006 Who had the private message system first?If you're interested, I wrote a hack for 'Board Power' (a free bulletin board) that added a 'User Control Panel' and 'Private Messaging' facilities. This was back in 1999 long before vB came along. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted October 4, 2006 Management Share Posted October 4, 2006 These are the changes since Beta 2.Editor reworked to do away with the 'Insert Special' menu and image / code, etc buttons added to the toolbarBug where anonymous users appeared in the last visitors fixedAll profile content tabs are the same colorAvatars are now linked to the user's profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Timmy Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Matt, thanks for all your efforts and for listening to us.I found a very minor issue though. The Insert Email link text when you hover over it says "Insert Link." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted October 4, 2006 Management Share Posted October 4, 2006 Fixed for the next release. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.U. Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 These are the changes since Beta 2.Editor reworked to do away with the 'Insert Special' menu and image / code, etc buttons added to the toolbarBug where anonymous users appeared in the last visitors fixedAll profile content tabs are the same colorAvatars are now linked to the user's profileI still dislike the smiles drop down. I see no point in it really. I can understand about the other menus. But even those who perfer not to use the side panel. They can simply show it and hide it as they please. So I think a better use would be to remove it. I also like the next/previus links for the smlies.I still see no change on the smilies pop-up, its still annoying, I see why it can't be more like the bbcode help window. I like the idea of the drop down menus on the names, dislike the idea its not linked, and what about if someone doesn't have or want a avatar? Some of my members perfer not to even use a avatar, so what would happen to those? No easy link now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalleniuM Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 nice work matt. love it :)one issue: if you hover over the buttons, there's a tooltip with the explanation. n Firefox 2.0 nightly, only the first tooltip is showing, you must move the mouse out of the button row and back in to get another tooltip. this should get fixed, would love to see sth like the overlib ooltips for the button explanations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted October 4, 2006 Management Share Posted October 4, 2006 Yeah, that seems to be a Firefox bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalleniuM Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 ok.. don't know if its in FF 1.5, too. maybe sb may confirm it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gogf Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Also, the editor is used in many areas where there isn't room for the sidepanel so we can't do away with the drop downs altogether. However, I've reworked the editor a little to do away with the 'Insert Special' menu.Okay, this makes sense.These are the changes since Beta 2.Editor reworked to do away with the 'Insert Special' menu and image / code, etc buttons added to the toolbarBug where anonymous users appeared in the last visitors fixedAll profile content tabs are the same colorAvatars are now linked to the user's profileExcellent! Thanks for all the hard work, Matt :thumbsup:! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Matt Posted October 4, 2006 Management Share Posted October 4, 2006 No thanks needed :)We do listen to members of the community who put forward legible and sensible suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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