Followers - Friends

[Woodsman]

I am not crazy about the whole following thing either. Friends is much more personable. Maybe it is as easy as editing the language strings to change it? A toggle setting would be nice.

​BTW editing the language string only changes the name not its function

[craigf136]

It's rather simple to change the functionality (I presume), what do you want to be spammed with, everything or forum posts/pages comments, both or nothing.

A fundemental difference exists between friends and followers, IPS need to allow us the users and admins decide on what can and cannot be followed or IPS V4 will simply become known as the spamming software.

This biggest issue I have with followers, isn't that it exists. It's that it's been fedback for a while and it's now about to go gold, it needs to and must change before going gold.

[SJ77]

I like followers. I think people really enjoy collecting followers.

[chilihead]

Followers is cool but why can't you turn off email notifications for followers or certain followers? Like when you follow a topic, you get to choose how you want to follow from a few options. It should act the same, person, or topic. 

[esquire]

I like followers. I think people really enjoy collecting followers.

​Facebook has both, as do other social networking iterations. Followers is more about notifications and Friends more about permissions and identification of relationships. I thought they'd go for both. I'm going to assume Friends isn't coming back soon, even though I appreciate your voicing your thoughts and @craigf136's and @Woodsman's enthusiastic efforts. I'm taking a bit of a hiatus. Good luck with the movement.

[SJ77]

 I'm taking a bit of a hiatus. Good luck with the movement.

​No please don't go. Your input here is valuable!

[opentype]

I am usually not a fan of the “do it like Facebook” arguments (because IPS communities should rather concentrate on what Facebook cannot offer), but since it’s a matter of fact that we have friends in 3.4 and followers in 4.0, one could indeed say: do it like Facebook and all would be happy. And in this case, doing it like Facebook would also mean to give the users elaborate control over what notifications are received and through which channels. 

[esquire]

I am usually not a fan of the “do it like Facebook” arguments (because IPS communities should rather concentrate on what Facebook cannot offer), but since it’s a matter of fact that we have friends in 3.4 and followers in 4.0, one could indeed say: do it like Facebook and all would be happy. And in this case, doing it like Facebook would also mean to give the users elaborate control over what notifications are received and through which channels. 

@superj707 - Thanks, but I need to spend valuable time productively. Perhaps I'll peek in and see how things are going periodically.

@Ralf H. - I understand what you're saying. But unfortunately now we can't do what Facebook, Linked In and what many basic open source software provides as a stock function. I'd rather focus about what I want to accomplish on my site and less worrying about whether I might be wearing the same dress as Facebook.

Networking/LinkedIn/Professional communities: What is one great reason to have searchable and customizable user profile fields? To find people that have a characteristic you seek. Let's say I run a professional "medical" site (or financial, insurance, education, whatever).  I may be interested in looking for a job or someone knowledgeable about a particular industry. Or if I'm a user, I may want a personal recommendation to another doctor from someone I know. I can run a search, find matches, and see the connections I have with others -- e.g. my Friend SuperJ707 is Friends with the doctor I want to know more about or be introduced. That's incredibly powerful - or should I say "was" because that doesn't work for followers.

Permission Group/Social/Family communities: And then there is the permissions issue described above, where a common feature used in numerous scripts functions as a one-click private permissions group allowing your Friends to see your private albums in Galleries. Tell your users to create a private user created permissions group and individually add people? Yeah, that's going to happen easily, including management of new members, each of which will have to pester your members to add them to a private permissions group and set albums. Talk about an incentive killer. 

[ZakRhyno]

I am usually not a fan of the “do it like Facebook” arguments (because IPS communities should rather concentrate on what Facebook cannot offer), but since it’s a matter of fact that we have friends in 3.4 and followers in 4.0, one could indeed say: do it like Facebook and all would be happy. And in this case, doing it like Facebook would also mean to give the users elaborate control over what notifications are received and through which channels. 

​I don't think they are saying do it like Facebook, I think it more of the lines that Facebook has xyz feature they like and they should improve on it and make it there own in IPB. Now looking at what makes people like it and bring it in to IPB as well. But also Follower and Friends are different, and looking at that is something that should be looked it closer.

[jackflash]

It's rather simple to change the functionality (I presume), what do you want to be spammed with, everything or forum posts/pages comments, both or nothing.

A fundemental difference exists between friends and followers, IPS need to allow us the users and admins decide on what can and cannot be followed or IPS V4 will simply become known as the spamming software.

This biggest issue I have with followers, isn't that it exists. It's that it's been fedback for a while and it's now about to go gold, it needs to and must change before going gold.

​Here's what concerns me about these e-mail notifications - if people with yahoo, gmail, aol, outlook, etc. accounts cannot stop these e-mails and they become burdensome, they may be prone to simply marking them as spam.  Should that happen and your host turns off your ability to send out e-mails and new user validations, then your community is dead.

 

[Lindy]

​Here's what concerns me about these e-mail notifications - if people with yahoo, gmail, aol, outlook, etc. accounts cannot stop these e-mails and they become burdensome, they may be prone to simply marking them as spam.  Should that happen and your host turns off your ability to send out e-mails and new user validations, then your community is dead.

 

​That's a valid concern. 

We have an internal discussion taking place on improvements to the follow system. 

[Woodsman]

It's rather simple to change the functionality (I presume), what do you want to be spammed with, everything or forum posts/pages comments, both or nothing.

A fundemental difference exists between friends and followers, IPS need to allow us the users and admins decide on what can and cannot be followed or IPS V4 will simply become known as the spamming software.

This biggest issue I have with followers, isn't that it exists. It's that it's been fedback for a while and it's now about to go gold, it needs to and must change before going gold.

​I have made it known from the previews (pre beta) I was not caring for this but I was reassured it would be better.... I am still waiting for where it gets better.

In the mean time I am still looking for the core file to have it removed all together... I found it in the theme templates but that serves no purpose.

I like followers. I think people really enjoy collecting followers.

​I can collect cars, trucks and motorcycles and yes friends. They are worth something... Followers are more like laundry. Soil them and throw them in a hamper.

​Facebook has both, as do other social networking iterations. Followers is more about notifications and Friends more about permissions and identification of relationships. I thought they'd go for both. I'm going to assume Friends isn't coming back soon, even though I appreciate your voicing your thoughts and @craigf136's and @Woodsman's enthusiastic efforts. I'm taking a bit of a hiatus. Good luck with the movement.

​Then you may want to take a closer look in 3.4.x and earlier on Friends and notifications.... You had choices to what you were going to accept or turn off.

I am usually not a fan of the “do it like Facebook” arguments (because IPS communities should rather concentrate on what Facebook cannot offer), but since it’s a matter of fact that we have friends in 3.4 and followers in 4.0, one could indeed say: do it like Facebook and all would be happy. And in this case, doing it like Facebook would also mean to give the users elaborate control over what notifications are received and through which channels.

​And this is done how? By turning off and not accepting what used to be friends? You can block the spam but in doing so you are also missing out on the notices that matter.

IPS for many of years never worried about being like somebody else... They only cared about putting out the best software that could possibly be developed. A rise above the rest where it came to the forums and applications that we know today where others are now trying to replicate. Without the vision of Invision most forums would still be looking like the 2.0 days and facebook and Twitter... Who knows if they would have even made it to the table.

And Yes the pun was intended.

Yes one could indeed say do it like facebook.... then again one could tell another to leap off a cliff as well.

And in this case, doing it like Facebook would also mean to give the users elaborate control over what notifications are received and through which channels.

You are absolutly correct.... But most in time if not already will call it the Spam channel. And the elaborate control you speak of is now a thing of the past.

Pride is being different. being one's self and not cloned to be like the rest.

​Here's what concerns me about these e-mail notifications - if people with yahoo, gmail, aol, outlook, etc. accounts cannot stop these e-mails and they become burdensome, they may be prone to simply marking them as spam.  Should that happen and your host turns off your ability to send out e-mails and new user validations, then your community is dead.

 

​There is no way out of the box to turn off the email or notifications. The only exception is to remove those that are now following you and not accept any followers... But sadly this also shuts down notifications you wnat to accept from the Follow This button. Whereas before you had choices.

.

[Woodsman]

​That's a valid concern.

We have an internal discussion taking place on improvements to the follow system.

​Does this include removing it from Core?

 

Ducking behind my Ram to avoid being ground pounded by Lindy's new Red Beast!

[opentype]

 

IPS for many of years never worried about being like somebody else... They only cared about putting out the best software that could possibly be developed. A rise above the rest where it came to the forums and applications that we know today where others are now trying to replicate. Without the vision of Invision most forums would still be looking like the 2.0 days and facebook and Twitter... Who knows if they would have even made it to the table.

​And still, I think that is irrelevant to the discussion of the specific functionalities of friends and followers. No one cares who had it first. Every car you can buy has similar functionalities. I don’t care who was the first one to put a radio in the center of the dashboard and who copied it. Why should that be an issue? It’s useful to have it and therefore all car makers do it this way. In the same way, software doing similar things offer similar functionalities. For example: I use the personal message system in IPS software. It’s useful to be able to contact other members privately. Did IPS invent it or someone else? I have no idea but I couldn’t care less. The Follower system is nothing else. It’s a possible way to connect on interactive websites. A user might not even have a Facebook account and then start to like this follower functionality on IPS 4.0. Are you really suggestion we should deny him this functionality for the only reason that another website also has this feature‽ 

[ZakRhyno]

​And still, I think that is irrelevant to the discussion of the specific functionalities of friends and followers. No one cares who had it first. Every car you can buy has similar functionalities. I don’t care who was the first one to put a radio in the center of the dashboard and who copied it. Why should that be an issue? It’s useful to have it and therefore all car makers do it this way. In the same way, software doing similar things offer similar functionalities. For example: I use the personal message system in IPS software. It’s useful to be able to contact other members privately. Did IPS invent it or someone else? I have no idea but I couldn’t care less. The Follower system is nothing else. It’s a possible way to connect on interactive websites. A user might not even have a Facebook account and then start to like this follower functionality on IPS 4.0. Are you really suggestion we should deny him this functionality for the only reason that another website also has this feature‽ 

​The current version of the system is not the best and need to be improve and @Lindy did say the be talking about it more.

[SJ77]

I am glad people are defending their perspective in this thread. It's awesome that we are able to do this in a mature way and discuss collectively. While we are at it, I will throw in my 2 cents. I think followers are GREAT. It's something I've wanted included in a social forum framework for sometime. It greatly appeals to the younger generation. It fuels egos and helps to make a site popular. Look, it's great to proudly show how many followers you have and it also means that you're making contributions that are worth following. It kind of makes more sense than friends in a way too, given the format almost always involves strangers.. How the hell can a stranger be a friend? What ends up happening is people will just add anyone as a friend because it's meaningless. However, following someone and agreeing to be notified when they update is about as big of an honor as one can have in this format. People won't just follow anyone.

Also "follow" in this sense has nothing to do with being a "follower" verses a leader.  That's just a nonsense perspective and it's totally immaterial to the topic before us.

I also like the concept of "friends" and I wish it were not going away. I am a proponent of having both!

[Woodsman]

The Follower system is nothing else. It’s a possible way to connect on interactive websites. A user might not even have a Facebook account and then start to like this follower functionality on IPS 4.0. Are you really suggestion we should deny him this functionality for the only reason that another website also has this feature‽

​The Follower system is not functional by any means as when it come to notifications as the Friends system was. Where today there are email settings that cannot be changed they are locked so therefore non-functional whereas the were in 3.4.X.

Spamming my email or notifications with tons of useless information is not my idea of functionality.

The sole purpose of notifications in the past was to let you know if A. Somebody was trying to contact you. B. To show if somebody quoted you in a topic. C. If somebody liked something you did or said.

This morning I came down to see 84 notifications in the tab.... 84 pieces of irrelevant nothing... Now these may be relevant to 84 other people but has not one thing to do with my questions or answers to help others.

My email also had 16 irrelevant pieces of nonsense... So where is your so called functionality? Spam is not a function it is an irritant. BTW as I just scrolled to the top there are another 47 notifications. How many do you suppose will have any relevance to me, my issues or anyone I am helping?

Also in terms Friends and Followers may mean nothing to you but these terms mean quite a bit to a good majority. These are 2 words both with different meanings...

This system may work for you but please don't be so bold as to think that the rest of us should follow. Because as you have stated many of times to show good cause for this topic you my friend have not said one word that really defends your stand. Only the words of a follower.... Twitter does it so should we. facebook likes it so should we....

Well my friend I don't like Followers and I have like others made a relevant point. You may like to follow. But don't expect to find me in your shadows.

 

 

 

 

[Woodsman]

I am glad people are defending their perspective in this thread. It's awesome that we are able to do this in a mature way and discuss collectively. While we are at it, I will throw in my 2 cents. I think followers are GREAT. It's something I've wanted included in a social forum framework for sometime. It greatly appeals to the younger generation. It fuels egos and helps to make a site popular. Look, it's great to proudly show how many followers you have and it also means that you're making contributions that are worth following. It kind of makes more sense than friends in a way too, given the format almost always involves strangers.. How the hell can a stranger be a friend? What ends up happening is people will just add anyone as a friend because it's meaningless. However, following someone and agreeing to be notified when they update is about as big of an honor as one can have in this format. People won't just follow anyone.

Also "follow" in this sense has nothing to do with being a "follower" verses a leader.  That's just a nonsense perspective and it's totally immaterial to the topic before us.

I also like the concept of "friends" and I wish it were not going away. I am a proponent of having both!

​I suppose if it is a ego trip one is after then I guess I will have to agree.

But let me ask you this... If say your home caught fire and burned to the ground. Who is going to take you in?

A follower on an ego trip or a friend?

[opentype]

​The Follower system is not functional by any means as when it come to notifications as the Friends system was. Where today there are email settings that cannot be changed they are locked so therefore non-functional whereas the were in 3.4.X.​

But can’t we just keep these different topics separated?

• Should there be a Follower system in IPS when that is a typical function of social media sites like Facebook?
• If there is a Follower system, how exactly should it work? What control do we need about notifications for example?
• Should we keep the fried system as well? Why? What are the specific uses and benefits?

Those are different questions which can be discussed separately and the discussions would be much more constructive if discussed separately. 

[SJ77]

​I suppose if it is a ego trip one is after then I guess I will have to agree.

But let me ask you this... If say your home caught fire and burned to the ground. Who is going to take you in?

A follower on an ego trip or a friend?

​What does that have to do with anything whatsoever? I am discussing if forum software should have a follower system not designing my disaster preparedness plan.

[SJ77]

But can’t we just keep these different topics separated?

• Should there be a Follower system in IPS when that is a typical function of social media sites like Facebook?
• If there is a Follower system, how exactly should it work? What control do we need about notifications for example?
• Should we keep the fried system as well? Why? What are the specific uses and benefits?

Those are different questions which can be discussed separately and the discussions would be much more constructively if discussed separately. 

​

[esquire]

I am glad people are defending their perspective in this thread. It's awesome that we are able to do this in a mature way and discuss collectively. While we are at it, I will throw in my 2 cents. I think followers are GREAT. It's something I've wanted included in a social forum framework for sometime. It greatly appeals to the younger generation. It fuels egos and helps to make a site popular. Look, it's great to proudly show how many followers you have and it also means that you're making contributions that are worth following. It kind of makes more sense than friends in a way too, given the format almost always involves strangers.. How the hell can a stranger be a friend? What ends up happening is people will just add anyone as a friend because it's meaningless. However, following someone and agreeing to be notified when they update is about as big of an honor as one can have in this format. People won't just follow anyone.

​Great comment. Followers or Stalkers (without the followed person's permissions as it is now) is an interesting feature for some communities and can be a powerful way to engage without needing Friends (which I think FB requires) and which may not be appropriate at times. I think both make for an incredibly flexible, powerful experience and satisfy the needs of a wide variety of different communites.

But can’t we just keep these different topics separated?

• Should there be a Follower system in IPS when that is a typical function of social media sites like Facebook?
• If there is a Follower system, how exactly should it work? What control do we need about notifications for example?
• Should we keep the fried system as well? Why? What are the specific uses and benefits?

Those are different questions which can be discussed separately and constructively. 

​The usefulness of the Friends system has been discussed extensively. Any social/family/dating/networking/neighborhood context for a community will very frequently involve friends, not followers. It is also the desire easily manage and create one-click private "trust" areas (image galleries, video, private blogs) that make sharing content among trusted people easily. Of course it's useful - unfortunately IPS doesn't make good use of it even though there is plenty of room. But the only perspective that matters is that "Followers" is the new Friends for IPS. Someone said on the beta site that they believe this system maximizes the amount of publicly created content and it is the direction they want to take the software. It's Twitter, not Social Networking.

I'm taking a break from here also to wait and see where important decisions are cemented. I don't believe the Follow system fits or is appropriate for some the social communities I run. I'll need to decide soon whether to try to wedge it back in somehow with a costly plugin (not confident) or find something else that better follows what I have and the community thrives upon and understands. Upgrading to IPS4 is a critical decision because all those friend relationships are gone.

[Woodsman]

But can’t we just keep these different topics separated?

• Should there be a Follower system in IPS when that is a typical function of social media sites like Facebook?
• If there is a Follower system, how exactly should it work? What control do we need about notifications for example?
• Should we keep the fried system as well? Why? What are the specific uses and benefits?

Those are different questions which can be discussed separately and the discussions would be much more constructive if discussed separately.

​This topic started out as Followers - Friends and my take on the meaning of the 2

But Lets see where did it change.

You are mixing 1.) your understanding of certain words with 2.) actual technical functionalities (friend system vs. subscriber system) and 3.) some general, almost philosophical considerations about the state of online communities and the companies behind them. That’s waaaay too messy and can’t lead anywhere. Can you maybe just pick one of these aspects and make a clear point about it? Otherwise it just feels like random rants about nothing and anything.

I like Friends, ​I dislike enemies, and I don't trust Followers.​

Should there be a Follower system in IPS when that is a typical function of social media sites like Facebook?

Both can work it will give back a choice of preference.

If there is a Follower system, how exactly should it work? What control do we need about notifications for example?

Its already in place just like th laundry... Its in spam cycle

Should we keep the fried system as well? Why? What are the specific uses and benefits?

This does not deserve another reply. It has been answered many times already.

 

[SJ77]

 I like Friends, ​I dislike enemies, and I don't trust Followers.

​A few facts for you:

"Friends" on a forum are not your friends.  It's a familiar word to describe a connection in a many to many table of user accounts. Albeit they might also be your real friends, the word has nothing to do with the former. It's nomenclature to describe joining of two records. A relationship in database records.

"Followers" on a forum has nothing to do with people who stalk you or want to be like you. It's also a forum term to describe a process of joining user records in a database. Only with different functionality than the aforementioned friends system.

I suggest that instead arguing over silly semantics we discuss the functionality of each system. I could care less if it's called friends, followers, or magic unicorns. What does it do? That is what matters here.

[Woodsman]

​What does that have to do with anything whatsoever? I am discussing if forum software should have a follower system not designing my disaster preparedness plan.

You posted about ego's ?I answered.

People with Ego's are another waste of my time... The whole attitude of Hey LOOK AT ME SEE WHAT I CAN DO!

Yeah So what?