• Jay • Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I didn't want to derail the thread where I saw the following post, but it reminded me of an issue that I take with the service. Please do [u]NOT[/u] flag people as spammers if they are not spammers. This type of false data in the spam service hurts everyone who uses the Spam Service by possibly causing a false-positive and blocking real members. Thank you, This is a valid point. However, the reality of the situation is that abusive administrators will use the feature in an attempt to do just that any time they simply don't like a member. Even administrators who are not abusive towards members may use the "Report as Spammer" link as a one-click ban tool if they are not technically inclined (or simply lazy). As much as I respect the efforts made by IPS to combat spam, I believe this method is too similar to SFS (stopforumspam.com) to be considered a reliable service. If you're wondering how the two are alike, behold. The IPS Anti-Spam service merely automates the same process for its own service. A far more reliable method for combating spam is Project Honeypot. Their system works in a completely different way, collecting its own data without allowing people to inject legitimate information into the database. Anybody that has been with IPS for a long while knows that I am no fan of touting the benefits of competing products, but this is one situation where I believe the customers would benefit the most if IPS took a serious look at the flaw in their own service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Charles Posted September 18, 2012 Management Share Posted September 18, 2012 Just because an admin marks a user as spam does not mean they instantly get black listed on our service. We accounted for abuse long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H. Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 They use a scaling system based on a variety of factors (including email, IP, and more--I think). You can choose yourself what various certainty levels result in on your website--you can only block the most likely, you can put everyone into review. One stray report from one site does not result in a total ban from all sites using the spam service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
• Jay • Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Just because an admin marks a user as spam does not mean they instantly get black listed on our service. We accounted for abuse long ago. As I mentioned in the OP, my concerns are not just about abuse. It's also about laziness and ignorance. Even if every license holder could be made to understand the importance of the appropriate use of flagging accounts as spammers (which isn't very likely in itself) , that still leaves secondary administrators and super moderators out of the loop and likely to misuse the functionality out of convenience. They use a scaling system based on a variety of factors (including email, IP, and more--I think). You can choose yourself what various certainty levels result in on your website--you can only block the most likely, you can put everyone into review. That means little considering the admin making that decision will likely know nothing about the account holder they're responsible for passing judgment on. The easy way out is just to deny registration to anybody that gets a hit from the service, under the rationale that, "Well, if they're listed they must have done something wrong." One stray report from one site does not result in a total ban from all sites using the spam service. I never said it did. You have a limited perspective if you think this is about a single site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Charles Posted September 18, 2012 Management Share Posted September 18, 2012 We have rules and weighting in place to mitigate abuse. Some communities are given a lower weighting while others are "trusted" and if they click flag as spammer just one time it does indeed ban that account. We obviously won't tell you which installs are trusted :smile: Your points are valid but it's something we thought through to make sure isn't an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIF Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 IS this the same as the hook, stopforumspam which I loaded already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DKiwi Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 IS this the same as the hook, stopforumspam which I loaded already? No. 2 different systems. I run both and have virtually zero spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIF Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Great idea. I'm looking in the marketplace for "IPS Anti-Spam Service" but don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The Spam Service is built-in to IP.Board, it's not a separate application. To configure it, go to ACP -> System Settings -> Members sub-tab -> Spam Prevention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIF Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Perfect. Thank you for the quick reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
• Jay • Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 IS this the same as the hook, stopforumspam which I loaded already? The ProjectHoneyPot side of that hook is great, but I advise against anyone using StopForumSpam because it is used to blacklist regular people as spammers. My own IP, username, and e-mail address is listed in that database because I angered a corrupt admin. I don't trust any system that can be directly manipulated by its users in that fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The ProjectHoneyPot side of that hook is great, but I advise against anyone using StopForumSpam because it is used to blacklist regular people as spammers. My own IP, username, and e-mail address is listed in that database because I angered a corrupt admin. I don't trust any system that can be directly manipulated by its users in that fashion. And this is (partially) why we rolled our own service instead of relying upon a third party service to handle the spam checks. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrem Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 My own IP, username, and e-mail address is listed in that database because I angered a corrupt admin. I don't trust any system that can be directly manipulated by its users in that fashion. Regarding the second point, it's always good to set the limits higher, meaning the user has to be reported a number of times in the database before the hook denies them. However open systems such as SFS are good for first response to new waves of spammers (I remember it took weeks for IPS's service to catch up at the start of the year) because they can be reported straight away. However SFS lacks a system that processes them later to identify real spambots and discard falsely listed people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIF Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Good points, my forum went live (it was an existing forum) and we received 30+ spammers. Is there an 'auto' way to flush/delete them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Good points, my forum went live (it was an existing forum) and we received 30+ spammers. Is there an 'auto' way to flush/delete them? You should ensure that your license key is entered in your ACP, and then ensure that your spam system settings are configured appropriate (use the live search to look for "spam" in your ACP and you'll find the settings quickly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIF Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Does it delete the users after they sign up? I see hundreds of them just sitting there in the Members as "banned' for example see below. I dont need them to even be on the forum data. I want to mass delete them dddddd ogftgffae@gmail.com 26 minutes ago Validating(Banned) 91.1.134.33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teraßyte Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 No, the IPS Spam service bans their account but doesn't delete the account itself. You'd need to routinely list banned members in your ACP and mass-delete them manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIF Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ty for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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