3rd party developer activity indicator

[jair101]

I want to suggest some additional custom profile field for marketplace contributors that displays their activity. It can be measured by number of logins for a given period (much like the HOT topic highlight), number of file updates, etc. This way it will be much easier for potential customers to recognize if a given app is still well supported by its author or is abandoned. This is a real issue on the marketplace, there are so many paid addons still available for purchase that are simply left behind and the developer provides zero or no support. Many of them even have renewal fees, which I find most cynical since these renewal fees are supposed to be exactly for the ongoing support.  Especially with the rapid cycle of IPS releases nowadays it is of crucial importance to know that the guy behind an addon is currently active in the community and will probably keep up with the IPS updates. Activity is a well established indicator for support - you have it on facebook pages, where there is an indicator for responsiveness, you have it in AirBnB reservations where you see the responsiveness of the host, etc. 

I've been burned twice already for the total amount of $42 - first one is a skin by a developer who was very active and supportive in the 3.x series, started really strong on 4.x, but at some point apparently gave up. Another case was a plugin for $12 that was initially ok, but after a couple of IPS upgrades issues started piling up and the intially responsive developer is nowhere to be found. And I am far from a heavy marketplace customer, I try to choose my addons carefully and there are a couple of paid apps which looked nice on the outside, but when I checked the support topic the last few posts were by people desperately looking for support and no developer to help them. 

I know that some people perceive tracking activity as an invasion of privacy, thats why the anonymous login is available, but I also believe that the interest of marketplace customers is more important. This way you can really highlight the most active developers here (for example I am not sure if Adriano is a single person or there is a pro team behind his nick, he provides quality support to so many apps, it is unbelievable) and push the others to be more active as well, knowing that if their activity is displayed it will mean better trust in the potential customers. . 

It doesn't have to be overly complicated - if a developer logs in at least once a day, give him green contributor badge, if he logs in 2 times a week - make it yellow, if he hadn't logged in in the last month - make it red. Of course these are very basic, I am sure you can determine the amount of activity required to properly support marketplace purchases. 

In the end it is not a universal solution and activity does not equal quality and fast support, but at least it is something. It can even be a nice extension for the suite - to highlight the most active members of the community, etc. 

[jair101]

Ok, I will add some suggestions how this can be done, starting from the simplest and least effective to the more involved. 

- Disable anonymous login for the contributor group. Simple - before I buy something I want to know when was the last time the developer logged in here. It is not a great help for sure, but at least it is something. 

- Different color contributor badges based on number of logins for a given period. As explained in my initial post. 

- Activity line chart for the last X months. Similar to the previous point, but instead of one colored icon it will show the activity of the developer for some period as a line chart. 

In addition to this idea, wouldn't it be nice to reward the active developers here with some extras? How about personal bug tracker or at least a separate subforum? I know that many developers have setup personal websites for better support of their app, simply because it is hard to support a complicated app via a simple support topic which is the best IPS can offer to them as of now. I think this will encourage the developers to stay here, improve the showcase of their products and in general everyone will benefit. Of course, not everyone will get these extras, but for well established developers with X apps valued at $Y, etc, it will definitely help.  

[Adriano Faria]

3 minutes ago, jair101 said:

- Disable anonymous login for the contributor group. Simple - before I buy something I want to know when was the last time the developer logged in here. It is not a great help for sure, but at least it is something

This has nothing to do with a resource being properly supported. My last visit date, for example, is October 20, 2016 and I fully support all my resources every single day. In the other hand, there are people with this date updated daily and do not support their stuff as it should.

What a user must do is read file reviews, read The entire support topic to see how the dev handles with bugs and suggestions. THIS is important. Update alast visit date, don't. 

And btw, I'm a single person. 

[jair101]

2 minutes ago, Adriano Faria said:

This has nothing to do with a resource being properly supported. My last visit date, for example, is October 20, 2016 and I fully support all my resources every single day. In the other hand, there are people with this date updated daily and do not support their stuff as it should.

What a user must do is read file reviews, read The entire support topic to see how the dev handles with bugs and suggestions. THIS is important. Update alast visit date, don't. 

Yeah, thats why I said starting from the simplest and least effective  I am sure there are examples both ways, but in general if you see that developer hadn't logged in a month then this is already a red flag. 

 

[Adriano Faria]

2 minutes ago, jair101 said:

but in general if you see that developer hadn't logged in a month then this is already a red flag

That's what I tried to say... do you prefer to see a last visit date than read topics/reviews to take a purchase decision? If so, you're doing it wrong.

I've made hundreds of posts since the last time I logged in... so that would make me a bad developer? That would show that I don't support my stuff?

That don't measure anything. 

[Joel R]

22 minutes ago, Adriano Faria said:

My last visit date, for example, is October 20, 2016

Shouldn't your last visit date be ... today?  

[Adriano Faria]

1 minute ago, Joel R said:

Shouldn't your last visit date be ... today?  

I'm logging anonymously lately.

[jair101]

2 minutes ago, Adriano Faria said:

That's what I tried to say... do you prefer to see a last visit date than read topics/reviews to take a purchase decision? If so, you're doing it wrong.

I've made hundreds of posts since the last time I logged in... so that would make me a bad developer? That would show that I don't support my stuff?

That don't measure anything. 

I don't want to have one or the other, I want to read reviews, topics AND see recent activity. And you have hundreds of post since last login simply because the anonymous login is available to you, if it isn't it will show that you are constantly active, thus increasing your credibility in the eyes of potential customer. Right now when I see your login date I know that it is based on anon login, so yeah, it doesn't show anything. 

Topics and reviews don't mean anything on their own either. Lack of reviews - means really nothing as on average very few people leave reviews. Is this app by you somehow inferior if it is lacking reviews? What is the lack of reviews telling me except that very few people bought it and maybe it is a niche product, which is not related at all to the quality of the app? 

 Support topics - also nothing if there isn't an active discussion there. Not to mention that developers have the option to offer PM support only, which keeps potential customer totally blind for all issues. 

I don't want to have one or the other, I want to have all. And I consider the currently available tools to help a customer make an informant purchase decision insufficient. 

[Pete T]

4 minutes ago, jair101 said:

I don't want to have one or the other, I want to read reviews, topics AND see recent activity. And you have hundreds of post since last login simply because the anonymous login is available to you, if it isn't it will show that you are constantly active, thus increasing your credibility in the eyes of potential customer. Right now when I see your login date I know that it is based on anon login, so yeah, it doesn't show anything. 

Topics and reviews don't mean anything on their own either. Lack of reviews - means really nothing as on average very few people leave reviews. Is this app by you somehow inferior if it is lacking reviews? What is the lack of reviews telling me except that very few people bought it and maybe it is a niche product, which is not related at all to the quality of the app? 

 Support topics - also nothing if there isn't an active discussion there. Not to mention that developers have the option to offer PM support only, which keeps potential customer totally blind for all issues. 

I don't want to have one or the other, I want to have all. And I consider the currently available tools to help a customer make an informant purchase decision insufficient. 

Sorry but the suggestion have indicator when we online or when we update items will not work ! like @Adriano Faria you have many people login daily but will not look at support topics and never reply to them, or have dev login once a week but update support topics on that day because he/she has been busy personal life then have devs updates files daily or weekly but might not reply all support topics because update might fix the issues. 

Then on next case reviews if look few app/plugins under mine see few had issues but now all working fine but that bad review gets questions does work or will it work for x version ? well maybe ask the dev see working demo if they can provide them lot of dev will work localhost so might be hard but we can help where and when every dev is different so your idea might look good but so many items at play that will not work.

[Adriano Faria]

 

22 minutes ago, jair101 said:

s this app by you somehow inferior if it is lacking reviews? What is the lack of reviews telling m

It's funny you show a link because  it is an annoying behaviour from users: if the resource works 100% one or another user do waste their time to submit a review. But if has one tiny little issue, then 1 star review, post in the topic, private message, refund request. A complete carnival! ? 

22 minutes ago, jair101 said:

Topics and reviews don't mean anything on their own either.

Seriously? I see people online all the time that doesn't support their resources so well. A support topic without an "an active" discussion doesn't mean that people doesn't care. It's quite opposite actually. A support topic is for... well, support. If the resource works, why would someone post a support request in the topic?

To put it simply: we aren't evn required to give any support here on IPS, thus I don't need to be online all the time. I can provide support in my board only. 

22 minutes ago, jair101 said:

I don't want to have one or the other, I want to have all. And I consider the currently available tools to help a customer make an informant purchase decision insufficient. 

In the end, you want to have both and I want to keep my right of keep logging in anonymously. Every coin has 2 sides.

Anyway, it's a feedback to IPS. I just wanted to state that I disagree.

[jair101]

That's ok, of course we can have different opinions. But I think you guys are looking purely from the point of view of developers and not the point of view of the customers. I don't mean to invade your privacy, but something like this:

can only help you guys and distinguish the serious people that provide good support, even though they don't have to, from the ones that this is just a basic hobby. 

Something like this can help both sides:

 

 

 

Yeah, its not a magical cure, but at least it is something. It shouldn't be mandatory either, on Airbnb there are thousands of hosts that don't have superhost badge, but still provide quality service. But if the developer in question had such a badge, maybe this situation wouldn't happen:

How can reading the support topic (mostly empty and with positive comments since the plugin used to work ok) and reviews (only one 5* one left by me back when everything was ok) can inform me that I have to wait at least 2 weeks for PM reply?

 

[Cyboman]

Thanks a lot for posting these thoughts. I could imagine that they could also be valuable for IPS management ( @Lindy ) I was considering to post a similar topic due to the latest failouts of renowned plugins like "account deactivation", but there are a lot other apps, plugins, designs aso that all of a sudden ended without support and finally disappeared completely from the marketplace. All contact to the authors breaks up unforeseeable, PMs and mails won't be responded to anymore, the codes fail to work in the communities, but are still offered to be purchased via IPS marketplace. We're totally left alone. That's a way to bring ones business down and generate great damage! We, the customers, rely on applications, plugins, support and ongoing maintenance. And we don't just buy plugins "to have some fun with" or experiment a few months with. We put a lot effort into these plugins by ourselves, too:

What some of us are doing is:

• Thoroughly plan the implementation and add it to internal documentations
• Formulate an overall business strategy that relies on working plugins, define processes and workflows that wont work without functional plugins
• Translate all the language strings into foreign languages
• Give out action instructions to the staff member who handle plugin maintenance and according frontend operations
• We invest in lawyers to check if the plugins comply with national and continental laws, integrate mandatory mechanisms into terms & conditions as well as privacy declarations, that are formally binding
• Pay all fees for purchase and renewals
• Last not least we start selling some premium memberships and go into contract with customers, that won't accept interruptions

Imagine how much time and money is invested on client side if you deploy plugins in a professional manner. It's immense and in many cases even more than was invested to code the plugin itself.

I understand every point of view in this conversation, but there should be a convenient, trustworthy solution for all requirements by coders (authors) and customers. If someone offers software for money, it has to function exactly according to the product description. It's a promise, a contract, and if IPS acts as a broker and selling partner, they are - at least in a way - co-responsible that customers won't get dumped. Even if IPS says, it's completely our choice if we want to go with a product or not, they are still required to prevent from fraud. And, it doesn't matter how you see it, as a customer, you always have a legal operability and maintenance agreement with the author unless he doesn't declare any terms with clear, relieving statements in the product description. I can't imagine america (as the location which legal rights will be applicable) acts as a banana republic. Be aware.

But to get to the constructive point and prevent all interest sides from damage:

I suggest to develop some certification program consisting of IPS or a special team of well known coders, that give out some key figures, operating numbers...

Facts that should be considered are:

• any number concerning software author support activity
• if a public support thread is offered at all
• if the author publishes his real name and business address
• how long the author is an IPS community member and contributor
• an option for the author to state about the plans of ongoing development
• customer satisfaction degree (star rating)
• if an author would be willing to transfer his work to another developer if he can't go on with support
• and so on. Currently I don't have the time to analyse and define this for you on 20 pages... If IPS is interested, they can hire me

All of these informations could be combined into a single total trustworthiness percentage number. And get a color for quick preview. Or a special digital seal of approval and quality. It should be rare and given out only to the best authors in the marketplace.

It takes quite an amount of time and work to become such an approved seal possessor. But you can loose it even faster:

If an author really disappears suddenly for weeks and months, the seal will be gone for a long time and associated customers from the IPS marketplace should be informed (notification / email), that the author no longer is an possessor of such a seal. So we, as customers, can see who is recommended for superior professional services and have a bit more trust into authors and feel somehow protected. And we also recognize, when it will be time, to think about replacements!

On the other hand, I believe, possessors of such a seal will sell their software addons a lot better. They earn a lot more money. It's a win-win for all.

 

[AlexJ]

Not only you are burned with 3rd party mod developers disappearing over the period of time. I have spent more then 100$ for the add-ons who's developers are now, no where to find. I have learned lesson hard way. I stopped buying addons from new developers and stick with old developers whom, I have known for the years. 

[jair101]

On 3.4 it wasn't such a big deal, because the update cycle by IPS was longer, it was quite possible to find abandoned mods that were robust enough and still work on 3.4.9, after being developed on 3.4.0. It seems that it is not the case for the 4.x series and continuous support and updates are often required. That's why there should be some way to distinguish the developers that provide support and are serious, from those that are just for fun. 

I understand that you might not agree with the solution proposed by me, but that doesn't mean that the problem does not exist.

 

[Simon Woods]

One good step in this process would be for IPS to conduct research into these issues. There is no sign that this is happening and IPS make it easy to assume that either they are incapable or don't care.

[jair101]

40 minutes ago, Simon Woods said:

One good step in this process would be for IPS to conduct research into these issues. There is no sign that this is happening and IPS make it easy to assume that either they are incapable or don't care.

There are definitely signs that this is happening and I can provide concrete examples, I have more important things to do then make things up. So far I just want to avoid name calling, because this is not confined to one or two developers. But yes, it is up to IPS to decide how much of an issue this is and if they want to get involved.

AlexJ and me already made the decision to reduce our marketplace purchases to the absolute minimum and only with proven devs. Without a doubt others will join us too, they just need to burn a few $ first. Which is a pity, because this decreases the value of the marketplace and the entire suite as a whole. 

Another issue is that when one mod is available, other devs are not willing to duplicate its functionality, which is understandable, there is hardly a market for competition in 3rd party modifications here, IPS is not Wordpress. But when the existing mod is buggy and not well supported, this actually shuts the door for everyone. There are examples for this too. 

 

[Simon Woods]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I mean there is no sign that IPS are putting any effort into researching this issue; every now and then Lindy might say something or the other senior members of the team will post a snarky reply to somebody but other than that there is no obvious effort from IPS to help improve this aspect of the third-party environment.

I think there should be more from IPS and agree with a lot of what has been said here; I'm just not confident IPS are capable of using only these feedback forums to gain good quality information. There should be a different approach from them but it's difficult to have much hope for this since they seem to be struggling as it is with other issues.