3.5.x series

[Flo44]

Hello, 3.4 and 4.0 are completly different software and some of us prefer stay on the 3.x serie because 4.x doesn't match with what we want to do with our forum. Why don't release a last x.X.x series to fine tune and improve the software (add some little things useful like : privacy setting, tagging system more efficient, 2step auth etc...). as far as I am concerned some kind of community are not upgradable to 4.x because it is another kind of software and it will break the "soul/spirit" created with 3.4. it could be very interesting for some admin to add some pre4.0 feedback (some things present in xenforo for instance, and implement them in 3.5 etc.) to create a more stable (in terms of parameters) and competitor software for the next years for close knit community.

=> improve 3.x to create a perfect software. Avoid looking for the latest things released in the ICT (4.x) : avoid adding some childish things spinning or other things that everyone don't care.

=>=> Better things are simpler. We need a forum not the latest editor, api or i don't know what that has been released yesterday : most forum run phpbb/mybb that is a very old software compared to ipb3.

[MADMAN32395]

Change must be very scary for you.

[AndyF]

Similar thoughts were also aired when the first 3x versions appeared from those who wanted to stay with 2x...

I would say if you wanted to stay with the 3x series to ensure you are running the latest version at least, that's currently 3.4.8

There's no mass hurry to update to 4x as 34x will remain supported for a while yet, it goes EOL 1st April 2017, so that's quite a way away...

 

[TSP]

I look forward to if they announce it once more on 1st April 2017 and everyone will believe it's a joke

[EvilDragon]

On 9/22/2015, 4:29:44, MADMAN32395 said:

Change must be very scary for you.

Well, it depends. Thanks to the Javascript editor, IPB4 are too slow to use on older devices like the OpenPandora, whereas v3.4 worked perfectly.

So yes, that's a major drawback for me, even though I'm not afraid of change.

[Izaya Orihara]

@/contingency @EvilDragon

It would be a nightmare and headache trying to support clients on 3.X and 4.X

Even Microsoft is not adding features to Windows 7 or 8 not that 10 is released. IOS 9 has been released and Apple isn't going back to add features into IOS 8.

There's a cookie tracker from Digitalpoint that shows the percentage of users on a software's platform and it has shown that 4.X has not only eclipsed/past 3.X in terms of live sites using it but it is now on more than half. I expect those numbers to drop for 3.X even more.

I think instead of expecting them to support a product that is outdated by today's standards and not competitive in the least with new features, we should push them to better 4.X to not only match your needs with 3.X but also to set a new standard for 4.X(which they are already doing).

[Morrigan]

On 9/22/2015, 8:04:30, AndyF said:

Similar thoughts were also aired when the first 3x versions appeared from those who wanted to stay with 2x...

I would say if you wanted to stay with the 3x series to ensure you are running the latest version at least, that's currently 3.4.8

There's no mass hurry to update to 4x as 34x will remain supported for a while yet, it goes EOL 1st April 2017, so that's quite a way away...

 

 

19 minutes ago, Izaya Orihara said:

@/contingency @EvilDragon

It would be a nightmare and headache trying to support clients on 3.X and 4.X

Even Microsoft is not adding features to Windows 7 or 8 not that 10 is released. IOS 9 has been released and Apple isn't going back to add features into IOS 8.

There's a cookie tracker from Digitalpoint that shows the percentage of users on a software's platform and it has shown that 4.X has not only eclipsed/past 3.X in terms of live sites using it but it is now on more than half. I expect those numbers to drop for 3.X even more.

I think instead of expecting them to support a product that is outdated by today's standards and not competitive in the least with new features, we should push them to better 4.X to not only match your needs with 3.X but also to set a new standard for 4.X(which they are already doing).

I want to say both of these are true.

I, first off, would never ask a software developer to go backwards as that's detrimental to moving forward and by all means, as @AndyF has said these same things happened when it went from the 2.x series to the 3.x series. Eventually the up to date wins on these because they are bringing the software up to date to modern internet standards. To me it's like saying "I won't upgrade XP because I like it better" it doesn't mean that Microsoft will continue to support it when they have come out with 4 new operating systems since the development (not including server versions or 8.1 as it's own OS). Software develops and you aren't expected to upgrade immediately but if you get a new Computer you won't get XP on it even if you want it same thing with internet software. Eventually the software will move on and you can wait, which is perfectly reasonable, or jump on board and move forward with it, which is fun and perfectly reasonable as well.

You certainly need to make the best decision for your community but I will say that I've had a better time with 4.0 in terms of management, members finding things, skinning and all around organization since it came out. There are things that I have requested to be fixed/improved but I can't even look at a 3.4 site and think that it's even comparable to a 4.0 stock site.

[CP]

In the long term keeping up to date is best. I know someone who runs 3.4.6 and says "Why" to me. Well, I know in the long term keeping up to date will pay off. And I know in the in the long term I will be better off then he is.

With the updates that IPS is doing and coders making plugins and applications over time 4.0 will beat 3.0 in my opinion. As with anything new, like 4.0 and soon to be released 4.1, things will improve with time. I will admit, 3.0 was good and I liked it a lot. But as with all things, things change and believe me when I say, I do not like change. At 1st I did not like the direction IPS was going but after I opened my mind to the changes I had a change of heart. 

[EvilDragon]

Well, I've done the update to 4.0 as I'm happy about further development, that's for sure.

But that doesn't mean that users of low-power systems (like the Raspberry Pi, etc.) should be left out - and the new editor is too slow on these systems.
So an optional, more simple editor for those users would be a great update for the new board version.

Maybe even the old editor can somehow be released as a plugin - as that was working perfectly even with low-power systems.

[Charles]

We do not really support niche technology. 

[EvilDragon]

I didn't know the widely sold Raspberry Pi is a niche device.

Well, sad to say after I've used IPB since V2 (I guess that was over 10 years ago...), but it seems like I need to stop supporting it and look for some other forum software.

Thanks for everything you've done so far, sad to see you are not trying to include suggestions and work on improvements.

[Tom S.]

14 hours ago, EvilDragon said:

Well, it depends. Thanks to the Javascript editor, IPB4 are too slow to use on older devices like the OpenPandora, whereas v3.4 worked perfectly.

Looks like something from the 90's. What do people even use it for? Are you seriously suggesting that IPS need to worry about anyone using that thing?

[EvilDragon]

1 minute ago, Tom S. said:

Looks like something from the 90's. What do people even use it for? Are you seriously suggesting that IPS need to worry about anyone using that thing?

It's from 2010, still being used today by quite a few members and that was only an example.

The same applies for the Raspberry Pi (still widely used) or any other low-power devices like older Smartphones (i.e. Samsung galaxy GT-S7500 doesn't work at all).
Yes, there are communities around such devices, and the Pandora community (which derived from the GP2X and GP32 community) was always using IPB (v2 and v3) and have recently switched to v4.

Now I'm having disappointed community members (over 9000 members and 399459 posts) because the boards don't really work anymore for them.
That's only the Pandora community though - as mentioned, anyone using a Raspberry Pi to browse the web will have the same issues.

I was not asking to fully replace the editor (why should I, if it works nicely on a desktop computer?), but having an optional editor for slower systems would make the new boards perfect. I didn't expect it right away, but some time in the future. But if that's absolute not being considered, then it's time to leave.

A board full of unhappy community members doesn't help me.
 

[Tom S.]

5 minutes ago, EvilDragon said:

It's from 2010, still being used today by quite a few members and that was only an example.

The same applies for the Raspberry Pi (still widely used) or any other low-power devices like older Smartphones (i.e. Samsung galaxy GT-S7500 doesn't work at all).
Yes, there are communities around such devices, and the Pandora community (which derived from the GP2X and GP32 community) was always using IPB (v2 and v3) and have recently switched to v4.

Now I'm having disappointed community members (over 9000 members and 399459 posts) because the boards don't really work anymore for them.
That's only the Pandora community though - as mentioned, anyone using a Raspberry Pi to browse the web will have the same issues.

I was not asking to fully replace the editor (why should I, if it works nicely on a desktop computer?), but having an optional editor for slower systems would make the new boards perfect. I didn't expect it right away, but some time in the future. But if that's absolute not being considered, then it's time to leave.

A board full of unhappy community members doesn't help me.
 

Fair enough. I'm curious why people use such "low power" devices though. I understand they can be cheap and used as learning devices or for side projects. But I never thought anyone would chose to use it for general day to day use. Just get a cheap laptop if that's the case, no?

[EvilDragon]

The Pandora, for example, is the size of a Nintendo DS which makes it a lot more portable than a laptop. The battery lasts for 12 hours usage time.

You can use it in the bus, train, etc. without having the need for a table, and it has got a keyboard which makes typing a lot more convenient as normal modern Smartphones.

At home, people use the Raspberry Pi as it can easily be used for web surfing, watching videos, etc. and runs with only a few Watt. So for saving power and having a small internet device directly connected to your TV.
In fact, modern TVs even provide enough power to power up the Pi, so connect HDMI and USB and you've turned your TV into a small internet capable device with a full desktop.

Also, not everyone wants to get a new smartphone every few years. I know quite a few who use it as long as it lasts.

I really planned to continue using IPB (I even just recently extended the license), but I can't do that if it doesn't work anymore with my community.
If a fix was being planned for that in the long run, then I would've waited a bit, but as nothing like that is planned, it doesn't make any sense.

Apparently, I'm not the only one feeling like that, look how many want to migrate from IPB4 to XenForo:

Look how many want to migrate from IPB4 to XenForo:
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/ipb-4-0-importer.96085/

It's sad to see, IPB were my long-time-favourite boards, great support and help with all issues, but that issue is being totally blocked off when it's being mentioned.

[Tom S.]

Christ XenForo looks like IPB2. What are those people thinking?

[EvilDragon]

8 minutes ago, Tom S. said:

Christ XenForo looks like IPB2. What are those people thinking?

I also had to redesign the theme of IPB4 a lot, since it has so many unused spaces (you can see it at http://boards.openpandora.org/)
Everyone has a different taste, but that's not a problem as you can easily create different themes and offer them to the users.
You could create a theme in almost every forum software to make it look similar to any other forum software.

More important than the looks are the functions. XenForo also offers activity streams, Trophies, notifications, addons, etc.
It could be that it has some things missing that are included in IPB4 (haven't checked their speed, etc. yet), but they also got some things IPB4 doesn't have.

That's perfectly fine, that's why different software exist.
But the core of a forum software is the editor - and if that doesn't work for me, I don't care about the other features.

I just registered for a test: They even use CKEditor as well (like with IPB4), but with one click you can switch to a simple BBCode editor instead.
That's the only thing I was missing with IPB4 and was exactly was I suggested here.
And as it's a core feature, I can't help but switch as well I guess :/

[Tom S.]

2 minutes ago, EvilDragon said:

I also had to redesign the theme of IPB4 a lot, since it has so many unused spaces (you can see it at http://boards.openpandora.org/)
Everyone has a different taste, but that's not a problem as you can easily create different themes and offer them to the users.
You could create a theme in almost every forum software to make it look similar to any other forum software.

More important than the looks are the functions. XenForo also offers activity streams, Trophies, notifications, addons, etc.
It could be that it has some things missing that are included in IPB4 (haven't checked their speed, etc. yet), but they also got some things IPB4 doesn't have.

That's perfectly fine, that's why different software exist.
But the core of a forum software is the editor - and if that doesn't work for me, I don't care about the other features.

I just registered for a test: They even use CKEditor as well (like with IPB4), but with one click you can switch to a simple BBCode editor instead.
That's the only thing I was missing with IPB4 and was exactly was I suggested here.
And as it's a core feature, I can't help but switch as well I guess :/

Have you thought of maybe hiring a developer to build that functionality for you? Not sure how much that would cost or if it's viable. But might be a better option than completely switching boards.

[Dll]

35 minutes ago, EvilDragon said:

Apparently, I'm not the only one feeling like that, look how many want to migrate from IPB4 to XenForo:

Look how many want to migrate from IPB4 to XenForo:
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/ipb-4-0-importer.96085/

It's sad to see, IPB were my long-time-favourite boards, great support and help with all issues, but that issue is being totally blocked off when it's being mentioned.

Oh no, I think there are at least 6 people wanting to switch - I imagine Lindy, Charles and Matt are locked in a board meeting right now to decide how to avert the crisis!

[AndyF]

27 minutes ago, Tom S. said:

Christ XenForo looks like IPB2. What are those people thinking?

I think I'd rather use IPB 2x than XF to be honest.

Talking of editors I thought XF used Redactor but I'm not sure I've not looked for ages.

3 minutes ago, Tom S. said:

Have you thought of maybe hiring a developer to build that functionality for you? Not sure how much that would cost or if it's viable. But might be a better option than completely switching boards.

That sounds a sensible thought. It would be worth asking to see if anyone can assist.

 

[EvilDragon]

9 minutes ago, Dll said:

Oh no, I think there are at least 6 people wanting to switch - I imagine Lindy, Charles and Matt are locked in a board meeting right now to decide how to avert the crisis!

Those are the few ones that post. There probably are more who simply did it or followed other guides. Or who switched to other forums. There are a lot out there.
It's not a crisis, but if I would find out that long-time customers are starting to move to different forum software and some even tell WHY, I would think of the reason and discuss whether it would be worth fixing that or not. In my case it's just a simple feature.

12 minutes ago, AndyF said:

I think I'd rather use IPB 2x than XF to be honest.

Talking of editors I thought XF used Redactor but I'm not sure I've not looked for ages.

Right now I'd rather use IPB2x than IPB4x as well
Heck, I didn't even find out here in the editor how I can split your quote so that I can reply to each sentence alone.
If I could switch to BBCode editing, that would be a breeze - but I was not able to figure it out here.

As far as I read, XenForo uses CKEditor with Redactor to speed it up (since 2012 or so). But you can use different editors via Plugins as well, if you like.
And it has that magical BBCode source button built-in.

20 minutes ago, Tom S. said:

Have you thought of maybe hiring a developer to build that functionality for you? Not sure how much that would cost or if it's viable. But might be a better option than completely switching boards.

Yes, actually, I have.
Right now I don't know whether different editors are being supported as plugins in IPB4 or whether the editor is a core feature.

And even then, it might break with a later ugprade of IPB4x and I don't plan to pay for another upgrade of the plugin again and again and again.

 

[Rikki]

To everyone, please don't be dismissive of feedback from other people, it's not helpful.

@EvilDragon The editor is really central to everything in IPS4 - it wouldn't be easy to pull it out and replace it unfortunately. What you could do is stop CKEditor loading so it just shows a textbox, but the user experience for this isn't great - users would have to type in HTML by hand, and things like quoting posts wouldn't work right. That's what happens if you use our software with JS disabled, if you want to try it out. It may be an option for you perhaps. It's kind of a 'bare minimum' functionality, but it's there.

While you naturally have a valid case where the editor isn't right for you, for the vast majority of our clients and their users, CKEditor loading isn't a problem. We've tested it on old phones and so forth, and it works fine. Supporting devices like Raspberry Pi simply isn't one of our goals, unfortunately.

[EvilDragon]

That's sad

Especially seeing that basically the same thing works with XenForo - CKEditor with a button to switch to BBCode mode.
And there even is a BBCode plugin for CKEditor available that works with IPB4 - only when you click the EDIT-Button, it shows HTML inside the editor, so the conversion doesn't work anymore.

But it won't help, seems like I really have to switch, after a long time.

Thanks for your support for the last year - and all the best wishes :)