Disappointed With IPB 2.2

[OverDriveAdamJ]

I have really got to say that I am disappointed with the overall offerings of IPB 2.2. The changes that were made were absolutely necessary and I agree with many of them. The text size in the RTE, the RTE improvements itself, the simplification of the RTE, all make 2.2 a worthy upgrade. However, it has really still left me disappointed with just how little has changed. There are also problems with the RTE. When you insert a URL into the post, an continue to type text after the inserted URL, it all goes into the URL no matter what. You cannot end the hyperlink by starting a new word, even after inserting blank space or line breaks. I had to toggle HTML source option to physically force it to end the hyperlink tag.

I also am disappointed with the lack of listening to the many posts left by loyal users of your software where they've left numerous improvement suggestions and there is little or no commentary from developers on whether the features are feasible, or even being listened to. Many users have done so. The only one that comes immediately to mind is dlf, and cgriego (if i spelled that right), but I've seen half a dozen others who genuinly care for the software and want to see it improved.

And these aren't just combinations of hundreds of posts, these people have taken the time to compile 5 or even 6 page unified suggestions that are coherently presented. I've done it myself, as many others have done. Look at this as a good example. Now, granted that topic was made by myself and there is absolutely bias as a result--I won't deny this fact. But it was not so much a laundry list of new features as it was a laundry list of inconsistent areas of the IPB software that I took the time to list out and ask for constructive changes to be made. My largest problem, was, and still is the error handling system. The login page inconsistencies, etc are just things that must be changed.

I realize there is always that fine line between the absolute bloat of throwing in a dozen kitchen sinks into the software like vBulletin does. IPB has always had a spartan feel to it and that is a good thing. I've often referred to it as being PhpBB idiot simple while maintaining a vBulletin feature set. You have the superior ACP, without any doubt in the imagination, and it doesn't lack many things, but the few that it does lack are huge. Will it make me move away from IPB? Absolutely not. I would really like to see this software remain competitive. Keep it's soul.

Though, improvement is always a good thing.

[Novawave]

I agree, it seems to have taken quite a while to get 2.2 out, with not too many new features. But I'm happy with all the new features it contains, it's quite a nice release. Security was also upgraded quite a bit.

One thing to keep in mind though, is 2.2 is just a 0.1 point increase over 2.1. It has quite a few new features to merit the 0.1, but I think we'll be seeing all the major upgrades to IPB come 3.0.

[Sinistra]

I have said it before and I will say it again if you want stuff like that in IPB ether code it yourself or wait for a mod developer to do it. alot of my suggestins didn't get put in eather you don't hear me getting all fussy about it. So your disapointed in some of the IPB 2.2 beta 1 features big deal. I agree some of the stuff you did suggest should of went into this release. but it didn't so chill and enjoy 2.2 till 2.0 is released sometime in the future.

[OverDriveAdamJ]

I have said it before and I will say it again if you want stuff like that in IPB ether code it yourself or wait for a mod developer to do it. alot of my suggestins didn't get put in eather you don't hear me getting all fussy about it. So your disapointed in some of the IPB 2.2 beta 1 features big deal. I agree some of the stuff you did suggest should of went into this release. but it didn't so chill and enjoy 2.2 till 2.0 is released sometime in the future.

That makes it no less valid. Though, I would argue it was not fussy...
It's absolutely constructive. Not at all whining.

[Sinistra]

3.0 is coming out whe? I donno but Im sure most of your suggestions will be put in that release of IPB

[truyentranh]

i do not agree with sinistra
we are customers
we pay IPB $$$
and we should have the right to speak up !

and about IPB 3.0, theres no point talkin about it as u dont even know when 2.2 is coming out ?

[Brandon C]

I have said it before and I will say it again if you want stuff like that in IPB ether code it yourself or wait for a mod developer to do it. alot of my suggestins didn't get put in eather you don't hear me getting all fussy about it. So your disapointed in some of the IPB 2.2 beta 1 features big deal. I agree some of the stuff you did suggest should of went into this release. but it didn't so chill and enjoy 2.2 till 2.0 is released sometime in the future.

Do you sit down to pee?

Seriously, we're customers and we most certainly have the right to express our opinions.

I think OverDriveAdamJ has some very valid points.

[Josh]

I also am disappointed with the lack of listening to the many posts left by loyal users of your software where they've left numerous improvement suggestions and there is little or no commentary from developers on whether the features are feasible, or even being listened to. Many users have done so. The only one that comes immediately to mind is dlf, and cgriego (if i spelled that right), but I've seen half a dozen others who genuinly care for the software and want to see it improved.

And these aren't just combinations of hundreds of posts, these people have taken the time to compile 5 or even 6 page unified suggestions that are coherently presented. I've done it myself, as many others have done.

Look at this

as a good example. Now, granted that topic was made by myself and there is absolutely bias as a result--I won't deny this fact. But it was not so much a laundry list of new features as it was a laundry list of inconsistent areas of the IPB software that I took the time to list out and ask for constructive changes to be made. My largest problem, was, and still is the error handling system. The login page inconsistencies, etc are just things that must be changed.

I just want to say that we do absolutely listen to all the feedback from the features forum. When we mapped out the 2.2 release, we went through that forum and picked out lots of features that were popular and we thought would be good for point release. We also really appreciate posts like the ones you linked too, it's very convenient for us to have lists that like to look through when we map out a new release. So we may not reply to each topic in the feedback forum, but we read them all.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 2.2 is more of a polish release, as opposed to a big feature release. We wanted to take the existing features, improve them, make them easier to use and more refined. That being said, there are some significant new features, not the least of which is the profile and new RTE editor.

Thanks for your feedback and I hope you enjoy 2.2 :)

[Sinistra]

i do not agree with sinistra

we are customers

we pay IPB $$$

and we should have the right to speak up !

and about IPB 3.0, theres no point talkin about it as u dont even know when 2.2 is coming out ?

you have the right to speak up dosen't mean all suggestins are good ideas.

Do you sit down to pee?

Seriously, we're customers and we most certainly have the right to express our opinions.

I think OverDriveAdamJ has some very valid points.

again you are right but thats no reason to be all disappointed in IPB because you didn't get what you wanted

[OverDriveAdamJ]

I just want to say that we do absolutely listen to all the feedback from the features forum. When we mapped out the 2.2 release, we went through that forum and picked out lots of features that were popular and we thought would be good for point release. We also really appreciate posts like the ones you linked too, it's very convenient for us to have lists that like to look through when we map out a new release. So we may not reply to each topic in the feedback forum, but we read them all.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 2.2 is more of a polish release, as opposed to a big feature release. We wanted to take the existing features, improve them, make them easier to use and more refined. That being said, there are some significant new features, not the least of which is the profile and new RTE editor.

Thanks for your feedback and I hope you enjoy 2.2 :)

That fact it is a "polish" release is why I'm so disappointed. All of the things I posted there were polish. Refinements. More consistent language. More consistent logins. More consistent, refined error pages. More consistent administration. More consistent help system for user side and admin side. Things that haven't changed at all since 1.x of IPB. Heck, before you even added "power" to the name.

I have a colleague on my site that's been a member here for ages. One of the oldest members. Somewhere in the early 3000's of registered users. She even teases me that she used IkonBoard *BEFORE* Matt left, and has a copy of BoardMaster in her backups somewhere. Geek credit. She is the one who convinced me to even begin using the software. I care deeply for it. I want to see it improved.

[Sinistra]

a point release is to fix security holes. and some updates to the admin CP and or some miner board features. not a full blown overhaul. I mean I understand I was hopeing for alot more like you are.

I agree with the mod CP. as long as its like the admin CP with limited features.

[Josh]

That fact it is a \"polish\" release is why I'm so disappointed. All of the things I posted there were polish. Refinements. More consistent language. More consistent logins. More consistent, refined error pages. More consistent administration. More consistent help system for user side and admin side. Things that haven't changed at all since 1.x of IPB. Heck, before you even added \"power\" to the name.

I have a colleague on my site that's been a member here for ages. One of the oldest members. Somewhere in the early 3000's of registered users. She even teases me that she used IkonBoard *BEFORE* Matt left, and has a copy of BoardMaster in her backups somewhere. Geek credit. She is the one who convinced me to even begin using the software. I care deeply for it. I want to see it improved.

Well I agree with you that all of those things could use improvement and they will be addressed, probably in 3.0. Unfortunately there was only time to get so much into this release. Take for example the error pages. We debated on changing the error system in 2.2 for quite awhile, but in the end decided to push that off for 3.0 and focus that time in other areas of 2.2. It's not that we don't read your feedback or disagree that certain areas need improvement, but each release is a "give and take" process and theres only so much time to get everything done.

[Microo]

I personally like the 2.2.0, yes there still some stuff that could be added

[OverDriveAdamJ]

Well I agree with you that all of those things could use improvement and they will be addressed, probably in 3.0. Unfortunately there was only time to get so much into this release. Take for example the error pages. We debated on changing the error system in 2.2 for quite awhile, but in the end decided to push that off for 3.0 and focus that time in other areas of 2.2. It's not that we don't read your feedback or disagree that certain areas need improvement, but each release is a "give and take" process and theres only so much time to get everything done.

That's true. Time is finite, and I know what time tables and deadlines are like, sir. But, I personally would be willing to wait extra time to see these refinements added. IPB is losing its simplicity because none of the documentation has kept up with the new features and the error pages are confusing and basically reduced to mere afterthought. The admin help section is absolutely a must have. I see you added something like that, but there is no question mark or option-by-option link to the IPB manual pages for that feature. It's become a confusing mess in a lot of ways.

On top of that, you are releasing IP Dynamic, Nexus, etc... and your flagship product is slowly slipping down a slope of lack of documentation and once you have more projects as complex, and large as IPB you will have even less time to dedicate to documentation. You need to draw the line in the sand and document what you have first so that it does not sink you in projects later on. A large PDF document is a great start, but it's decentralized. It must become inline help, with the options right there for the user to empower themselves with the knowledge. It will cut down on your support representatives tedious jobs, and improve the system at the same time.

Oh, and just so it is not interpreted wrong. I am not telling you how to run your pirate ship. I am merely placing my opinion in the public courts provided to state my opinions and feelings.

Argh, shiver me timbers.

[Guest]

That's true. Time is finite, and I know what time tables and deadlines are like, sir. But, I personally would be willing to wait extra time to see these refinements added.

You may be willing to wait extra time, but many, many customers are not. A lot of people are eager to get hold of the changes already added to 2.2.

On top of that, you are releasing IP Dynamic, Nexus, etc... and your flagship product is slowly slipping down a slope of lack of documentation and once you have more projects as complex, and large as IPB you will have even less time to dedicate to documentation. You need to draw the line in the sand and document what you have first so that it does not sink you in projects later on.

There is a full, detailed set of documentation for IPB 2.2. It is in the beta release announcement. :)

[OverDriveAdamJ]

There is a full, detailed set of documentation for IPB 2.2. It is in the beta release announcement. :)

A large PDF document is a great start, but it's decentralized. It must become inline help, with the options right there for the user to empower themselves with the knowledge. It will cut down on your support representatives tedious jobs, and improve the system at the same time.

[Brandon C]

Edit: I agree, inline help would be awesome!

[Josh]

That's true. Time is finite, and I know what time tables and deadlines are like, sir. But, I personally would be willing to wait extra time to see these refinements added. IPB is losing its simplicity because none of the documentation has kept up with the new features and the error pages are confusing and basically reduced to mere afterthought. The admin help section is absolutely a must have. I see you added something like that, but there is no question mark or option-by-option link to the IPB manual pages for that feature. It's become a confusing mess in a lot of ways.

On top of that, you are releasing IP Dynamic, Nexus, etc... and your flagship product is slowly slipping down a slope of lack of documentation and once you have more projects as complex, and large as IPB you will have even less time to dedicate to documentation. You need to draw the line in the sand and document what you have first so that it does not sink you in projects later on. A large PDF document is a great start, but it's decentralized. It must become inline help, with the options right there for the user to empower themselves with the knowledge. It will cut down on your support representatives tedious jobs, and improve the system at the same time.

Oh, and just so it is not interpreted wrong. I am not telling you how to run your pirate ship. I am merely placing my opinion in the public courts provided to state my opinions and feelings.

Argh, shiver me timbers.

We'll likely turn the PDF into an html document that can be linked to throughout the admin cp. I'm not sure when that will happen though.

As far as falling behind, we're documenting our new products as they are developed, so it won't be an issue with them. Nexus for example already has a 200+ page PDF manual, much like the IPB one we've put together for 2.2.

[OverDriveAdamJ]

We'll likely turn the PDF into an html document that can be linked to throughout the admin cp. I'm not sure when that will happen though.

As far as falling behind, we're documenting our new products as they are developed, so it won't be an issue with them. Nexus for example already has a 200+ page PDF manual, much like the IPB one we've put together for 2.2.

I'm happy to hear that. Now for the IPB refinements. :P

[whitetigergrowl]

Ya know...every time I look in the mirror and see another grey hair pop up I realize a new release of IPB must be imminent. lol

And I'm only 31. *sigh*

Luckily I had fewer than normal this time and 2.2 so far has been a great release.

[Keith J. Kacin]

A large PDF document is a great start, but it's decentralized. It must become inline help, with the options right there for the user to empower themselves with the knowledge. It will cut down on your support representatives tedious jobs, and improve the system at the same time.

We are not only working on creating the documentation you saw, but also filling the Knowledge Base with common issues/fixes.
Developer documentation is already being written, and advanced tutorials for certain features will also be written.

We do realize this is a trouble area, which is why we are working on improving the documention/KB. As Josh said, we are ensuring products get proper documentation along, and we are working together to try to get things to run as smoothly as possible in the support side of things.

[ScottyToledo]

Well, I'm pretty happy with the new version. I dont think I would want to be bombarded with a million new features at the same time anyway. I think you guys did a fantastic job. And I'm not being a fanboi when I say that either. lol. I am looking foward to installing this on my main board, and so are my Moderators who I roped into testing this with me. I've had a few issues that I've been able to work out myself. You did a great job. :)

[Will L.]

That fact it is a "polish" release is why I'm so disappointed. All of the things I posted there were polish. Refinements. More consistent language. More consistent logins. More consistent,

refined error pages

. More consistent administration. More consistent help system for user side and admin side. Things that haven't changed at all since 1.x of IPB. Heck, before you even added "power" to the name.

I have a colleague on my site that's been a member here for ages. One of the oldest members. Somewhere in the early 3000's of registered users. She even teases me that she used IkonBoard *BEFORE* Matt left, and has a copy of BoardMaster in her backups somewhere. Geek credit. She is the one who convinced me to even begin using the software. I care deeply for it. I want to see it improved.

not to be against what you posted but the one thing in BOLD red is added

3. Most of the E_NOTICE errors have been eliminated, causing many less (hidden) calls to the IPB error handler function

[Quillz]

I agree, it seems to have taken quite a while to get 2.2 out, with not too many new features. But I'm happy with all the new features it contains, it's quite a nice release. Security was also upgraded quite a bit.

One thing to keep in mind though, is 2.2 is just a 0.1 point increase over 2.1. It has quite a few new features to merit the 0.1, but I think we'll be seeing all the major upgrades to IPB come 3.0.

I think this is correct for the most part. :thumbsup:

[pankhurst]

Ya know...every time I look in the mirror and see another grey hair pop up I realize a new release of IPB must be imminent. lol

And I'm only 31. *sigh*

Luckily I had fewer than normal this time and 2.2 so far has been a great release.

:lol: me too ..me too :wacko: