Hiding a product in store

[NSPN]

We have a membership product.  The registration process includes optional purchase of a membership.  It's also possible to go to the store and purchase a membership without registering, which causes problems.

I'd like to hide the product in the store so customers would have to go through registration (or already be registered) to purchase membership.  On Store Settings, option to Show in store?, notes are
Even if hidden from the store, it will still show on the registration form if that setting is enabled, users who have previously purchased will still be able to renew, and users who have purchased other products in the same group may still be able to upgrade/downgrade to this product.

That would be perfect.  However, if I set "show in store" to no and save, I get this warning on the Product Settings tab:
Show on registration form?

  
You can force users to purchase a product when registering in the Store Settings. In order for a package to show on the registration form it must be set to show in the store and be available to the Guests group. You can control these settings under the 'Store & Purchase Settings' tab.

These are inconsistent.  What's up?

[opentype]

1 hour ago, NSPN said:

purchase a membership without registering, which causes problems.

Which problems exactly? This should work as you need it. Either a member purchases the product with an active account or a guests purchases it, which will necessarily create an account for them. 

I don’t think hiding it from the store is what you need, as you say specifically that existing members should also be able to buy the product. 

[NSPN]

A guest can purchase without creating an account.  This happens repeatedly.

[NSPN]

It is possible to force someone registering to purchase a product.  What we need is the converse, for only those who have already registered to be able to purchase.  If this were the case we wouldn't need to hide the product.

Edited May 7, 2022 by NSPN

[Jim M]

23 hours ago, NSPN said:

A guest can purchase without creating an account.  This happens repeatedly.

A guest cannot purchase without creating an account during checkout. If you do not want guests to go through that process, you would simply remove guest access to the product or store overall. 

To remove access to the product, you would edit the product -> Store Settings tab -> Show to member groups.

To remove access to guests from the store entirely, you would go to ACP -> System -> Applications -> expand Commerce -> Remove permissions for Guests on the "Store" module.

21 hours ago, NSPN said:

It is possible to force someone registering to purchase a product.  What we need is the converse, for only those who have already registered to be able to purchase.  If this were the case we wouldn't need to hide the product.

This also is possible by going to ACP -> Commerce -> Store -> Settings -> Purchase Settings -> Force users to make a purchase when registering?

[NSPN]

7 minutes ago, Jim M said:

A guest cannot purchase without creating an account during checkout.

But they are...we get invoices to be paid by check to people who haven't registered on the forum.  I'm not aware that we have anyone who has completed payment by PayPal through Braintree who hasn't registered.

 

8 minutes ago, Jim M said:

This also is possible by going to ACP -> Commerce -> Store -> Settings -> Purchase Settings -> Force users to make a purchase when registering?

I just agreed that this is possible, but said that what I need is the converse.

We want people to be able to register as guests on the forum if they like.  We also want them to be able to join as paid members.  The problem is that we're having people purchasing membership by check without registering.

Nothing said yet addresses the inconsistent messages.  If a product is hidden in the store will it or will it not show on the registration form?

[opentype]

10 minutes ago, NSPN said:

But they are...we get invoices to be paid by check to people who haven't registered on the forum.  I'm not aware that we have anyone who has completed payment by PayPal through Braintree who hasn't registered.

That’s intentional. The account is only created when you set the manual payment to “approved”. 

Also: Invoices are already created during checkout, so it’s normal to have incomplete orders because users never finish the checkout. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by opentype

[Jim M]

5 hours ago, NSPN said:

But they are...we get invoices to be paid by check to people who haven't registered on the forum.  I'm not aware that we have anyone who has completed payment by PayPal through Braintree who hasn't registered.

They can create an invoice but to complete checkout, an account is required. 

[NSPN]

6 hours ago, NSPN said:

Nothing said yet addresses the inconsistent messages.  If a product is hidden in the store will it or will it not show on the registration form?

 

[Jim M]

Believe there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the software is doing. No one can complete checkout and not register.

With that said, if someone purchases a product on the registration form and you’re using a manual payment method, you will need to approve the payment prior to the account is created fully. This is so on communities that require a product purchase don’t have an account if a payment failed or undergo fraud rules, etc… Once the payment is approved, the account is created.

If a guest is purchasing outside of the registration form and they go through the process, they will register and the account will be created according with your verification settings.

56 minutes ago, NSPN said:

If a product is hidden in the store will it or will it not show on the registration form?

If it’s hidden from guests, it cannot be on the registration form. 

[Sonya*]

This is how the software describes what it is doing 🤨

Quote

Even if hidden from the store, it will still show on the registration form if that setting is enabled, users who have previously purchased will still be able to renew, and users who have purchased other products in the same group may still be able to upgrade/downgrade to this product.

And at the same time:

Quote

You can force users to purchase a product when registering in the Store Settings. In order for a package to show on the registration form it must be set to show in the store and be available to the Guests group. 

This is from the first post of the thread. One of the descriptions should be false.

[NSPN]

Sonya, you win the reading comprehension prize.

[NSPN]

1 hour ago, Jim M said:

Believe there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the software is doing. No one can complete checkout and not register.

With that said, if someone purchases a product on the registration form and you’re using a manual payment method, you will need to approve the payment prior to the account is created fully. This is so on communities that require a product purchase don’t have an account if a payment failed or undergo fraud rules, etc… Once the payment is approved, the account is created.

If a guest is purchasing outside of the registration form and they go through the process, they will register and the account will be created according with your verification settings.

This does help explain what I see, although it doesn't answer the original question.  Some new people register on the message board, then purchase a membership by check, and their invoice shows their user name.  Others purchase a membership by check, and their invoice shows them as a guest and they don't appear as a member...until they pay their invoice.  Since I didn't understand this last bit, it's been confusing.  If I could hide the product from those who haven't registered yet, but could still offer it during the registration process, that would be great.

[Marc]

7 hours ago, NSPN said:

Since I didn't understand this last bit, it's been confusing.  If I could hide the product from those who haven't registered yet, but could still offer it during the registration process, that would be great.

You cant do that as those 2 things are the direct opposite of one another. 

I would need an example of these in order to take a closer look.

[NSPN]

After more experimentation and with everyone's guidance, I now understand the registration process better.  Thanks.

The original inconsistency between the system messages remains and should be fixed.

[Marc]

Thank you for your feedback, and glad you have what you need there