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SEO Rankings flying all over the place, and why is this..


Steven UK

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Alright so I just checked, and if you're viewing the tags page then in the online users list you'll show up as "Searching...". Google bot, whenever I look at the online users list, is always "Searching..." and now Bing is doing it too. So I have to ask, is there only benefits to be gained from putting noindex on the tags page and adding nofollow to tag links or can it be harmful too? I'm kind of siding with marcher in that there is no need for search engines to crawl search pages and tags are a search page..but then again so is VNC. Should search engines be blocked from that too?

Thanks.

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Alright so I just checked, and if you're viewing the tags page then in the online users list you'll show up as "Searching...". Google bot, whenever I look at the online users list, is always "Searching..." and now Bing is doing it too. So I have to ask, is there only benefits to be gained from putting noindex on the tags page and adding nofollow to tag links or can it be harmful too? I'm kind of siding with marcher in that there is no need for search engines to crawl search pages and tags are a search page..but then again so is VNC. Should search engines be blocked from that too?



Thanks.




URL sculpture is soo old that it is not recommended anymore because it blocks the natural flow of page ranking :smile:

more here (about nofollow)

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http://localhost/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=viewNewContent&search_app=ccs&sid=9d65a1f31f84d39576ac14b4d40fbccb&search_app_filters[ccs][searchInKey]=database_1&change=1&period=months&userMode=&followedItemsOnly=0


/Sarcasm Yeah, crawling through endless pages of that has gotta be real healthy for a site.
Also, tip of iceberg... why, do we show crawlers multiple pages of sorting in applications that simply show the same data in a different order?
AlexJ hits a nail on the head there.... the ability to search is not considered everywhere... these sorts are IMHO just as bad as that mess, if not worse by nature of furls and lack of checks for showing.

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Here is my take on this whole thread and topic for what it's worth, people that try too hard on SEO are penalized for it... there is a difference between having good content and trying to fake good content with SEO myths and strategies.

My advice has always been to use good content and structure and let the site's content do the rest, if you try and trick google, the laugh will be on you!

In short, spend more time creating uniuqe content on your site and less time worrying about how to trick search engines to think your copy and past is better then the guy above you! :)

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I think that is the world upside down. The issue is that search engines are not correctly fed, but instead given confusing urls, structure and functions. Its rather a matter of getting rid of the tricks. Not a matter of using tricks to fool google.

For example the hiding of thread preview, the use of illogical directories, using long sequences of variables, using multiple underscores in an url, or the wrong propitem, are confusing issues that are good to resolve.

I dont want to be penalized by google for moving to IPB. I think thats a valid concern, as my traffic (millions of users per month) depends on it. And I really like IPB functionality, so there is good reason to move.

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Here is my take on this whole thread and topic for what it's worth, people that try too hard on SEO are penalized for it... there is a difference between having good content and trying to fake good content with SEO myths and strategies.



My advice has always been to use good content and structure and let the site's content do the rest, if you try and trick google, the laugh will be on you!



In short, spend more time creating uniuqe content on your site and less time worrying about how to trick search engines to think your copy and past is better then the guy above you! :smile:




That is all well and Good, but the vehicle you are using also has to be up to the job, which then enhances unique content. Those using unique content alone, and those who just listen to Matt Cutts and his patronising videos, will up end in 10 years from now, poor, scratching their heads wondering why they got left behind.

Sure, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, but be very careful who you listen to where your success is concerned.

A few years ago, a webmaster who claimed he was an SEO expert claimed he was the best in his field, knew all the angles just the way Google wanted them, and that in HIS niche it was impossible to claim a first page ranking amongst all the large competition. I told him I could do it inside a day. "Impossible" he said, because of course he knew all there was to know, everything by the book, and was an "SEO professional".

So, live on a large forum, he set me the challenge to back up my claims. Everyone was watching, and waiting.

13 hours later, a brand new registered domain name was bang on position 4 of Google, and stayed there for 2 years (.co.uk) until it expired...

As with anything business-wise, real success is not taught from a book, and mass generalisations lead to the situation as mentioned in the first paragraph. Real advantages, in any area of life, are rarely; very rarely, open to mass consumption, and availability.
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That is all well and Good, but the vehicle you are using also has to be up to the job, which then enhances unique content. Those using unique content alone, and those who just listen to Matt Cutts and his patronising videos, will up end in 10 years from now, poor, scratching their heads wondering why they got left behind.



Sure, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, but be very careful who you listen to where [u]your[/u] success is concerned.



A few years ago, a webmaster who claimed he was an SEO expert claimed he was the best in his field, knew all the angles just the way Google wanted them, and that in HIS niche it was impossible to claim a first page ranking amongst all the large competition. I told him I could do it inside a day. "Impossible" he said, because of course he knew all there was to know, everything by the book, and was an "SEO professional".



So, live on a large forum, he set me the challenge to back up my claims. Everyone was watching, and waiting.



13 hours later, a brand new registered domain name was bang on position 4 of Google, and stayed there for 2 years (.co.uk) until it expired...



As with anything business-wise, real success is not taught from a book, and mass generalisations, leads to the situation as mentioned in the first paragraph.




I just posted my personal opinion based on my results and success in the real world, nothing more, in fact some of the best success has been with a straight out of the box setup, no ipseo, no nothing... just pure original content.
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I just posted my personal opinion based on my results and success in the real world, nothing more, in fact some of the best success has been with a straight out of the box setup, no ipseo, no nothing... just pure original content.




Yes, wasn't actually pointed at your post, I was just having a 'thinking out loud moment'. :smile:
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Talking of Matt Cutts though, I don't think any of the hundreds of videos on youtube he has posted, and that endless people quote to, when referencing SEO, can believed anymore; not when the latest algorithm update has totally contradicted many of Google's stances on SEO.

I'll give you an example. Google once stated that backlinking to bad neighbourhoods would never be counted against you (your site), and that they would just be ignored. This was paramount due to the fact, that if backlinking to such linkfarms, etc. were counted against the recipient, then this would open the door exclusively to competitors damaging reputations.

Their latest algorithm has backtracked on that rule, hence negative SEO companies are sprouted up all over the globe to take advantage, and are readily accepting orders to damage competitors worldwide.

There was a public test done on this very subject against one of the high profile faces on the Google webmaster forums, somebody who has a rather smart mouth on there (there are many of them, incidentally). A blackhat SEO group targeted this guy's high profile blog, using negative SEO, after the algorithm update changes, and visibly demoted his site, just to prove the point, and to annoy him (for having a smart mouth, and thinking he was untouchable, and that his 'quality content' could never be demoted, and actually for his connections with Matt Cutts - apparently they tweeted each other). It was very interesting.

Also, the latest algorithm change (Penguin) was supposed to remove the spam websites, etc. etc. When on thousands of forums all over the world, you will read on a daily basis how many website owners, who have never backlinked or linked to bad neighbourhoods, and only created purely unique, researched and detailed content have been deindexed, and penalised like it is going out of fashion, closing them down, incomes lost, jobs lost, homes repossessed, etc. etc.

So those videos, at least the ones before the algorithm updates are way out of touch.

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  • Management

Honestly, I am no SEO expert. I'd considering hiring one, but I'm not sure what constitutes an expert. There are several strong voices in this topic who all seem very knowledgeable and can back up their opinion with empirical evidence. The issue is that very few of you have managed to agree on anything in 17 pages. If we did hire an expert, I'm sure that most of you would disagree with his (or her) changes and claim it'd be doing more harm than good!

What I am interested in is feeding Google clean data and ensuring we're making use of micro data, schema data and general good practises such as ensuring crawl errors are reduces, correct headers are returned, etc.

I'm sure we could spend months tweaking things like the URL structure but we don't have that luxury. We tend to try and make the least invasive changes we can and I still maintain that starting over with our link structure would probably do more harm to most than good for at least 12 months.

What this topic does give is a lot of insight and we've had some good discussions but let's keep it civil or we'll have to close it.

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Here is my take on this whole thread and topic for what it's worth, people that try too hard on SEO are penalized for it... there is a difference between having good content and trying to fake good content with SEO myths and strategies.



My advice has always been to use good content and structure and let the site's content do the rest, if you try and trick google, the laugh will be on you!



In short, spend more time creating uniuqe content on your site and less time worrying about how to trick search engines to think your copy and past is better then the guy above you! :smile:




Yes, content is very important Rhett, but here is the problem. I converted my site from a basic forum product to IPB about 18 months ago and after the conversion my rankings collapsed and, this is important, they have never recovered. Same content, far worse SEO. Many others have experienced the same issue. I'm not looking to 'fool' Google, I simply want IPB not to confuse Google so that Google can get to the content and index it properly.

IMHO this is the most important issue remaining with IPB and should be prioritised over other developments.

Also, unless you use a very extensive robots.txt, a standard IPB installation will give thousands of errors (including server errors) on Google Webmaster. I don't get any server errors with my XF software and I don't use robots.txt. Simply put, there is something wrong with IPB from an SEO perspective. I don't know what it is, but in all honesty, I don't think IPS know what the cause is either because these debates have been going on for a long time.

However, I'm very pleased that IPS are taking this issue seriously - thanks.
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What I am interested in is feeding Google clean data



Generally I think would be good to use FURLs on whole board and get rid of classic URLs as much as possible.

For example we have still some classic URLs on board:

Board Rules

http://community.invisionpower.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules[/CODE]

... could be

[CODE]http://community.invisionpower.com/boardrules/

Help

http://community.invisionpower.com/index.php?app=core&module=help

... could be

http://community.invisionpower.com/help/[/code]

Important is get rid of parameters in URLs, in this way can help Google Webmaster Tools In theory, since we use FURLs, I could deny all parameters and exclude from Google index LOT OF unnecessary links which make duplicate content in lot of cases. One thing with which I'm not sure is that I don't know when I disable the parameter "app" if it will have a bad effect on the indexing of all applications on the board. It shouldn't, but I'm not sure. Some time ago I denied parameters "showforum" and "showtopic" and then it seemed to me that from google index my themes began to disappear. I don't know if it was just a coincidence or what.





post-54811-0-69666200-1338362341_thumb.p





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Honestly, I am no SEO expert. I'd considering hiring one, but I'm not sure what constitutes an expert.



No comment on this, you can read your PMs too :smile:

My suggestion to all these SEO issues is simple : simply edit the current code (at the places I suggested in PM aot) so that the FURL system can be easily modded, and "hire" someone to put magic in IP.SEO, even turning it in a paying module in the future if needed.
Also, other soee xperts can also produce their own (competing) SEO mod for IPB. You take your share in the marketplace anyway.

Proceding this way solves two problem
- people can choose what SEO they want, yours or anyone else's.
- you can pay your expert, and sell a new product.

You can even focus, as a main dev, on your product and not care about these issues anymore.
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Honestly, I am no SEO expert. I'd considering hiring one, but I'm not sure what constitutes an expert. There are several strong voices in this topic who all seem very knowledgeable and can back up their opinion with empirical evidence. The issue is that very few of you have managed to agree on anything in 17 pages. If we did hire an expert, I'm sure that most of you would disagree with his (or her) changes and claim it'd be doing more harm than good!



What I am interested in is feeding Google clean data and ensuring we're making use of micro data, schema data and general good practises such as ensuring crawl errors are reduces, correct headers are returned, etc.



I'm sure we could spend months tweaking things like the URL structure but we don't have that luxury. We tend to try and make the least invasive changes we can and I still maintain that starting over with our link structure would probably do more harm to most than good for at least 12 months.



What this topic does give is a lot of insight and we've had some good discussions but let's keep it civil or we'll have to close it.




for me, my seo expert is the official google webmaster blog. I don't necessarily believe anyone else :)
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I agree with hiring an SEO expert and, just like the mobile app, IP.SEO has not worked free so charge for it. I think SEO will become even more prominent when you move into the 3.4 community suite. If people shift business to nexus they want good ranking not a lot of duplicate rubbish.

Get an expert. Improve IP.SEO or let that expert make fixes to the core and everyone will be happy.

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for me, my seo expert is the official google webmaster blog. I don't necessarily believe anyone else :smile:




<<< is smiling - Because I am the complete opposite. I believe what is NOT on the Google Webmaster Forums, because they have no reality behind their pure theory :smile:

As for hiring an 'expert', tricky one, because unless this expert is a Google employee, a system engineer who build the algorithms, then who would you hire? You can type "SEO EXPERT" into Google and come back with a bunch of numpties who have never run a rankings-based business in their miserable lives, but of course they 'know what works', usually from 'how to do SEO' videos they watched 10 years ago.

So yes, tricky one, but some input is needed, from somewhere, and sometimes you have to take a calculated punt.
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More issue:

http://fearless-assassins.com/files/file/482-supplydepot/

https://www.google.co.in/#hl=en&safe=off&qscrl=1&sclient=psy-ab&q=http:%2F%2Ffearless-assassins.com%2Ffiles%2Ffile%2F482-supplydepot%2F&oq=http:%2F%2Ffearless-assassins.com%2Ffiles%2Ffile%2F482-supplydepot%2F&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...5298.5298.1.5662.1.1.0.0.0.0.212.212.2-1.1.0...0.0.F0UBKIWYwx8&pbx=1&qscrl=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=fae6a023b37a6159&biw=1680&bih=937

Now Google puts description as:


10 Aug 2011 – Google Sign in options. Remember me. This is not recommended for shared computers. Sign in anonymously. Don't add me to the active users ...

Is it good? Description is key to attract users from search engine. It in fact should have this description:


Fixes spawn bug, gold bug, grenade/mortar over roof into stairwell exploit, disables troublesome music speakers and offers new satchel/crane control exploit fix. Fixes wm_endround waitstate.



If anyone can show me right path on how to fix the issue it would be great.

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More issue:



http://fearless-assa...82-supplydepot/

https://www.google.c...iw=1680&bih=937

Now Google puts description as:




10 Aug 2011 – Google Sign in options. Remember me. This is not recommended for shared computers. Sign in anonymously. Don't add me to the active users ...

Is it good? Description is key to attract users from search engine. It in fact should have this description:


Fixes spawn bug, gold bug, grenade/mortar over roof into stairwell exploit, disables troublesome music speakers and offers new satchel/crane control exploit fix. Fixes wm_endround waitstate.



If anyone can show me right path on how to fix the issue it would be great.



that means nothing because the snippet depends on the search query. Google will try to display the relevant part of text in a page to your search query. If I change the query to:

https://www.google.co.in/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&pq=supplydepot%20http%3A%2F%2Ffearless-assassins.com%2Ffiles%2Ffile%2F482-supplydepot%2F&cp=15&gs_id=h&xhr=t&q=Fixes%20spawn%20bug%20http%3A%2F%2Ffearless-assassins.com%2Ffiles%2Ffile%2F482-supplydepot%2F&pf=p&safe=off&qscrl=1&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Fixes+spawn+bug+http://fearless-assassins.com/files/file/482-supplydepot/&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=b4a065d43a01dfd1&biw=1366&bih=667

that issue will disappear.
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Honestly, I am no SEO expert. I'd considering hiring one, but I'm not sure what constitutes an expert. There are several strong voices in this topic who all seem very knowledgeable and can back up their opinion with empirical evidence. The issue is that very few of you have managed to agree on anything in 17 pages. If we did hire an expert, I'm sure that most of you would disagree with his (or her) changes and claim it'd be doing more harm than good!



What I am interested in is feeding Google clean data and ensuring we're making use of micro data, schema data and general good practises such as ensuring crawl errors are reduces, correct headers are returned, etc.



I'm sure we could spend months tweaking things like the URL structure but we don't have that luxury. We tend to try and make the least invasive changes we can and I still maintain that starting over with our link structure would probably do more harm to most than good for at least 12 months.



What this topic does give is a lot of insight and we've had some good discussions but let's keep it civil or we'll have to close it.



With SEO the proof is in the pudding. In my experience its best to go to a company who can show you at the very least a decade of SEO successful optimization portfolio for major websites and that can show you a long row of prizes. I can give you some examples if you want. The examples I have are in my country (Netherlands). If you can find such companies in your proximity then that is optimal, as you will benefit from regular meetings.
With such companies its often possible to set clear targets on what the SEO changes need to accomplish, and make part of their pay dependent upon reaching these targets.

Don't go for the quick scan. Do the full audit.

With SEO everyone has an opinion. I know that over the decades I have picked up quite a few tidbits along the way. Enough to make my sites rank #1 for any search phrase I have interest in. But I am no SEO expert.
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With SEO the proof is in the pudding. In my experience its best to go to a company who can show you at the very least a decade of SEO successful optimization portfolio for major websites and that can show you a long row of prizes. I can give you some examples if you want. The examples I have are in my country (Netherlands). If you can find such companies in your proximity then that is optimal, as you will benefit from regular meetings.


With such companies its often possible to set clear targets on what the SEO changes need to accomplish, and make part of their pay dependent upon reaching these targets.




If you do this, then make sure that the companies can provide a portfolio of client's websites that are STILL ranking after the Panda and Penguin algorithm updates. An associate of mine runs an SEO company who is the UK, and ranked companies on the first page of Google for major keywords like "Kitchens", etc. As well as many others, for his clients. Always did everything by the 'Google Blog', Authority links, clean content, etc. etc. He was very successful, with more clients than he could shake a virtual stick at.

After the latest algorithm updates, the majority of his clients had been demoted. BUT, if you had asked him for his portfolio on the 23rd April this year, people would have been climbing over themselves to have him do their SEO. Not now, because like the majority of 'SEO companies' everything they thought they knew flew out of the window on the 24th April 2012 - The day Google decided to kill the small business in their searches, and instead decided to promote undeserving branded websites, instead.

If you want my view, then the SEO aspect is not something that can be taught from an SEO company who know how to rank highly. THIS issue is with the coding of the IPB forum software, and it is a 'design level' situation, that unless the SEO company has proven experience of development on other forum software, then it could become a nonstarter.
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