What needs to be done for 3.0.1

[Lewis P]

As I have said many times before (I was not one who submitted a ticket, btw), the way the view new content is now, is the way it should always have been. Why do I want to see a topic that I have just read in the NEW content page? I don't: Simple. Now, it only shows topics that I have not read, like the name suggests.

I will say though, that perhaps there should be a cut-off point/date/time for the number of results, as, it can get a bit full if you haven't visited for a long time. Maybe add some form of ACP setting to limit the number of days the results display to? Will also reduce server load. ;)

[AtariAge]

[quote name='Μark' date='05 July 2009 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1246825093' post='1820794']
Unfortunately, this thread is evidence we can't please everyone - people found the old way confusing, so it was changed - now other people don't like the new way.
Sorry, I have to call BS on this. I have nearly 20,000 members on my forum and nobody has EVER complained to me that "View New Posts" is confusing. Seriously, what the heck is confusing about it? It shows topics with new posts since your last visit! If someone finds that confusing, then it's amazing they were even able to create an account on your forum in the first place.


This is only one aspect of "View New Posts" that was changed, and I will certainly make the above change and test it to see how it compares to "View New Posts" in terms of the results being returned (topics with new posts since your last visit as opposed to "unread" topics). The display of the "View New Content" page (for the "Forums" tab) as well as the amount of information returned is still quite a bit different even with the above change.


Sure, things get changed over time and that's fine, when they are well thought out. Please, "not everyone is going to love these changes", talk about sugar coating it. Again, I can't believe that a majority of your customers requested this change. At the very least, the method by which results are returned should have been made an ACP (or perhaps user CP) option, and the display of the results shouldn't have been so drastically changed with less information.

..Al

Again, if you don't like view new content, just change it back. I even offered to do it for you ;)

You do have to realise though, things do get changed over time - while we can appreciate that not everyone is going to love these changes, we have to go by what the majority of the feedback we get, which I'm sure you can understand :)

[rbiss]

[quote name='Μark' date='05 July 2009 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1246825093' post='1820794']
:(

Unfortunately, this thread is evidence we can't please everyone - people found the old way confusing, so it was changed - now other people don't like the new way.

Again, if you don't like view new content, just change it back. I even offered to do it for you ;)

You do have to realise though, things do get changed over time - while we can appreciate that not everyone is going to love these changes, we have to go by the majority of the feedback we get, which I'm sure you can understand :)

You, rbiss, might not "give a crap" - but that doesn't change the opinion of the many, many people who appreciate the change ;)

Oh come on, the majority. That's nonsense. This change is more about coder ego and has nothing to do with what a majority thinks.

I'm also looking for the return of the original poster. Is that part of the offer too?

[AtariAge]

[quote name='rbiss' date='05 July 2009 - 03:26 PM' timestamp='1246825615' post='1820797']
I'm also looking for the return of the original poster. Is that part of the offer too?

Here's a recent post of mine in yet-another-thread complaining about this feature, where I detail my issues with "View New Content":

http://forums.invisionpower.com/topic/285311-view-new-content/page__view__findpost__p__1808536

I've been beating this drum for a while, and on the old preview board there was a long running thread I started about "View New Content". My initial post in that thread was one of the highest voted posts I'd seen on the preview forum. Yet the "majority" of customers found the old "View New Content" confusing and wanted it changed? :rolleyes:

..Al

[Mark]

[quote name='AtariAge' date='05 July 2009 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1246825586' post='1820796']
Sorry, I have to call BS on this. I have nearly 20,000 members on my forum and nobody has EVER complained to me that "View New Posts" is confusing. Seriously, what the heck is confusing about it?

...


[quote name='rbiss' date='05 July 2009 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1246825615' post='1820797']
Oh come on, the majority. That's nonsense. This change is more about coder ego and has nothing to do with what a majority thinks.

...



We get regular tickets about it (I'd estimate about 3 per week). Feel free to "call BS" or say it's "nonsense", but we did ;)

We don't just change things for the fun of it, or to annoy you or due to "coder ego" (whatever the hell that means).

[rbiss]

[quote name='Μark' date='05 July 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1246826121' post='1820805']
We get regular tickets about it (I'd estimate about 3 per week). Feel free to "call BS" or say it's "nonsense", but we did ;)

We don't just change things for the fun of it, or to annoy you or due to "coder ego" (whatever the hell that means).

Getting a few ticket requests is hardly a majority. A majority is what's more like everyone on a forum who is not an admin hating this new format. Is this designed for forum users or admins?

This three man majority has unfortunately caused many (most) users on our forum to greet IP3 with a grunt. What a waste of an otherwise good version, to be overshadowed by this.

But I will submit my ticket asking for all of the features in View New Posts to be returned.

[Wolfie]

My prediction: This thread will close soon (if this keeps up). :whistle:


Aside from that... I think perhaps the word "majority" was misused. A majority of those submitting tickets about it may have been from confusion on the feature. Still though, if enough people assert a dislike for a feature or confusion or annoyance over how something is done, and it's something that can be changed, then change tends to happen. I think this demonstrates that change in action.

If you ever do any form of customer service, you'll notice how people complain more about the things they don't like, can't understand or have some other problem with, instead of complaining about what works, the fact that it makes them happy, etc. The squeak wheel syndrome is in effect. People complained and gave IPS cause to make a change, now that the change is made, others are complaining about that change.

However, let's keep in mind that the IPS people are... people. No need to get mean or rude. State your point of view and if you wish to debate it, do so in a respectful manner. Calling something BS or anything else doesn't help promote the change desired nor does it set a good tone for the rest of the thread to follow. Why not have it both ways, where a person clicks on which style they want to use? Perhaps that could be added in a near future release (or in 3.1.x)?

I personally pick and choose where I'm going to read. I don't use the "View New/Old/Midlife Posts/Content/etc" feature myself so it doesn't bother me really. It allows me to pick the 'mood' or 'subject' of what I'll be diving into more, instead of it being chosen for me.

To summarize, keep it nice. There are things that I thought might be in IPB3 and weren't, but I don't go fussing up a storm about it. As a customer, I pay the company money so its employees are my employees (figuratively speaking) and I dislike seeing my employees getting mistreated for trying to make changes they think will make things better. So how about showing some respect okay? Thank you.

[TrixieTang]

[quote name='rbiss' date='05 July 2009 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1246826965' post='1820811']
Getting a few ticket requests is hardly a majority. A majority is what's more like everyone on a forum who is not an admin hating this new format. Is this designed for forum users or admins?


Personally I think this new way is how it should have always worked, I don't think the old way was really confusing, but the new way is definitely more logical.

And I do think that 3 tickets a week complaining about something really does indicate that that's the majority's opinion.

[quote name='rbiss' date='05 July 2009 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1246826965' post='1820811']
This three man majority has unfortunately caused many (most) users on our forum to greet IP3 with a grunt. What a waste of an otherwise good version, to be overshadowed by this.


To say that because of one feature being changed is really overreacting if you ask me.

[quote name='rbiss' date='05 July 2009 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1246826965' post='1820811']
But I will submit my ticket asking for all of the features in View New Posts to be returned.


A ticket isn't going to nor is it meant to make them change it back, it will let them help you to change it back on your forum, but it's not going to make them change it back in a future version.

[AtariAge]

[quote name='Kotonoha' date='05 July 2009 - 04:17 PM' timestamp='1246828639' post='1820820']
And I do think that 3 tickets a week complaining about something really does indicate that that's the majority's opinion.
What? Seriously? How the heck can you come to such a conclusion? The people who liked the feature (as it was) never submitted tickets about it. I'd really love to see some of these tickets. Even with some people complaining about the way it works in 2.3.x, an option should have been provided to allow admins (or users) to decide how this should work. This is naivety on Invision's part if they didn't think such a change was going to net them some negative feedback. They were well within their power to make this change in such a fashion to keep everyone happy. And again, this is just one facet of the changes that were made.


I don't agree. If it's a feature many of your users use frequently, and is the primary means they use to hunt down new posts they may be interested in viewing, then it could easily sour your users to your forum with the switch to 3.0.0.

..Al

To say that because of one feature being changed is really overreacting if you ask me.

[kache]

I would say the buttons to hide all the modules in the homepage.
I never need to see the online list, so I would love to be able to hide it.
Also, the "latest images in the gallery" panel in the homepage. I would love to be able to disable it, because I hate having useless things occupying space.
Obviously I'm talking from the point of view of an user, non of an admin, otherwise I would do these edits by myself... :D

[kache]

Also, something which i suppose was asked lots of time: an vbulletin like egosearch.
It's the list of all the topic subscriptions.
It's extremely useful to see which threads need your attention.

[ECUBitzy]

I'd like to look at that fix as in my upgraded board the view new content link returns much too large of a search return and was causing serious server loads on my board so I had to disable it.

But reading at the article it says

take...

public function setUnreadConditions()
{
// All code in this function included
}

And change to

public function setUnreadConditions()
{
$this->setDateRange( intval( $this->memberData['last_visit'] ), time() );
}

In the searchPlugin.php file on my server this is what I see in the public function setUnreadConditions{} line. It's different than the one listed in the article. What exactly should we be replacing?

public function setUnreadConditions()
{
$forum_conditions = array();

foreach( ipsRegistry::getClass('class_forums')->forum_by_id as $forumId => $forumData )
{
$lastMarked = ipsRegistry::getClass('classItemMarking')->fetchTimeLastMarked( array( 'forumID' => $forumId ), 'forums' );

$readItems = ipsRegistry::getClass('classItemMarking')->fetchReadIds( array( 'forumID' => $forumId ), 'forums' );
$readItems = ( is_array( $readItems ) AND count( $readItems ) ) ? $readItems : array();

if( count($readItems) )
{
$this->whereConditions['OR'][] = "(t.forum_id={$forumId} AND t.tid NOT IN(" . implode( ",", $readItems ) . ") AND t.last_post > " . intval($lastMarked) . ")";
}
else
{
$this->whereConditions['OR'][] = "(t.forum_id={$forumId} AND t.last_post > " . intval($lastMarked) . ")";
}
}
}

/**
* Builds the where portion of a search string
*
* @access private
* @param string $search_term The string to use in the search
* @param bool $content_title_only Search only title records
* @return string
**/

[Brandon D]

Whatever the majority may have been, they certainly didn't complain about it on these forums near any level compared to what I've seen since IPB3 went final alone. I think taking the one minute to throw up a (yet another) new setting to handle this might be best, to at least quiet both sides =p

[sound]

[quote name='Μark' date='05 July 2009 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1246825093' post='1820794']
:(

Unfortunately, this thread is evidence we can't please everyone - people found the old way confusing, so it was changed - now other people don't like the new way.

Again, if you don't like view new content, just change it back. I even offered to do it for you ;)

You do have to realise though, things do get changed over time - while we can appreciate that not everyone is going to love these changes, we have to go by the majority of the feedback we get, which I'm sure you can understand :)

You, rbiss, might not "give a crap" - but that doesn't change the opinion of the many, many people who appreciate the change ;)


what about performance issues ?


the built in search kills my server so I use sphinx instead
however to offer the "new content" feature (which as been said is a very popular feature) have had to come up with a dodgy work around

far from ideal and was expecting 3.01 to at least try and address this issue

will it ?

[AtariAge]

[quote name='fanta' date='05 July 2009 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1246832020' post='1820845']
what about performance issues ?


the built in search kills my server so I use sphinx instead
however to offer the "new content" feature (which as been said is a very popular feature) have had to come up with a dodgy work around

far from ideal and was expecting 3.01 to at least try and address this issue

will it ?

On my test 3.0.0 forum, it sometimes takes 250+ seconds (over four minutes!) to get the results from "View New Content". I can't even imagine what would happen if I tried to convert my live forum to IP 3.0.0 right now, it would be disastrous. I'd like to use Sphinx (I use it on my 2.3.6 forum with great results), but it has some issues that need to be addressed (there's a thread somewhere else discussing this).

..Al

[AtariAge]

[quote name='Brandon D' date='05 July 2009 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1246831916' post='1820844']
Whatever the majority may have been, they certainly didn't complain about it on these forums near any level compared to what I've seen since IPB3 went final alone. I think taking the one minute to throw up a (yet another) new setting to handle this might be best, to at least quiet both sides =p

Working on that now, first an Admin CP setting and then a User setting:



..Al

[sound]

[quote name='AtariAge' date='05 July 2009 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1246832512' post='1820850']
On my test 3.0.0 forum, it sometimes takes 250+ seconds (over four minutes!) to get the results from "View New Content". I can't even imagine what would happen if I tried to convert my live forum to IP 3.0.0 right now, it would be disastrous. I'd like to use Sphinx (I use it on my 2.3.6 forum with great results), but it has some issues that need to be addressed (there's a thread somewhere else discussing this).

..Al

exactly
I upgraded and found out after a lot of frustration that due to performance the new content feature was imo flawed and was faced with a "switch it off" or "try and self-fix"

same with the members post listing, the active topics listing, and what ever else uses the inbuilt search

[Brett B]

I find the feature to be useless in its current state. An issue, considering in 2.3 I used it as the main way of browsing my forums.

[rbiss]

There's a poll on this issue at 'View New' poll

[Mark]

[quote name='Kotonoha' date='05 July 2009 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1246828639' post='1820820']
And I do think that 3 tickets a week complaining about something really does indicate that that's the majority's opinion.


Indeed, if someone contacts every other day saying they are confused by a feature - that feature needs to be changed.

We of course know that some people don't like change, and so gave those people instructions to change it back.

People will throw their rattles out of the pram, but I think (and thank you to Putzy, Wolfie and Kotonoha for agreeing) that the decision to change it was justified, and the options we have for you to change it back are reasonable.

[AtariAge]

[quote name='Μark' date='06 July 2009 - 02:55 AM' timestamp='1246866918' post='1821005']
We of course know that some people don't like change, and so gave those people instructions to change it back.

People will throw their rattles out of the pram...

Those are really nice things to to say about all your customers who are not happy with these changes. I and others have already explained it has nothing to do with not liking change. :rolleyes: And it's not just the issue regarding which posts are shown, but also the drastic changes in the output and information that has been removed.

These threads keep popping up--is Invision really going to bury their collective heads in the sand?

http://forums.invisionpower.com/topic/287231-do-not-like-view-new-content/

..Al

[Wolfie]

[quote name='AtariAge' date='06 July 2009 - 07:52 AM' timestamp='1246881124' post='1821054']
These threads keep popping up--is Invision really going to bury their collective heads in the sand?

I don't recall any IPS staff saying, "There's no problem." or "Get over it." or even "We won't try to work on it some more." or anything else to that affect.

We don't know what IPS is doing until they make it known to us. You've each said, multiple times, that your members are not happy with it. It's understandable saying it multiple times because you want to make sure that it's heard as being important and not just as an idle comment. But what are you going to accomplish by assuming that IPS is ignoring you? If they make additional changes to it in an effort to make everyone^* happy, it won't happen overnight and they can't majikally change all the existing copies. Relax some. I've got a hunch that IPS is now more than aware of the fact that many people are displeased with the new way it's being done.

^{* You can't make everyone happy.}

[AtariAge]

[quote name='.Wolfie' date='06 July 2009 - 07:19 AM' timestamp='1246882796' post='1821060']
I don't recall any IPS staff saying, "There's no problem." or "Get over it." or even "We won't try to work on it some more." or anything else to that affect.
That's pretty much what Mark has been saying above (especially with his last post), although not with those exact words.


There are other changes about 3.0 I may not like, but they are not nearly as important or central as the search system and "View New Content" in particular. The whole search system has many problems and in my opinion mars what is an otherwise excellent release. That is why I have been so vocal about it. And this isn't something that just popped up with the release of 3.0.0, it's been discussed repeatedly since last year. IPS has been very slow to move on the issues that have been brought up repeatedly, which says to me they don't find them very important.


I would hope so, but I'm not too encouraged by what I've seen thus far.

..Al

We don't know what IPS is doing until they make it known to us. You've each said, multiple times, that your members are not happy with it. It's understandable saying it multiple times because you want to make sure that it's heard as being important and not just as an idle comment. But what are you going to accomplish by assuming that IPS is ignoring you? If they make additional changes to it in an effort to make everyone^* happy, it won't happen overnight and they can't majikally change all the existing copies. Relax some.

I've got a hunch that IPS is now more than aware of the fact that many people are displeased with the new way it's being done.

[Rοb]

[quote name='AtariAge' date='06 July 2009 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1246883812' post='1821069']
That's pretty much what Mark has been saying above (especially with his last post), although not with those exact words.

No, what Mark has been saying is that IPS have/had many customers lodge support tickets regarding the feature and as a result of which it has been changed (for the better I might add).

He has also said that you can easily revert it back to the old functionality should you wish, and has even offered to do it for you.

What else would you like, your feet rubbed whilst he does it?

[AtariAge]

[quote name='Rοb' date='06 July 2009 - 08:18 AM' timestamp='1246886308' post='1821084']
What else would you like, your feet rubbed whilst he does it?

Nice. :rolleyes:

Here's a previous post on the subject where I explained in detail what I don't like about the results returned from "View New Content" (and other related searches):

http://forums.invisionpower.com/topic/285311-view-new-content/page__p__1808536&#entry1808536

..Al