Bugs and IPS In General

[Please Delete]

I know that IPB is a fantastic piece of software but I'm sure even you, can agree that bugs which have been left unfiled or simply confirmed for months is unacceptable.

I agree, there should be someone who fixes bugs on duty at all time. I also thing the main download should get another number whenever a bug is fixed. So basically someone fixes a bug and posts the results as well as quickly uploading the file to the main install. Now he can say IPB 2.3.3 Download #4 has the fix.

This way you also assure that new members do not download software where the bug is not fixed. It's an easy solution to have someone on duty and keep the main download file up to date.

Before someone responds... I am not talking about a new version release but simply an updated file release.

[Mark]

Yes, bugs need to be fixed - but if IPS were to release point fixes (let's say) on a weekly basis, can you imagine the tongue lashings they'd receive because of "oh great, now I need to redo my mods - or now my skin doesn't work... can't you guys get it right the first time?!".

I agree, there should be someone who fixes bugs on duty at all time. I also thing the main download should get another number whenever a bug is fixed. So basically someone fixes a bug and posts the results as well as quickly uploading the file to the main install. Now he can say IPB 2.3.3 Download #4 has the fix.

This way you also assure that new members do not download software where the bug is not fixed. It's an easy solution to have someone on duty and keep the main download file up to date.

Before someone responds... I am not talking about a new version release but simply an updated file release.

I don't think any more version releases is a good idea - what I am after is just more fixes in each maintenance release.

[Energizer]

If there were one developer for each product, though, can you imagine how much each license would cost to PAY each developer?

This is a big project in terms of my time right now - but also a relatively temporary one, as in it's not an ongoing project.

It, however, does not work either if the same number of developer shall work on more and more products. The quality is lost.
I think IPS is overtaxed. More and more products, the IPB suffers from it in the quality and further development. Customers who need or want only a licence for the IPB will understand little it. When I bought my licence I thought that so IPS would put all its strengths into the development of the IPB. This is quite different today.
Other developers which only develop alone forum software are better for me today.

@bfarber
I experience you friendly and helpfully. This is not your problem. You are not responsible for it.

[Please Delete]

I don't think any more version releases is a good idea - what I am after is just more fixes in each maintenance release.

I never said we should have more maintenance releases, read my post again please.

I simply stated that the main download file should be updated whenever a bug is fixed so that anyone new downloading the product does not get the same bug. This is completely independent of the standard version updates.

[lOgOl]

It, however, does not work either if the same number of developer shall work on more and more products. The quality is lost.
I think IPS is overtaxed. More and more products, the IPB suffers from it in the quality and further development. Customers who need or want only a licence for the IPB will understand little it. When I bought my licence I thought that so IPS would put all its strengths into the development of the IPB. This is quite different today.
Other developers which only develop alone forum software are better for me today.

@bfarber
I experience you friendly and helpfully. This is not your problem. You are not responsible for it.

^^ this is also my point of view.

[wickedfpoop]

I never said we should have more maintenance releases, read my post again please.

I simply stated that the main download file should be updated whenever a bug is fixed so that anyone new downloading the product does not get the same bug. This is completely independent of the standard version updates.

It does. For example, check the Orphaned Attachment Tools file edit. It exists in the version of 2.3.3 that's in your Your Downloads. :)

[Rikki]

I never said we should have more maintenance releases, read my post again please.

I simply stated that the main download file should be updated whenever a bug is fixed so that anyone new downloading the product does not get the same bug. This is completely independent of the standard version updates.

That is simply not the way software development works anywhere I'm afraid. Bugs are fixed en masse, then an update is released incorporating all of those fixes. It's be pure chaos if no-one was ever sure what bugs were present and which weren't, and it'd be a logistical nightmare on our part.

[Lindy]

Although Brandon is in fact working on another project for the month (and this project is related to IPB) I do understand your concerns, but assure you that IPB is receiving the same level of attention that it always has and resources are far from "spread thin." Like nearly any software development cycle, critical bugs are fixed and released as quickly as possible. General bugs and issues are fixed and compiled into a full release (the last release being Nov 5.) Releasing or even updating the main download each and every time a bug is fixed is not practical for a commercial product. As an example, a fixed bug will occasionally trigger another which we attempt to catch during the QA process; which takes place prior to each and every release.

It's also worth noting that bug fixes are not always as simple as a few line edits and with the size of an application such as IPB, it's often far more in depth than that. Some bugs need to be prioritized per release to keep from holding the entire show up over a relatively minor issue impacting a small number of people. Some bugs simply cannot be fixed without a significant overhaul to some underlying code. It's just not always as simple as it seems, sometimes, I'm afraid. IPB has evolved significantly in recent history and as with anything, the bigger it gets, the more bugs that are inevitable, even in spite of our best efforts in catching them prior to release. With that said, roles will be shifting with the new year and there will be even more dedication to the community platform. There's also an expected maintenance release of IPB before Christmas to address outstanding bugs.

It is quite true that IPB and IPS on the whole have changed and grown exponentially over the past few years. With thousands upon thousands of customers from hobby sites to enterprise, things just aren't as simple as they used to be. There's a multitude of factors at play when producing a release and just modifying the software itself. I do apologize, but things are bound to move a bit slower with the larger scale of of the software. As with anything though, there's always room for improvement and we will of course be better prioritizing the incorporation of bug fixes into maintenance releases.

[Louis M.]

It was mentioned earlier, and I shall restate it again. If you want people dedicated to fixing bugs then these people will need to be paid. To pay them you will pay more for software then complain at its cost. I KNOW when Nexus is priced people will complain about its price.

This is almost like the give us release dates, then when the dates comes WTF where is the program? then they release it and BAM, why are there bugs?

I understand your hobby site is a customer adn you are important to IPS, but so are the other 3 millions sites from other hobby sites to corporations.

No matter what IPS says there will ALWAYS be some people who will complain about anything they can. If you are one of these people, wake up, stop being self centered, and consider that there are other factors then just your bug, need for a price, need for a release date, or b*tching about a bug in beta that trashes your site.

[TestingSomething]

It was mentioned earlier, and I shall restate it again. If you want people dedicated to fixing bugs then these people will need to be paid.

But prices already increased within the last year anyway, as I said earlier. But there hasn't really been an extra service given in accordance with that. So rather than saying if more developers were working on things the price would have to increase, the reverse could be said... that since the price increased there should be more manpower working on things.

I don't really think anything is wrong with how things are being run other than bugs just seem to be fixed much more slowly. I like that the company is sometimes posting bug fixes in bug tracker for those who do not want to wait until next releases. And also they are put into the knowledge base. I just saw a couple bugs I think are "fairly" important which seem to get ignored for a long time though. In Gallery for example there is complete information missing if you use IE when submitting. That isn't a small bug really if information being entered isn't being inserted (or retrieved if it is inserted, not sure which is the issue).

[Mark]

It was mentioned earlier, and I shall restate it again. If you want people dedicated to fixing bugs then these people will need to be paid.

Yes, but that is what we pay our license fee and renewal cost for. It seems at the moment all that money is going towards projects which most people who are paying for it will have no need for.

I understand your hobby site is a customer adn you are important to IPS, but so are the other 3 millions sites from other hobby sites to corporations.

Who also need bugs fixing....

No matter what IPS says there will ALWAYS be some people who will complain about anything they can. If you are one of these people, wake up, stop being self centered, and consider that there are other factors then just your bug, need for a price, need for a release date, or b*tching about a bug in beta that trashes your site.

Okay - firstly, I hardly think asking for working software is being self-centred. We are not talking about bugs in beta we are talking about software we paid for which has bugs recognised and had nothing done about for months.
Secondly, this is the feedback forum - guess what we do here?

[Lindsey_]

I think i know what Bfarber has been working on for this month

IPSBEYOND

[Charles]

All software companies have the same type of process. A new release is made and, as is always the case with software, new bugs are discovered. IPS, as with any software company, then works on fixing those bugs. Unless there are critical bugs they are compiled into a scheduled update.

The problem is that if one of those bugs are impacting you then of course, and understandably so, it is very important to you that it is fixed as soon as possible. The huge problem we face is in the fact that we are dealing with many thousands of customers all with different view points on the matter.

Some say to rebuild the product practically daily which of course is not a realistic solution as you would then never have a stable product.

Some say release updates more regularly with bug fixes but then in the next post another will complain that updates are released too frequently. I am sure we can all search the forums and see both "speed up!" and "slow down!" posts... sometimes even from the same person :lol: It ends up being a no-win scenario for the company.

As IPS has grown we have decided to take a more measured route. If a bug is impacting just a few (or is a minor problem) it may be saved for the next scheduled release. Bugs that impact many more people but still not "the masses" will be introduced as a patch or placed in the knowledge base so people who are experiencing that problem can apply a fix. Critical issues will see a patch or a small release.

On the whole, we have received positive feedback from customers after we have started this approach. We are now able to address issues without always resorting to "fixed in the next version" which is a huge benefit to both the customers and our support staff. Of course there will always be some who view a process only from one viewpoint that disagree with this approach. All I can offer is that no one outside of IPS truly understands what our staff does each day nor do most understand that we receive daily feedback both from this forum and from customers directly contacting us that have helped shape how we approach updates.

[TestingSomething]

The problem though is when Brandon has something else to work on, look what happens. The Bug Tracker has come to a complete halt for a month now. Everything is either marked bogus, working as intended, or left as unfiled. There were 2 bugs in particular that I think are too important to just leave for this long. No they aren't critical, in that they won't cause security issues, but they are noticable very easily. BB Codes left as unparsed in my assistant and a lot of topics still showing the unread icon when they have been read already. The first is just more of an unprofessional "look". But the second one is going to frustrate a lot of people. When I go to forums I go into topics that have the unread icon by it, obviously. Well if you do a search, it still sometimjes is showing topics as unread when you've read them already. So it's going to frustrate people who go through clicking on them and then nothing new is in them.

I just noticed it again this morning. I searched for a member's topics and a lot of them had the unread icon by them, even though it was said to be fixed when 2.3.3 was released.

Both of these issues can definitely be lived with, but when it's been months of the unread bug and probably that long with the other also, that is really pushing it as far as whether it should be acceptable. I don't notice bugs so obviously with other forum software. Maybe I just don't use them enough and they are there. i don't know. But I just know these are very noticable of late and my sites are almost dead, so think how noticable it would be on active sites.

[bfarber]

It's actually a lot more noticeable on less-active sites from what I've seen.

Nonetheless, I'm working on an update. :)

[Axel Wers]

I think i know what Bfarber has been working on for this month

IPSBEYOND

Upgrade to IPB 3.0.0.? :) ;) :D

[bfarber]

Upgrade to IPB 3.0.0.? :) ;) :D

I can assure you that's not it. ;)

[Lindsey_]

So Bfarber is there anydate so far when it will be open

[bfarber]

Soon™

[Lindsey_]

I love the TM

Ok thanks