Bugs and IPS In General

[TestingSomething]

A lot is starting to seem to go downhill with IPS honestly. In the 2+ years I have used it, it seems like nothing gets done nearly as quickly anymore and that there apparently aren't enough people responsible for fixing bugs. Nothing even seems to be getting done in the bug tracker. There ahve been 2 or 3 bugs that I consider major which have not really even been commented much on for weeks which are very noticable bugs thast make the software look unprofessional. There are even bugs over a month old that are still unfiled. It seems with each release of IPS there are more bugs than the previous version and no new features in them.

Not to mention IPB 3 was mentioned over TWO years ago and so why even mention it if it's not even in the scope of things 2 years later?

When I first was using the software it seemed like support was much more polite also. Now they practically go off on people or give rude answers about everything and always say things will get done when they want them to. It's one thing as far as features go, but to respond like that about very noticable bugs is getting kind of ridiculous. My sites are pretty dead anyway, but it bugs me that IPS started acting like this is free software and the customers don't matter.

[Dr. Awesome]

Not to mention IPB 3 was mentioned over TWO years ago and so why even mention it if it's not even in the scope of things 2 years later?

Source?

[Please Delete]

I see a lot of unfiled status's in Bug tracker, I imagine those are the ones you are talking about.

It would be safe to say that they assign a priority and fix the most important ones first. IE anything that could harm the database. I think a prime example of that one is: http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?...mp;bug_cat_id=3

It got fixed fairly fast

PS. Correct me if I am wrong but I am almost certain they have not even started on IPB 3. I forget where I read that but I thought that was official.

I'm not too worried about release numbers, with all the new features they keep adding on minor releases it is almost like getting a major release anyways.

I cannot imagine what else I could want in my forum software, a few more solid hacks made into standard features maybe but that is about it.

[envonge]

I have never had an issue with the support IPS offers they usually respond pretty quickly and respectfully. However I will agree that there are some bugs that need to be resolved and they have not been.

I can even recall a bug that has been around for over a year and has still not been fixed.

Some bugs I think that are major (only if you use the subscription features):

http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?...mp;bug_cat_id=1
http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?...mp;bug_cat_id=6
http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?...mp;bug_cat_id=1

Other than that I think IPS is doing a great job!

[TestingSomething]

For a while there did seem to be a lot which were fixed fairly quickly, such as the orphaned attachments one, but that one in particular is another example of how there are more bugs being introduced which are major than those which are being fixed, it seems. That one and the marked as read/forum/topic markers bugs were never there before 2.3.2. And people are still saying there are issues with the markers, but it has been weeks with really nothing mentioned about it. And as for new features, there have not been any of those really at all for several releases, so I disagree that there are features being added in. I believe the skin url remapping is the only feature added out of the past 4 releases (not including also the betas and RCs which would send it up to 7 or 8 releases I believe).

It just seems less and less is really done between releases. It's gone from a few new features and some bug fixes to less bug fixes and zero new features on the releases. A couple bugs I have noticed (which shows how obvious they are since I never notice bugs) keep not being fixed.

Really the only reason I even mentioned this is becuase it did seem like there was a lot of activity in the bug tracker and now it's been weeks of really not much getting done. Meanwhile the few big bugs are still there. I think I have lost photos from gallery before , by the way, and bugs like that and the orphaned attachments one are definitely going to make people mad becuase of all things to lose data/files on, it's not acceptable on forums.

[bfarber]

I understand users affected by bugs want the fixes as soon as humanly possible, but please understand that on MY end, my job is not solely dedicated to fixing IPB bugs. I do a ton of work - literally - and I'm working on some big things right now that require a lot of attention.

I do apologize for any bugs being present - it's always unfortunate. But we will address them as soon as we can, without halting everything else that we are doing in the mean time. :) I will say that my next priority (after what I'm working on presently) is a maintenance release for IPB.

[TestingSomething]

I know, but that was my point really is they seem to be spreading staff thin becuase of a lot of projects. In the past it was always you and Matt both responding to a lot of those bug reports.

Anyway I understand. It's just frustrating becuase a couple bugs are really annoying. In reality they aren't the end of the world, but for some reason they are annoying me to death.

[bfarber]

In general, I work mostly on IPB. I then occasionally release an update for Gallery here and there, on our internal schedule, and download manager doesn't generally need too much attention (though an update for it is in the works). Right now, however, is just an extremely busy time for us. I'll be honest - I'm not working on Nexus at all, if you think that's where my attention is being diverted to. :)

[Lindsey_]

Ok cool
Well this BIG THING will be good guys so lets wait a few weeks before we ask for bug reports to be fixed or what ever :P

[Alex]

What makes you think this 'big thing' has anything to do with a release or anything new, could just be piles of paperwork, or something that isnt going to be released?

[Lindsey_]

Ah i get you but you never know

[Mark]

I will say that my next priority (after what I'm working on presently)

Is this one of those projects doesn't turn up (like Vectura and Connect) or will turn up, nothing like the original plan, years later (like Dynamic and Nexus)?

Granted I don't know exactly how IPS works, but it seems like when the guy who is in charge of fixing bugs in IPB is also in charge of Gallery, IDM, Converge (a bit), administrating IPSBeyond and an extra secret product, there isn't enough staff. IMO, there should be one developer on each of those projects.

[bfarber]

If there were one developer for each product, though, can you imagine how much each license would cost to PAY each developer?

This is a big project in terms of my time right now - but also a relatively temporary one, as in it's not an ongoing project.

[Lindsey_]

I so agree
They need to get more staff so this stuff can be done

Tickets will be better times
Staff will have less stress

[Lindsey_]

Ah ok so this Project is it for the Public or not

[bfarber]

All be revealed in due time. ;)

[Watty]

Just remember that the more staff you add (be it for customer support or development), the more $$ the company has to pay out to their employees which obviously affects their bottom line (what, you mean IPS is a business?! :o ). So if they add several more staff and the bottom line gets jacked - then the price of their products and services could very easily go up.

I don't use the customer/tech support very often, so I can't comment directly on how good/bad the support is - but I know Lindy and Charles won't tolerate crappy support. CS, in all honesty, is absolutely a crappy job. Some customers are great to work with and others are a nightmare. You can only hold a customers hand for so long until the manhours just don't make it sensible or productive anymore. I once spent over 4 hours on a phone support call for an IPS customer. They had no idea what FTP was, what an index page was, cookies, etc, etc, etc. All in all, very little to do with IPB - and I had to return nearly 20 calls that I missed during that 4 hours. Anyway, we've all got CS horror stories... like I said, the job in and of itself can be one of the most frustrating jobs around. Suffice it to say - I tend to have a lot more patience and understanding when dealing with CS folks - all thanks to my stint with IPS. Things get done quicker with being nice vice spewing hate and criticism.

/end babble

[Keith J. Kacin]

Is this one of those projects doesn't turn up

Duke Nukem Forever.

[AndyF]

Duke Nukem Forever.

:lol:


On topic, I dont think id like it if the licence / renew price had to rise a lot because a couple of extra staff were taken on to speed things up... :unsure:

[TestingSomething]

:lol:

On topic, I dont think id like it if the licence / renew price had to rise a lot because a couple of extra staff were taken on to speed things up... :unsure:

You would rather there be noticable bugs?

There seems to be less attention to support than there was a year ago and in that time prices DID rise drastically.

All of my licenses involving support expired a month or two ago and I keep not bothering renewing yet becuase 1. there are almost never new gallery or blog releases with new features and 2. For IPB I have perpetual licenses and why pay for support when anything I need support with is a bug that I will be told isn't fixed yet?

[Louis M.]

I can say that when I have had issues and logged tickets, the replies were incredibly fast and solutions followed right behind them. I never felt like they were canned answers or someone just trying to get me to shut up. Customer Service is one of the worst jobs in the universe. Unless you have done it then you have no idea.

[TestingSomething]

Yes, but I am not talking about tickets. Support has been decent as far as that goes. But if it's a bug in the software support can't do anything about it themselves.

It's frustrating that so many things that have bugs seem to not get fixed quickly lately. Guitar Hero 3 is in freakin MONO for the Wii version and they haven't even done anything about that problem yet. In past years I never came across so many products which have bugs as now. :(

In general I do not notice problems with IPB software. But lately it has been much worse as far as noticable bugs, so I just don't understand why it's becoming more noticable instead of less so.

At least that annoying last visit bug is pretty much fixed.

[bfarber]

You have to appreciate though, that a bug in the software that greatly affects you isn't the only thing we have to address. Unfortunately, I don't have the capacity to just drop everything I do (and I do a lot) to fix a bug - there will ALWAYS be bugs, so if that were the case I'd be doing nothing but fixing bugs constantly.

We've released updates pretty consistently. Even though we didn't release 3.0 yet, we released 2.2 and 2.3 within the last year or two, and both were pretty major updates. We've had a maintenance release for IPB within the last month or so, we've had a major update for Gallery (and a maintenance release that followed) within the last couple of months. We released a new product as final (Converge) about a month ago. Blog has had a maintenance release about 2 months ago, and the Download Manager has a new version (with new features) currently being tested.

I assure you, we don't sit and do nothing. :)

[Mark]

You have to appreciate though, that a bug in the software that greatly affects you isn't the only thing we have to address. Unfortunately, I don't have the capacity to just drop everything I do (and I do a lot) to fix a bug - there will ALWAYS be bugs, so if that were the case I'd be doing nothing but fixing bugs constantly.

We've released updates pretty consistently. Even though we didn't release 3.0 yet, we released 2.2 and 2.3 within the last year or two, and both were pretty major updates. We've had a maintenance release for IPB within the last month or so, we've had a major update for Gallery (and a maintenance release that followed) within the last couple of months. We released a new product as final (Converge) about a month ago. Blog has had a maintenance release about 2 months ago, and the Download Manager has a new version (with new features) currently being tested.

I assure you, we don't sit and do nothing. :)

We're not saying you don't do anything - we are saying that you do too much.
All those things you listed besides the Blog were your personal projects, or you had major involvement in, and you are the single person who fixes bugs in IPB.

You say that if you fixed a bug every time one came up you'd be fixing them constantly - we want *someone* doing that! Forgive us for wanting the software we paid for to work as it's suppose to. I appreciate that there will always be bugs but if you had someone working on these bugs more intently - there would certainly be less around.
I know that IPB is a fantastic piece of software but I'm sure even you, can agree that bugs which have been left unfiled or simply confirmed for months is unacceptable.

[Watty]

I agree that bugs should be fixed as soon as possible - but if you think about it, it's a catch 22 for them.

Yes, bugs need to be fixed - but if IPS were to release point fixes (let's say) on a weekly basis, can you imagine the tongue lashings they'd receive because of "oh great, now I need to redo my mods - or now my skin doesn't work... can't you guys get it right the first time?!".

I don't normally hang out in the bug tracker area, so I'm not up to speed on what's there and what isn't - but at a minimum, I'm happy that IPS is on the ball when it comes to security fixes, no matter how remote the possibility is for a security breach.