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IPS 4.0: The current state of BBCode and its future. Is BBCODE officially abandoned?

grinler

By grinler
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Emsi Apprentice

Emsi

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Posted

 

You can Copy and paste the code or copy and paste the Quote. Both will do the same thing. The only difference is the way it displays to the end user that is copying it. They don't have to change WHAT they copy. It's just a matter of changing how they think of it. I don't know about you but I can always copy a template as long as they are available, if you give them the correct template (without the code) it's the same thing as giving them the same template WITH the code.

This will still require all our volunteers to maintain multiple versions. One pre-formatted in a Word file or so so it can be copied with formatting in place and then the BBCode version of it for all other communities they participate in. That being said, volunteers are only one part of the issue.

Some of the tools we use on a daily basis will emit BBCode formatted logs, that are easy and convenient for the user to post and for our experts to read due to the embedded BBCode formatting. Breaking BBCode will also break these logs. In the best case scenario the BBCode would just be ignored, which may annoy the expert that is helping you clean your system, but is essentially just a nuisance. In the worst case scenario the BBCode breaks the display of the log somehow, leading to malicious entries being missed or entries appearing malicious although they actually aren't. Both can end quite badly for the user.

I am glad that you found a way to work around the messed up BBCode parser in your community. But you have the admins of two of the biggest malware removal communities out there telling you BBCode is essential for their type of community. You may want to listen to them.

Morrigan Grand Master

Morrigan

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I won't say the comment that I really want to in response to your rudeness instead I will keep to the rest of your comment.

I understand that it's a difficult change over (and IPS has stated that they aren't sacrificing support so if you have issues to submit them to them so they can fix it).

I just want to advise you that instead of looking for solutions that might also be an alternative (even if temporary) you are just looking at the negative. People here are trying to be helpful in providing you with ways to at least try to help especially since it is such a large problem for you.

opentype Grand Master

opentype

Posted
Posted

@Ralph H. Would you agree that you should be able to create a list of pros and a list of cons at PHPBB.com, copy and paste it here and retain the formatting?

Let my try from here. 

 

 

Looks fine to me. Plain copy and paste. 

 

Just because the problem didn't affect you, doesn't mean it's not real.

Just because something may not be important for your site, does not mean it is not for others.

What the hell? ;-)
Are you really thinking I can’t understand specific problems unless I have personally experienced them? Describe your use cases calm and factually and I will get it. If not, I will ask. If I disagree with you, then I have probably reasons for it – and that reason is not: because it’s not relevant for my site. 

grinler Collaborator

grinler

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  • Author
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[b]This is an old BBCode Template that you are talking about[/b]
Copying and pasting issues, I personally had the problem a lot in 3.0 so I opted to change to Rich Text Codes instead.

You can Copy and paste the code or copy and paste the Quote. Both will do the same thing. The only difference is the way it displays to the end user that is copying it. They don't have to change WHAT they copy. It's just a matter of changing how they think of it. I don't know about you but I can always copy a template as long as they are available, if you give them the correct template (without the code) it's the same thing as giving them the same template WITH the code.

Ahh..thank you for clarifying.  I do understand that we can convert the canned posts to html and then copy as needed into the WYSIWYG editor. The biggest problem is portability.  With the way support communities work, many times helpers at one site float between many others.  So they need a set of canned support posts that will be formatted and display the same on all these different sites with different forum software. The only similarity between the sites is they all support BBCode.

Unfortunately copy and pasting between different forums software and their WYSIWYG editors can lead to formatting issues. As an example, I posted your reply to me from this site into this post as seen below. Notice the misformatted quote title. If this was in BBCode, there would be absolutely no issue with this (unless BBCode was broken).

Copied post below.

---------------------------------------------

Posted 1 hour ago · Report post

[b]This is an old BBCode Template that you are talking about[/b]
Copying and pasting issues, I personally had the problem a lot in 3.0 so I opted to change to Rich Text Codes instead.
  Quote

This is an old BBCode Template that you are talking about
Copying and pasting issues, I personally had the problem a lot in 3.0 so I opted to change to Rich Text Codes instead.

You can Copy and paste the code or copy and paste the Quote. Both will do the same thing. The only difference is the way it displays to the end user that is copying it. They don't have to change WHAT they copy. It's just a matter of changing how they think of it. I don't know about you but I can always copy a template as long as they are available, if you give them the correct template (without the code) it's the same thing as giving them the same template WITH the code.

opentype Grand Master

opentype

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Posted

You realize that it isn´t formated the same way?

What is different that can be controlled through platform-compatible bb-codes‽ (Because that is what is being asked here)

grinler Collaborator

grinler

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I understand that it's a difficult change over (and IPS has stated that they aren't sacrificing support so if you have issues to submit them to them so they can fix it).

That's the problem though. I had posted a nested list BBCode bug in May.  bfarber closed it as if there was no problem. When I pmed him directly I was told that they "discussed this internally and decided not to invest time to "fix" this issue now.  You can use the list button on the editor to insert properly formatted lists without any issues."

It wasn't until I posted this topic that the bug was reopened and stated it was actually an issue.  So I disagree...no matter what IPS states, I honestly do not think they plan on supporting BBCode unless people who need it complain.  What I am asking for is full transparency, because if they are not planning on supporting it, I wont bother upgrading and will find another vendor. 

I just want to advise you that instead of looking for solutions that might also be an alternative (even if temporary) you are just looking at the negative. People here are trying to be helpful in providing you with ways to at least try to help especially since it is such a large problem for you.

I do understand that you are trying to help, but unfortunately what we are saying is that your suggestions just will not work for us. We are not talking about 10-20 bbcode formatted posts. We are talking about hundreds if not thousands when its all said and done. Then when you get into how WYSIWYG editors vary from forum to forum... well that's just another problem.

grinler Collaborator

grinler

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  • Author
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That bug is open and active. Mark reopened it. (I looked)

Yes,  because of this topic. Otherwise, it would not have been reopened and is just another example of how IPS is not supporting BBCoding even when we were promised they would.

Mark Grand Master

Mark

Posted
Posted

Yes,  because of this topic. Otherwise, it would not have been reopened and is just another example of how IPS is not supporting BBCoding even when we were promised they would.

Not at all. As I said right at the start of this topic we support BBCode. In the bug report linked to, a simple mistake was made, and, since you pointed it out, I corrected that. You could have just replied to the bug report saying something like "Hey, I think you may have misunderstood" and it would have been reopened too.

As I said before, if you are experiencing any other issues, please do let us know about them and we will endeavour to resolve them.

Morrigan Grand Master

Morrigan

Posted
Posted

Not at all. As I said right at the start of this topic we support BBCode. In the bug report linked to, a simple mistake was made, and, since you pointed it out, I corrected that. You could have just replied to the bug report saying something like "Hey, I think you may have misunderstood" and it would have been reopened too.

As I said before, if you are experiencing any other issues, please do let us know about them and we will endeavour to resolve them.

This does work. I posted a bug and Brandon thought I was talking about a bug that was already fixed. I responded and showed what I was talking about and it was reopened so that they can fix it.

grinler Collaborator

grinler

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Not at all. As I said right at the start of this topic we support BBCode. In the bug report linked to, a simple mistake was made, and, since you pointed it out, I corrected that. You could have just replied to the bug report saying something like "Hey, I think you may have misunderstood" and it would have been reopened too.

As I said before, if you are experiencing any other issues, please do let us know about them and we will endeavour to resolve them.

I tried replying. It was closed. Wouldn't let me. I must have missed something.

Regardless, as I said, my concern wasn't that it was closed, but rather the response I received when I further queried Brandon via private message.  To me that response showed that resolving issues with bbcode is not a priority.

Hoping to be proven wrong.

vpsBoard Explorer

vpsBoard

Posted
Posted

I'm one who is disappointed to not see the BBCode editor in IPB4.0. I won't upgrade my forum to 4.0.X until the feature returns or until I switch community platforms. I have too many members who disable the WYSIWYG editor or browse the web with JS disabled and prefer the use of BBCode to publish content to the forum.

Yes, I know you can still 'use' BBCode, but you can't view/edit the BBCode after publishing a post during an edit as you're stuck with the damn WYSIWYG editor. The ability to view the source of your response or post via BBCode and toggle back and forth as you can in 3.4.X is required in IPB4.

Why would this be phased out? Minus the admin area in IPB4 the rest of the new IPB4 is pretty nice. But I can't upgrade to IPB4 if my community will lose the ability to post content using the BBCode editor like you can on every single other main stream platform available.

grinler Collaborator

grinler

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  • Author
Posted

Can someone from IPS management please let us know if the following will be added back to IPS 4.0?  There are features of IPS 4.0 that are required by my community and if you do not plan on supporting these features like you did in the past, then I will consider other options before I make a painful upgrade. I need full transparency and honesty please.

1. Preview will be put back in

2. We will be able to edit BBCode in a previously posted post.

Personally, I can't even fathom why preview was removed.  Every other forum software has it. Even ask a question sites like Stackoverflow provide a preview. What was the logic behind this?

SiLink Explorer

SiLink

Posted
Posted

Can someone from IPS management please let us know if the following will be added back to IPS 4.0?  There are features of IPS 4.0 that are required by my community and if you do not plan on supporting these features like you did in the past, then I will consider other options before I make a painful upgrade. I need full transparency and honesty please.

1. Preview will be put back in

2. We will be able to edit BBCode in a previously posted post.

Personally, I can't even fathom why preview was removed.  Every other forum software has it. Even ask a question sites like Stackoverflow provide a preview. What was the logic behind this?

There isn't a need for preview as it's a WYSIWYG editor, you're previewing it in real time.

Tiki Tiki Collaborator

Tiki Tiki

Posted
Posted

1. Preview will be put back in

CKEditor Plugin: Preview

There isn't a need for preview as it's a WYSIWYG editor, you're previewing it in real time.

Aside from the already mentioned BBCode problem, there is also the issue of different font sizes / line spacing for CKEditor vs an actual finished post. I publish some pretty sophisticated documents with lists of items containing floated images, purchasing links, etc., and what CKEditor displays is NOT the same as what IPB 4.0 produces in the end.

I understand there are some CSS changes that you can do to make CKEditor and IPB 4.0 agree on a post, but the fact that they're different out of the box is pretty stupid IMHO.

chilihead Veteran

chilihead

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Posted

Preview could also be useful to see how your poll looks. I often put link code in my polls and when I post there are malformed links. In 3.4 though, preview did not let you preview polls. So if brought back, I'm saying, it would be good if polls parsed so you could preview them.

David.. Proficient

David..

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CKEditor 4.5 has been released and it will be bundled in a future IPS version. Hopefully it has been improved by a lot!

You can see their changelog in Ckeditor's official page.

chilihead Veteran

chilihead

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Posted

I wonder why bbcode doesn't parse like emoticons until posted. Would that solve anything? Or be harder to edit (with source off)? I guess a preview could be beneficial.

blair Enthusiast

blair

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Grinler, I don't plan to upgrade before 4.1.1 at the earliest. Hopefully they won't throw me an EOL curveball prior. I'm guessing you haven't read much about the performance issues with 4.0? 

I wonder why bbcode doesn't parse like emoticons until posted....

Because emoticons are one tag. Bbcode had opening and closing tags. E.g. code /code

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