Need help getting CycleChat up to speed

[Clickfinity]

I moved to IPB3 because I wanted to expand past forums into other things - IP Content being a big part of that - and I liked the idea of chat and downloads and gallery.

I invested a considerable sum of time, money, and energy in first investigating the software, then trying it, then moving everything over.

Technically it has been very successful - unfortunately too many of my members are not getting on with it and activity on the forums has really slowed.

Long-term members have stopped coming as regularly and everyone I've polled about their lack of recent activity has said the same thing; it's slow, clunky, and laborious to use - it's not a pleasure any more so I've stopped visiting (in comparison with the previous vB incarnation).

I need to get CycleChat up to speed or else I'm moving back.

A forum is about people being able to interact quickly and simply and I'd rather have a busy forum running old software, than a flashy new one that people don't like using.

Please help me get CycleChat running better ...

Thanks,
Shaun :D

P.S. If any IPS staff want access to my old vB install for a comparison, PM me and I'll send you the URL and password details.

[AndyF]

I wonder if there's any tweaks you can do to your server to increase speed :unsure: , I assume you are using a VPS or dedicated box not shared hosting ? :)

Having said that, I just visited and it seems quite reasonable speed-wise (as a guest) for me.

[Fishfish0001]

Personally I think you're site looks very nice. Im not sure what is "clunky" about it? What are they saying they don't like?

Edit: It does appear to have a second or 2 delay between loading, which is normal to me as it happens on a lot of big websites.

[Clickfinity]

I've added another 2GB to the server (takes it to 4GB) and tweaked Memcache and MySQL to ensure plenty of caching.

I think I need to open-up my old vB site so you can compare - I can't do it from where I am now, but will sort it later and let you all know.

It'll help you compare speed and layout between the two and should better illustrate the issue.

I expect the likely culprit is the physical size of the resulting pages, and the more modern HTML and styling, but maybe some of the more experienced members can point me towards things I can try - software or server.

Cheers,
Shaun :D

[AndyF]

Let me know if you would rather this topic live in "Server Management, Resources, Optimization" , I did consider moving it initially but as it was a more generic enquiry I thought I'd leave it where it was. Just that if its server specific issues / tweaking that is usually more appropriate, but up to you. :)

[VioAdmin]

If you are on a shared-hosting account, I suggest move to a Dedicated or at least a VPN.

I personally don't see any speed issues as I browse your web site. Another thing is patience. Give it some time, new members will become 'regulars' and your web site should stabilize itself. If the traffic loss is dramatic(25%+drop) then perhaps you might have to consider other options including reverting back to vB.

I really think you should hang on and keep doing what you do with the web site for 2 months and see the progress report from that.

[Genestoy]

Another thing you need to remember is that humans are creatures of habit and resist changes, especially major changes. Give it some time and it will come around :thumbsup:

[Mike54]

Shaun, when I converted my sites, I had 10-12 people on one of them grumbling about not liking the new UI. Two of them packed it in and left. Within 6 weeks they were both back and both admitting they just don't like change, once they're comfortable with something. They have also both admitted they like the IPB user experience much more than vB. I've found this clear across the board with all my sites. As soon as people get used to the different UI, they see it's much nicer than vB's.

If you can sort particular features your users are struggling with, write up a quick how-to guide to help them sort out how to do things.

If they can't give you particulars, they're just being resistant to the change. It's a perfectly natural response. Have you tried to re-skin the IPB site to look like the vB site? That helped me win people over.

[AnthonyKinson]

Just had a look at your forum and pages load faster than i can blink, definitely no issues with it being slow for me.

[Clickfinity]

I'm thinking of trying to re-skin like the old forum layout, but once I open the old forums you'll see the difference. Page loading is much faster on the old software - now if I can make IPB load as quickly I think that'll be half the battle won.

Are there any vB 3 mimic skins around that I could buy to shorten the development time?

Cheers,
Shaun :D

[Clickfinity]

Have you tried it in IE6 or IE7?

[Biker.GA]

If you have users that insist on using IE6, there's a problem. I've made it known under no circumstance will I support IE 6 or FF 2. If they wish to continue to use outdated and insecure software, that's their problem and I'm not going to knock myself out in supporting it. There comes a point in time where you have to stop holding the hands of the reluctant and force them to upgrade.

[rastaX]

I think I understand where you are coming from. Although your current site loads pretty fast for me, 5 seconds or less, in my own experience, vB is faster. Especially the vBCMS/Articles vs. IPContent. At first I thought that might be your issue, but it doesn't look like you are using it.

You will have some resistance from your members after any change. You have a big board so a handful of users can make a lot of noise. I can tell you that after upgrading my old board from 2.3.5 to 3.1, our traffic has dropped considerably even though it increased immediately after the upgrade.

Maybe something you can try is to give them something new and interesting. You know your community best, try to think of something they would find cool.Maybe throw the Shoutbox up and see if they like it..

[Clickfinity]

Just for clarity, I'm on a dedicated Debian server with just a couple of other (low traffic) sites hosted on it, so CC has pretty much all of the server resources at it's disposal.

Bandwidth isn't an issue either - as a long-term customer I have a virtually uncapped service.

Cheers,
Shaun :D

[phinsup]

My guess is, it's just people who can't deal with change. I seem to have that issue everytime I change something seemingly stupid. I'll get complaints like "why did you move the garage tab, it used to be right after the forums, now i've got to move my mouse another 3 inches". Obviously a traffic drop is a concern, so you gotta do what you gotta do. About the only suggestion I can make is set up a feedback form and ask people to give you some feedback, you may find out it's something silly that can easily be fixed or you may find that just involving them in the process makes them happy.

[Clickfinity]

Ironically, the very busy "New Forum Software Feedback" forum has gone quite as I've addressed initial change-over issues that came up.

My real concern is that the people who are not getting on with it are not bothering to say so and are instead just not using the forums.

For example, the CycleChat Cafe is our most popular forum and the key area for off-topic banter. Before the move we used to have every topic having a new post so the whole first page was full of "today" replies by around 11am. It was after 5pm the other day and is overall noticeably quieter.

Now it could be that masses of my members were using IE6 and now have difficulty - fair enough, old technology, upgrade or come back some time later when you've got a new machine - but I don't think that's it.

Let me open the old vB forums later, I'm sure that will help everyone compare and advise.

Thanks,
Shaun :D

[Clickfinity]

Okay, I've opened-up the old forums so there's something to compare it to.

Do this as a test: Visit the homepage - navigate to the CycleChat Cafe (about two thirds down)- pick any thread and load the first page - click the site logo at the top of the page to go back to the home page - then visit any other forum.

Do this a couple of times so you've got a good idea of which one was quicker and tell me which one was the fastest?

http://www.cyclechat.net/
http://www.cyclechat.net/oldforums/

Cheers,
Shaun :D

(Note: Even quicker - Click the top logo - click the New Forum Software Feedback forum link - click the top logo (waiting for the page to fully load each time: old site - 4 seconds ... new site - 10 seconds [using the IPBoard skin as well!!]).

[Mesmer]

when I use the ipb skin on your new board the speed is about the same as here. (pretty quick) The only thing slowing it down are the google ads.

The logo on your new board is a bit larger than on your old board but after a view clicks around the speed on both boards is about the same for me.

[Calvin39]

I do agree with you, your VB site is loading far faster than the IPB one im using Firefox 3.6.8.

[Clickfinity]

when I use the ipb skin on your new board the speed is about the same as here. (pretty quick) The only thing slowing it down are the google ads.

The logo on your new board is a bit larger than on your old board but after a view clicks around the speed on both boards is about the same for me.

Thanks for looking, and please don't think me rude ... but are you being serious? You can't see a difference in speed of page loading between the two sites, and you think the Google ads are holding things up on the new site?

What browser and machine are you using?

Cheers,
Shaun :D

[MissNinja]

I counted two seconds or less of load time for each, clicking the logo at the top of the default skins. I don't see any significant speed difference at all.

Additionally, I don't see how anyone could prefer your old boards to what you've got now. Your new skin looks wonderful and the new board looks about a million times better.

[Calvin39]

I counted two seconds or less of load time for each, clicking the logo at the top of the default skins. I don't see any significant speed difference at all.

Additionally, I don't see how anyone could prefer your old boards to what you've got now. Your new skin looks wonderful and the new board looks about a million times better.

I agree with you about the look, iPB does look more pleasing and slick. :thumbsup:

[Biker.GA]

With Windows 7/Opera 10.61, there really isn't much difference between the two. I'll check later on Linux/Opera once I've whacked a few beasties in WoW and then fire up Linux to do some work.

[Mesmer]

What browser and machine are you using?

Cheers,

Shaun :D

At that moment:
FF 3.6.8 / win7 / asus EeePC (1 gig ram, 1.67GHz)

[Clickfinity]

I'm really surprised at this ... you've browsed into forums, clicked on threads, navigated around quickly and them compared the same activity against the new IPB site?

I know my sites are reasonably fast compared with a lot of other hobby sites - I'm lucky enough to have the dedicated server - but the difference between navigating the old and new sites has always been quite marked to me.

I don't think it's a familiarlity thing - I'm certainly quite fluent in IPB navigation now.

Maybe I should start at the server level and make sure it is properly optimised first, then look at the skin and maybe even create one that mimics the old vB3 site so that people can key-in to their previous experience and go "back" to the way they used it before (albeit with IPB at the back-end).

Personally, I don't want to go back - I moved because I wanted to go forward, offer better features, and have a core user management system that plugged into everything else at the site - a single place to manage user accounts and permissions from etc. but my membership are important to me and I want to give them the best.

Apologies if I'm coming across as ungrateful or pedantic - it's not my intent - I just want to get it going as fast as it can because we're used to it running lightning fast (as one member described it) on the "old" site.

Any help appreciated - especially in terms of optimising the server and skins.

Thanks,
Shaun :D