For Rikki... Skinning Suggestions

[IBTheme]

I'm not having that problem. On my test site I have one account with an avatar and one without and they both show up as they are expected to.

[Lewis P]

Let's cheat a little bit then:

I know what we're talking about here - avatars from the gallery?... try this:

<php>if( strpos($author['avatar'], 'blank_avatar') ){ str_replace( "style_avatars", "style_images%2F".$this->registry->output->skin['set_image_dir'], str_replace( '.gif', '.png', $author['avatar'] ) ); }</php>

<ul class='user_details'>

                <if test="avatar:|:$author['member_id'] AND $author['avatar']">

                        <li class='avatar'><a href="{parse url="showuser={$author['member_id']}" template="showuser" seotitle="{$author['members_seo_name']}" base="public"}" title="{$this->lang->words['view_profile']}">{$author['avatar']}</a></li>

                <else />

                        <li class='avatar'>{$author['avatar']}</li>

                </if>

[skinbydragonfly]

erm.. not sure what you mean Lewis, the avatars are just normal individually uploaded ones by users, not from an Avatar Gallery. This is on my live site btw.. not localhost.

Just tried it.. and YAYAYAAYAYA! that got it :D Many many thanks again Lewis

[Lewis P]

Oh well, it still solved the issue at least. :)


Damn... it's 1AM. Better go to bed.

[skinbydragonfly]

lOL gods.. now the blank one is broken again LOL I give up!!! :P

[Jaggi]

You don't need to use images if you use CSS3. You just use [font="Courier New"]border-radius: 8px;[/font]. It isn't supported in IE though, so it'll show square corners.

just to add to rikki you need to add the following two styles also to get it to work in all supported browsers:

-moz-border-radius: 8px;
-webkit-border-radius: 8px;

[bfarber]

This gets back to a more corporate philosphy issue that a number of us are saying we are uneasy with ... what we were saying about the pace of upgrades that you guys [IPS] are undertaking... would it not be worth looking at the concept of slowing the release schedule somewhat, and actually making these changes that may not add sexy new features.. but that DO enormously add to the usability of the software, not just for us skinners, but for anyone who wants to customize their own community (most do either via a pre-made skin, or by making it themselves).

I know you probably follow some kind of AGILE methodology for development and that this is not scheduled into the next iteration.... but please can it be put on the agenda to be scheduled in sooner rather than later.

It's not so much a corporate philosophy (nor do we specifically follow a standardized methodology such as AGILE for development). We're just at a point with 3.1 where implementing massive skin changes like this would reset our time frames significantly. Instead of resetting 3.1 several weeks to implement some skin changes at this stage, it is better to finish up 3.1 so everyone can enjoy it, and then start adding these sorts of changes into 3.2 (or whatever Rikki decides to do with the feedback, exactly).

This is really how it's always been. Skinners don't deal with this as much, because you guys don't ask for many changes, but feature requests and code changes for mod authors have always been this way. You reach a point where you can't keep drastically changing the version you're working on, or it's never released.

[RazorThemes]

These are some great points raised and thanks to Kim and Sheri for taking the time to post. I'm in agreement with everything mentioned here, in particular the use of php code in the templates for certain critical visuals. This makes it very restrictive in regards to skinning and I do hope this is improved dramatically in the very near future (even if it's a maintenance release of the 3.1 branch).

[Amy T]

It's not so much a corporate philosophy (nor do we specifically follow a standardized methodology such as AGILE for development). We're just at a point with 3.1 where implementing massive skin changes like this would reset our time frames significantly. Instead of resetting 3.1 several weeks to implement some skin changes at this stage, it is better to finish up 3.1 so everyone can enjoy it, and then start adding these sorts of changes into 3.2 (or whatever Rikki decides to do with the feedback, exactly).

This is really how it's always been. Skinners don't deal with this as much, because you guys don't ask for many changes, but feature requests and code changes for mod authors have always been this way. You reach a point where you can't keep drastically changing the version you're working on, or it's never released.

I do understand I may have to start making skins again after 3.1 how ever I may start before that.

[Ryan H.]

Regarding things being locked by PHP... this is one I ran into a few weeks ago while I was working on Minima.

During 3.0 development, it was stated that many things would be moved into templates, allowing skinners full control over exactly what happens. One particular example presented was dates--there's the date parse tag along with half a dozen different date formats provided, and...it's not actually used anywhere in the default skin, at least that I've noticed.

For all of the forum and topic indexes, the date is passed into a template as a pre-formatted variable, as in "{$data['last_post']}". If it's even possible at all to customize it on a per-skin level, maybe by parsing that back into a timestamp then re-formatting it [and believe me, I spent a good few hours trying it], it's certainly not easy.

[Terry - AKA Dumbledore]

I would like to just say thanks tot Sherri and Kim, for their eloquent expressions of what I think is the concerns of all the skinners.

[Mat Barrie]

For all of the forum and topic indexes, the date is passed into a template as a pre-formatted variable, as in "{$data['last_post']}". If it's even possible at all to customize it on a per-skin level, maybe by parsing that back into a timestamp then re-formatting it [and believe my, I spent a couple hours trying it], it's certainly not easy.

Don't get me started on $data['last_post'] and friends. In 3.1, it seems that to customize that stuff, every skin will need to ship with half a dozen data hooks. Not pretty at all.

[bfarber]

Regarding things being locked by PHP... this is one I ran into a few weeks ago while I was working on Minima.

During 3.0 development, it was stated that many things would be moved into templates, allowing skinners full control over exactly what happens. One particular example presented was dates--there's the date parse tag along with half a dozen different date formats provided, and...it's not actually used anywhere in the default skin, at least that I've noticed.

For all of the forum and topic indexes, the date is passed into a template as a pre-formatted variable, as in "{$data['last_post']}". If it's even possible at all to customize it on a per-skin level, maybe by parsing that back into a timestamp then re-formatting it [and believe me, I spent a good few hours trying it], it's certainly not easy.

In MOST templates, it is this way. The date is passed in as a timestamp, then is formatted in the skin. Picking a random example:

skin_global -> globalTemplate

<if test="lastvisit:|:$this->memberData['member_id'] AND $this->memberData['last_visit']"><p>{$this->lang->words['you_last_visit']} {parse date="$this->memberData['last_visit']" format="short"}</p></if> </li>

					<li>{$this->lang->words['time_now']} {$footer_items['time']}

That's just the first one I opened. I'm sure there are some instances where it's formatted on the backend (and there may or may not be a reason for those instances), but you'd have to point them out to us if you want them changed. :) That particular example actually verges on being a bug in my eyes.

The general philosophy we tried to use with IPB 3 is that if code is executing purely to change how something is displayed (as is the case with formatting dates) it should be handled at the "view" level (meaning, in the skin and language files). To that end, it's rare that we should be formatting dates on the back end. When you find cases where we are, point them out.

Don't get me started on $data['last_post'] and friends. In 3.1, it seems that to customize that stuff, every skin will need to ship with half a dozen data hooks. Not pretty at all.

Can you clarify? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Why would a skin need to ship with any hooks at all?

[Ryan H.]

I guess you tend to only notice things that don't quite go your way. :)

Would you like me to file a report noting the instances I'm aware of, then?

[bfarber]

I guess you tend to only notice things that don't quite go your way. :)

Would you like me to file a report noting the instances I'm aware of, then?

Yes, that's fine. :)

[skinbydragonfly]

It's not so much a corporate philosophy (nor do we specifically follow a standardized methodology such as AGILE for development). We're just at a point with 3.1 where implementing massive skin changes like this would reset our time frames significantly. Instead of resetting 3.1 several weeks to implement some skin changes at this stage, it is better to finish up 3.1 so everyone can enjoy it, and then start adding these sorts of changes into 3.2 (or whatever Rikki decides to do with the feedback, exactly).

Well I take your point, but I for one won't be enjoying all the work that 3.1 will create for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is really how it's always been. Skinners don't deal with this as much, because you guys don't ask for many changes, but feature requests and code changes for mod authors have always been this way. You reach a point where you can't keep drastically changing the version you're working on, or it's never released.

That's true, we (skinners) don't tend to ask for much... nor do we get asked our opinions very often - perhaps we should ;) After all, the reality is that most people don't want to use the skin that ships with the product, (whilst I am sure I will be inundated with people claiming how freaking great the default skin is and that they use it exclusively... reality is they are in the minority) and we skinners do seriously Value Add to the extent that a lot of loyal customers would even move platforms to be able to still use the look and feel created by X skinner... Many have expressed this to me over the years, however I (and I am sure most IPB skinners) have no desire to go anywhere else.

The thing is it took me months to realise it wasn't me that was the problem!!! :P *singing Lily Allen's It's not me.. it's You*

During that time I have been massively depressed about it, de-motivated and generally very unhappy... to the extent that I have almost walked away from it completely - I do feel so much better now that I know it is NOT just me, it's a problem all skinners who do heavy customizations have been struggling with.

The good news is that even just airing my grievances has given me a new lease of life!!! I finally got the Blogs looking half decent... not as styled as I would like, but close enough after struggling with it for blooooomin weeks! http://www.skinbydragonfly.com/forums/index.php?app=blog

Thanks again for at least listening.

[Wolfie]

That's true, we (skinners) don't tend to ask for much... nor do we get asked our opinions very often - perhaps we should ;) After all, the reality is that most people don't want to use the skin that ships with the product, (whilst I am sure I will be inundated with people claiming how freaking great the default skin is and that they use it exclusively... reality is they are in the minority)

I think the default skin is very nicely designed and is not a bad one to use. However, if everyone used the default skin for a board they purchased (regardless of it being IPB, vB, phpBB, etc), then all sites would eventually look like each other and that would get quite boring.

I personally keep the default skin, modifying the logo to reflect the name of my sites, but then I prefer to get a few different skins, in hopes of becoming more unique from other boards who don't use the same skin(s) that I've picked. Obviously there will be some sites using the same skins (free or paid), but at least there is more uniqueness.

So I can understand why some like the default skin, but I agree that skinners (all of them) are very important to the community. I may not like the styles that some put out, but there are others who do and that's what they choose to use. I like the style and quality of one of the skinners here and so far is the only person I've paid money to in order to get skins that I like. Some people do great work and can afford to charge money for the work and they deserve to get paid for it. Then there are others that put out some nice/decent skins but are not quite good enough that I feel compelled to spend money on. Either because the cost is more than I feel its worth (if it's worth anything other than free in my opinion), or because I don't like the style.

So yes, skinners are definitely important, as they help admins to start standing out from other sites. Now if only some people would start releasing templates for IP.Content (another form of skinning in my opinion), that would be awesome.

[Matt]

Guys,

Thanks for all the feedback, it's very useful and we are listening. IP.Board 3.0 was a brand new framework which introduced a lot of new skinning tools (such as {parse tags}, etc). We used these new tools where possible when writing new code but some of the older refactored templates didn't take full advantage of them (hence why some dates are still 'hard coded'). As the product matures, we'll go through and update these.

Keep telling us what you want and we'll do our best to accommodate over the next few releases. We try not to make each upgrade destructive so we try and change as little templating as possible unless it's really required.

That said, we do have a few cool things up our sleeve that skinners will love.

[Lewis P]

So yes, skinners are definitely important, as they help admins to start standing out from other sites. Now if only some people would start releasing templates for IP.Content (another form of skinning in my opinion), that would be awesome.

Why? Just use Google for "Free HTML Templates" and there, you have an IP.Content skin.

That said, we do have a few cool things up our sleeve that skinners will love.

Sounds good! :P

[bfarber]

That's true, we (skinners) don't tend to ask for much... nor do we get asked our opinions very often - perhaps we should ;)

We tend to assume that anyone that has something to say just says it. :P We have a lot of customers to go out and single out customers to ask their opinions on stuff, which is why a feedback forum works well for us. Anyone that *does* have feedback to relay can do so easily. :)

Don't be afraid to speak up if you want to see something changed. We can't promise anything, but we also can't consider a request that's never been presented to us.

[RazorThemes]

Don't be afraid to speak up if you want to see something changed. We can't promise anything, but we also can't consider a request that's never been presented to us.

Whats the odds of having a free, all you can eat, customer's only buffet every Friday? I know Charles is the "caring and loving one" in the group and would be happy to foot the bill ;)

[Wolfie]

Whats the odds of having a free, all you can eat, customer's only buffet every Friday? I know Charles is the "caring and loving one" in the group and would be happy to foot the bill ;)

I'm in favor of that idea! :frantics:

[bfarber]

Whats the odds of having a free, all you can eat, customer's only buffet every Friday? I know Charles is the "caring and loving one" in the group and would be happy to foot the bill ;)

Charles? The caring and loving one?

:lol:

[Charles]

You rang?

[Amy T]

I thought Charles was the funny one.