Dreadknux

Am I correct to assume that the blue arrows here have designated CSS classes or ID's?

If that is true, then it is possible to style them so then you can have the transparent block below and above if you want. Same functionality and both UI's are possible.
All through the magic of CSS 😉

Yes, there is a clear formatting button, but more importantly the content is stored according to a predefined schema - this means that there will never be random styles or lines that are unexpected, even after pasting. Though you cannot have "whatever wherever however in the source", this becomes a big advantage for everyday users since the entire content state is achievable through the UI.

I tend to use the Source button these days simply to debug HTML that kind of goes wonky in custom CKEditor buttons I make. But if IPS adds an 'inline gallery' button in the new editor that allows me to insert groups of images in rows (the same way I can on a Wordpress blog), I won't really have a need to even do that.
I think there's merit to having more advanced functions in the editor that allows for adding custom CSS classes to headers etc so admins/power users can really customise their content, but that's going outside of the realm of "common user" stuff. Just something I think would be great to add as the new editor evolves.

I tend to use the Source button these days simply to debug HTML that kind of goes wonky in custom CKEditor buttons I make. But if IPS adds an 'inline gallery' button in the new editor that allows me to insert groups of images in rows (the same way I can on a Wordpress blog), I won't really have a need to even do that.
I think there's merit to having more advanced functions in the editor that allows for adding custom CSS classes to headers etc so admins/power users can really customise their content, but that's going outside of the realm of "common user" stuff. Just something I think would be great to add as the new editor evolves.

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

Whaaaaaat Matt F coming in with the clutch MVP post of the thread!? That's awesome news, thanks for sharing/teasing!
Respectfully, I do not think your suggestion would really solve anything and in fact would make UX worse. Having extra space above/below the box area that is clickable-to-enable-text-input but is otherwise redundant will be super confusing to users, and would make the post editor not WYSIWYG compliant. Users need to see that what they're typing in the editor (and especially how it is presented in the editor) will be 100% accurate to how the post will appear on publish.
I would recommend waiting for V5 to come out and trying out the icon. While every user's experience will of course be different and there will likely be room for improvement in the UI, in my view I really do not think any user (no matter their level of experience) will miss these two clear icons sitting in the box area:

If a user is so inexperienced that you think they will not know what those buttons do, I will imagine the first thing said user would do is experiment and click those buttons to see what function they served. And there, problem solved.
My only suggestion regarding this topic is that, perhaps the arrow buttons should be permanently visible on the box in the post editor (at present in the V5 alpha those blue icons only appear if you hover your mouse over the box - and that's a scenario where I do believe that inexperienced users may have difficulty, as they may not think to hover over the box in order to reveal a solution they're looking for).

I think it's worth waiting until you can use it. Then get feedback from your members. I'm sure it actually works better than you imagine and that it's quite intuitive.
If you have a reason to use source code beyond fixing CKEditor issues, please let us know and please be as specific as you can which will really help, for example "Embed other sites" is less helpful than "I have a separate website, and I want to bring blog articles into my posts at around 600px high with a scrollbar".

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

Whaaaaaat Matt F coming in with the clutch MVP post of the thread!? That's awesome news, thanks for sharing/teasing!
Respectfully, I do not think your suggestion would really solve anything and in fact would make UX worse. Having extra space above/below the box area that is clickable-to-enable-text-input but is otherwise redundant will be super confusing to users, and would make the post editor not WYSIWYG compliant. Users need to see that what they're typing in the editor (and especially how it is presented in the editor) will be 100% accurate to how the post will appear on publish.
I would recommend waiting for V5 to come out and trying out the icon. While every user's experience will of course be different and there will likely be room for improvement in the UI, in my view I really do not think any user (no matter their level of experience) will miss these two clear icons sitting in the box area:

If a user is so inexperienced that you think they will not know what those buttons do, I will imagine the first thing said user would do is experiment and click those buttons to see what function they served. And there, problem solved.
My only suggestion regarding this topic is that, perhaps the arrow buttons should be permanently visible on the box in the post editor (at present in the V5 alpha those blue icons only appear if you hover your mouse over the box - and that's a scenario where I do believe that inexperienced users may have difficulty, as they may not think to hover over the box in order to reveal a solution they're looking for).

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

It's really not, to be honest. Seriously, this weird "unmarked white space that exists but doesn't really unless you click it" idea is a nonsense - both in usability terms and in WYSIWYG standards. If your community members can't discern what a 'Title' field is, they're definitely not going to figure out whatever esoteric suggestion this is. 🙂
And I dare say that, if you know that your community mostly consists of people who are unable to operate forums, a small change to the post editor is really not going to move the needle for you one way or the other. I also don't know why you would decline to offer email support to people asking for help, but that is probably doing more harm to your cause than a blue arrow button ever could.
Agreed. It's a pretty bizarre argument; "these contextual buttons that add lines above and below a quote box are simply too complicated for the common user! What they really need is a Source button to click on so they can dig into the HTML code, scroll to the line they need on their tiny mobile screen and add extra p tags and div containers!" 😂

Whaaaaaat Matt F coming in with the clutch MVP post of the thread!? That's awesome news, thanks for sharing/teasing!
Respectfully, I do not think your suggestion would really solve anything and in fact would make UX worse. Having extra space above/below the box area that is clickable-to-enable-text-input but is otherwise redundant will be super confusing to users, and would make the post editor not WYSIWYG compliant. Users need to see that what they're typing in the editor (and especially how it is presented in the editor) will be 100% accurate to how the post will appear on publish.
I would recommend waiting for V5 to come out and trying out the icon. While every user's experience will of course be different and there will likely be room for improvement in the UI, in my view I really do not think any user (no matter their level of experience) will miss these two clear icons sitting in the box area:

If a user is so inexperienced that you think they will not know what those buttons do, I will imagine the first thing said user would do is experiment and click those buttons to see what function they served. And there, problem solved.
My only suggestion regarding this topic is that, perhaps the arrow buttons should be permanently visible on the box in the post editor (at present in the V5 alpha those blue icons only appear if you hover your mouse over the box - and that's a scenario where I do believe that inexperienced users may have difficulty, as they may not think to hover over the box in order to reveal a solution they're looking for).

Whaaaaaat Matt F coming in with the clutch MVP post of the thread!? That's awesome news, thanks for sharing/teasing!
Respectfully, I do not think your suggestion would really solve anything and in fact would make UX worse. Having extra space above/below the box area that is clickable-to-enable-text-input but is otherwise redundant will be super confusing to users, and would make the post editor not WYSIWYG compliant. Users need to see that what they're typing in the editor (and especially how it is presented in the editor) will be 100% accurate to how the post will appear on publish.
I would recommend waiting for V5 to come out and trying out the icon. While every user's experience will of course be different and there will likely be room for improvement in the UI, in my view I really do not think any user (no matter their level of experience) will miss these two clear icons sitting in the box area:

If a user is so inexperienced that you think they will not know what those buttons do, I will imagine the first thing said user would do is experiment and click those buttons to see what function they served. And there, problem solved.
My only suggestion regarding this topic is that, perhaps the arrow buttons should be permanently visible on the box in the post editor (at present in the V5 alpha those blue icons only appear if you hover your mouse over the box - and that's a scenario where I do believe that inexperienced users may have difficulty, as they may not think to hover over the box in order to reveal a solution they're looking for).

With v5, you can probably save a lot of hassle and just use the backticks to generate inline code. Either way, applications have a framework to add new editor functionality, including buttons.
  CleanShot 2024-05-21 at 10.29.11.mp4  
 

This is one of the more exciting features about IC5, and as a sort-of-power user the sticky toolbar and mobile considerations in particular are a godsend. Thanks for all your hard work, Matt!
I had a few questions about the new post editor;
1. Can we remove certain options from the post editor (for instance, I don't necessarily like the idea of my community's users being able to change the font size/style of their content, so being able to enable/disable certain toolbar buttons would be great for me)?
2. The boxes are great, but from a design perspective the box header area ("How to write JavaScript", for example) doesn't seem to stand out from the rest of the box content (and the padding seems a bit too much for my liking). Is there a chance of having a box header bgcolor implemented that's maybe a little darker/lighter than the box content background to make it pop (I can always use custom CSS to fix this myself but figured I'd ask if it was something that could be done out of the box)?
3. Will you be publishing a full FAQ/guide on what kind of markup code will be supported on this? One of the least desirable aspects of Invision V4 has been a lack of official documentation/glossaries regarding IPS template code and what is actually there for designers to use (making a custom theme has often been a matter of either accidentally finding out there is a 'native' CSS class for what I want a particular div to do, or creating new CSS classes myself and duplicating styles in ignorance), and it'd be a shame for me to ask end-users to guess what kind of markdown code works via trial and error. 😄
4. I like the idea that text colours change dynamically with light/dark theme - but is that only relating to the default IC5 theme, or will that also be the case for custom themes as well? I remember @Ehren's amazing walkthrough of the new theme editor a few months ago, and what seemed space-age to me was that changing a primary/secondary colour for a theme would also dynamically alter a container/button's text colour. Will post editor text colours work in the same way, or will I need to consider custom CSS classes to make a 'yellow' text colour readable on a similar-coloured post area background?
Thanks again!

We're discussing this internally still but there should be a way to restrict buttons by user and editor location in the final release
 
That would be managed by the theme's CSS. We ended up keeping the background color the same once because a slightly darker/lighter color tended to look off in at least a few box color and dark/light mode combinations
 
Probably not, but only because markdown code itself is not technically supported, rather we've included markdown style shortcuts. For example, if I pasted in "**some bold text**", it won't get converted to bold, it's only going to be converted after being typed out
 
Yes! It uses color-mix and other CSS tricks to consistently adapt to the different theme colors.