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Micropayments to funding content


Silnei L Andrade

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1 hour ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

The Reedit Gold only works on Reedit, it is not an asset whose ballast is the good content of various CMS platforms. Maybe such a blockchain is too big for Invision alone, ok!  All forum platforms are experiencing the same wear and tear, no?

This blockchain needs run outside the forum core as a plugin, this plugin can be developed for several platforms. If you use as a model what the guys at Simple Token are doing for example, that would be just like that. There is one main coin and the system will allow each website / forum to create its own coin.

Ethereum, for example, is not only a cryptocurrecy, it's a blockchain created to run Dapps, there are several decentralized applications running on the Ethereum block. That's more or less how they would work within each community separately.

How do you mine that "Invision Coin"?

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1 minute ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

All in this list with * in the Circulating Supply colunm is not mining:
https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

The Market Cap of all coins / Tokens is US$ 750 billions, Bitcoin now have a just 33% of the share and this year this can down more.

Ya, but you didn't answer my question. If its not with mining, how it is then?

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 Tokens and cryptocurrency market will be like a giant decentralized stock exchange. A token can serve as currency, as credit, or as a capitalization or share for a particular project.

The PoW (Proof-of-work) used in Bitcoin mining to prevent double expense and another problem is not the only way.   Look by the project CardanoHub for example.  Each project has on whitepaper how the coins will be distributed, how many will be offered at ICO, etc

As the coins will be distributed in the communities you want to know, is that it?

 In a project like this one, community owners would invest in a finite amount of coins that would be distributed and sell to users. The value of the sale and renewal of the software license could be returned as credit to the starting community, etc

For example, you buy US$ 100 from invision coin thar could create 2 million RevengeFNFCoins that would be sell and distributed in the registrations and other interactions that you determine in your new community.

The economy of the community would be determined by its size. Some communities may have in their internal economy 10,000 dollars of Invision coins, another 100,000 and so on.

Technically there would be only 2 coins in the ecosystem of this blockchain. The main one to Invision Coin that can be exchanged in the exchanges by another cryptocurrencies and dollar. The second coin that will be the internal currency of the community that each will baptize with the name that you want and could only be swapped by invision coin. 

So, the invision coin is a asset in the cryptomarket,  the second is a currency of the communities. 

Another use:

You create advertising spaces, advertisers buy the pay space in invision coin and receive your coin as credit for CPM or clicks. People can buy and sell something within their community and the payment can be in their coin. To ensure that no one takes damage in the negotiation, the value is placed in custody by the system and released as soon as the two parties claim that it is ok.

All of this today is only possible with expensive, centralized technologies that charge huge fees for each deal.

This type of solution is worth millions of dollars or even billions, maybe this is the explanation of why there is so much money involved in this market

 

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1 hour ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

As the coins will be distributed in the communities you want to know, is that it?

 In a project like this one, community owners would invest in a finite amount of coins that would be distributed and sell to users. The value of the sale and renewal of the software license could be returned as credit to the starting community, etc

For example, you buy US$ 100 from invision coin thar could create 2 million RevengeFNFCoins that would be sell and distributed in the registrations and other interactions that you determine in your new community.

Main problems here for the average communities. You need to buy the coins from Invision, meaning you need to invest money. Then you need to expect that your users want to buy the coins from you. Then you also need to expect that your users want to give money to other users that post good content. Too many expectations.

I can already tell you that in my community, something like that would never work.

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I wasn't being facetious when I mentioned Reddit Gold. It's worked very well for them. Blockchain cryptocurrency has this stigma right now due to the fact it's going through its investor speculation phase, but if ever a stable digital currency not prone to crazy volatility emerges, then really we're not talking about anything different from Reddit Gold in concept other than the tech behind the currency. Reddit Gold uses USD, which is a stable currency. Everyone knows that if they buy $50 worth of reddit gold, there is certain things they can get for that.

Following @Silnei L Andrade's description of what he thinks could work would be a forum software wide, it's really the same idea with the blockchain tech layered on to potentially permit cheaper micro-transactions based entirely on a currency specific to forum software.

The big upsides you are talking about is developing additional revenue sources from users using micro-transactions made in crypto to replace the shrinking adsense market. The current technical hurdle is that the transaction costs for a site doing thousands of micro-transactions is extremely high and essentially makes such a process cost-prohibitive. Reddit as a site solved it by developing their own form of currency that is pegged to value on one site only (reddit) and users only have to transact once to get a chunk of this currency they can use for various things. Practically, this isn't all that different from any of the thousands of store-specific currencies that have been used by physical goods retailers for years prior. You need a fairly massive userbase to make this work. 

Again, until volatility into cryprocurrency generally settles down for the long term, I don't think this idea has legs, but it could potentially make sense in the longer term. However, if I'm a user, I'm not going to convert fiat currency or some other cryptocurrency to invisioncoin to tip a user for a good post if there's the risk my $2 tip could be worth $600 due to a run up on the coin value because of speculators. I'd use USD and rely on existing rewards systems.

I'm also skeptical the overall forum market (even if this was a plugin that was used on every single IPS, xenforo, PHPbb, Vanilla, etc. install) is anywhere near big enough to support a specific coin, nor would there be any reason to use a specific coin vs a universally known and accepted cryptocurrency. Imagine a world where ethereum moved over to proof of stake and the speculators left the investment market and you had a fairly stable value for a relative decent period of time - why wouldn't we just use ether as our currency to achieve the same thing? You still haven't given a reason Invision themselves should develop a competing coin though, when they could simply allow users to use one or more cryptocurrencies to reward good content or tip a good post and let the site take a commission from it as part of the overall revenue stream.

It's an interesting topic, but I think like many things crypto, there is a lot of "me-too"-ism going on here where everyone and their grandma suddenly thinks they need a crypto whitepaper and the market hasn't figured out what the hell it's doing with this all yet.

 

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2 hours ago, RevengeFNF said:

Main problems here for the average communities. You need to buy the coins from Invision, meaning you need to invest money. Then you need to expect that your users want to buy the coins from you. Then you also need to expect that your users want to give money to other users that post good content. Too many expectations.

I can already tell you that in my community, something like that would never work.

Being a plugin nobody will force you to install in your community

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4 hours ago, Morgin said:

I wasn't being facetious when I mentioned Reddit Gold. It's worked very well for them. Blockchain cryptocurrency has this stigma right now due to the fact it's going through its investor speculation phase, but if ever a stable digital currency not prone to crazy volatility emerges, then really we're not talking about anything different from Reddit Gold in concept other than the tech behind the currency. Reddit Gold uses USD, which is a stable currency. Everyone knows that if they buy $50 worth of reddit gold, there is certain things they can get for that.

It is easier to create a stable currency in Blockchain than you expect from the Fed that prints coins as they need them. You can simply set a fixed value, but I do not know if that is the best way. The stableness of the value of the coin will depend on who will hold it, ie the admins and users would have a large slice of these coins, it does not make sense to dump it to play the value downhill.

Everything that is new creates resistance. In 2000 to create content for my site, I traveled to Brazil for 3 years, I was offering an ad spaces in a online cheap hotel guide that we created to finance the trip.The hotels did not have web pages yet, many hotels profited greatly from this guide in the following years, but some owners asked me why someone would use the internet to contact the hotel instead of using the telephone.

Blockchain is one of those new technology innovations that many find dispensable, who twist their noses at being in the media every day. Meanwhile billionaires make raining money into these projects. Why?  We are worried about spending $ 100 in our communities. The world is changing and the forums will need change too or disappear completely in the coming years. We have to choose what to do.

2 hours ago, RevengeFNF said:

How many forums have the power like Reddit have to explore that?

I believe that thousands of new communities could be created with this new technology. Money coming in and new devs being contracted for the project, it would make a leap of quality. People would be able to choose between a system with these characteristics or keep working for free or even paying to work for Mark Zuckerberg in Facebook groups for example.

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4 hours ago, Morgin said:

I'm also skeptical the overall forum market (even if this was a plugin that was used on every single IPS, xenforo, PHPbb, Vanilla, etc. install) is anywhere near big enough to support a specific coin, nor would there be any reason to use a specific coin vs a universally known and accepted cryptocurrency. Imagine a world where ethereum moved over to proof of stake and the speculators left the investment market and you had a fairly stable value for a relative decent period of time - why wouldn't we just use ether as our currency to achieve the same thing? You still haven't given a reason Invision themselves should develop a competing coin though, when they could simply allow users to use one or more cryptocurrencies to reward good content or tip a good post and let the site take a commission from it as part of the overall revenue stream.

What is happening with Bitcoin is now the problem of scalability and high costs. If everything hangs on the Ethereum, it will happen soon enough. Ethereum was going to change its protocol to POS and did not do it and made part of the team to create other projects, from that was born the Ethereum Classic and CardanoHub. These two projects are the co-creators of ethereum who have decided to create another path.

Almost all good blockchain projects are open source, there is no need to create anything from scratch, just make a fork of some project scalable, secure and fast and adapt to that need. Is easy? No! If it were easy it would have no value. It's a good challenge to innovate!

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8 hours ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

I believe that thousands of new communities could be created with this new technology. Money coming in and new devs being contracted for the project, it would make a leap of quality. People would be able to choose between a system with these characteristics or keep working for free or even paying to work for Mark Zuckerberg in Facebook groups for example.

I don't believe there are thousands of communities with users willing to give money for good content.

Check this example:

 

This topic is one of the best tutorials in this forum, one of the best quality content here and its a pinned topic... Only have 33 likes that are free... 
What i mean is, even with likes that anyone can give, it only has 33, do you think anyone would give coins?

For your system to work, it needs to be something normal, people giving coins all the time.

Im not saying your system will not work, but you need very big forums to have a chance, and i don't believe there are thousands of forums in that situation.

It works with Reddit with their Gold system because that have Millions of users, something we can't even think of touch.

PS: I can give you an example of a type of forum that would work. An Adult Content Forum. Someone post an adult picture, and people gives money to receive more pictures. But adult sites is completely different from most sites.

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Today big in the breaking news: Kodak company stocks rising +117% in the exchange markets due to implementing new blockchain technology. It states this is due to their futuristic ideas, following the blockchain hype with their own proprietary app implementation and alluring strong investors.

I have to admit:

  • I don't think that all forum users in every community will start using IPS coins and we already have points systems to measure finegrained awards per community. Maybe a nice compromise would be to fusion points systems and blockchain currencies somehow and create custom stock exchange centers
  • I'm unsure how transaction costs for changing real money -> virtual currencies (and reverse) will affect the usage. They might be too high for a profitable system

I can understand all the pros and contras in this topic, but I believe that fresh and innovative ideas will rule the future. They are the best way to create exorbitant plugins with high potential and stand out in the mass of competitors. So why not going on risk and try implementing some basic approximations to using own currencies that are unforgeable and tradeable. I like this idea, but I'm not sure about the implementation yet.

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7 hours ago, RevengeFNF said:

I don't believe there are thousands of communities with users willing to give money for good content.

In this moment have a thousands of Facebook Groups (Communities) with users giving your time and your money to the Mark Zuckerberg because in some years ago Facebook was hype.  The new hype for 2018 and 2019 is the blockchain and the descentralization. 

I'm not a code developer, i'm just a webmaster with 20 years of experience in communities admin. i guess that this is the moment to Mark and your team make a a good Whitepaper to fund some millions to give another step in the IPB history.  With this money it's possible make a complete new app with a lot of new tools and functions, and this include this coin too.

I don't believe that only this coin plugin will make all actual commnuties grown up again.  I believe this is a opportuny to funding money to contract a some young developers for make a next steep of forum history, including this coin and this system to micropayments.

The IPB need be a native mobile app with notifications to compete with the WhatApp and Telegram Groups. Need give great support and new tools for tags and abandon that system of categories inherited from Yahoo's time internet.

Need to invest a lot more in the user profile system as people were seduced by their mirrors with the help of Mark Zuckerberg and everything in the communities now is about the self. That's why content creation needs to focus more on the individual and try to keep something for collective creation as are the topics. But the focus on the individual is a path of no return.

The photo album app timeline should follow the Instagram pattern, and allow users to send photos taken on their smartphones

The club system needs to be seriously thought out to compete with the WhatApp and Telegram groups. 

All this needs a lot of money and time to develop and this is the time to take a slice of the billions that are raining in Blockchain's garden

 

 

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A lot of what you've detailed is more easily achieved through sale of a service, managed by your Invision community, and user permissions in the respective application for which service you're selling... 

Add a permission to enable / disable hot-linking, already a permission to expand storage capabilities... You get the idea.  

Why introduce micro-transactions? Look at the likes of Bungie (Destiny 2) and EA (Battlefront 2) where they are being publicly FLOGGED over their implementation of micro-transactions.  In the case of EA, they disabled their micro-transaction system due to the beating and lost a LARGE chunk of their player base.  Bungie is still in the hot seat and needs to turn things around quickly.

Monetization most certainly is a goal for online communities.  Without it how would we survive?  But doing so must be done with consistency and care.  In the current atmosphere, that's better achieved offering memberships and/or services rather than coming up with an new form of currency that will undoubtedly undergo scrutiny, potentially be hacked,  administrators be called out for using it, and could potentially damage the Invision brand if IPS is involved in its construction and deployment. 

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2 hours ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

In this moment have a thousands of Facebook Groups (Communities) with users giving your time and your money to the Mark Zuckerberg because in some years ago Facebook was hype.  The new hype for 2018 and 2019 is the blockchain and the descentralization. 

I'm not a code developer, i'm just a webmaster with 20 years of experience in communities admin. i guess that this is the moment to Mark and your team make a a good Whitepaper to fund some millions to give another step in the IPB history.  With this money it's possible make a complete new app with a lot of new tools and functions, and this include this coin too.

I don't believe that only this coin plugin will make all actual commnuties grown up again.  I believe this is a opportuny to funding money to contract a some young developers for make a next steep of forum history, including this coin and this system to micropayments.

The IPB need be a native mobile app with notifications to compete with the WhatApp and Telegram Groups. Need give great support and new tools for tags and abandon that system of categories inherited from Yahoo's time internet.

Need to invest a lot more in the user profile system as people were seduced by their mirrors with the help of Mark Zuckerberg and everything in the communities now is about the self. That's why content creation needs to focus more on the individual and try to keep something for collective creation as are the topics. But the focus on the individual is a path of no return.

The photo album app timeline should follow the Instagram pattern, and allow users to send photos taken on their smartphones

The club system needs to be seriously thought out to compete with the WhatApp and Telegram groups. 

All this needs a lot of money and time to develop and this is the time to take a slice of the billions that are raining in Blockchain's garden

 

 

Look, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but this has hit old man ranting at clouds levels. You continue to confuse or purposely hand wave over the volatility and run up of various currency market caps with somehow a new Invision coin being an investment in Invision. It’s not. You can’t create investment value out of thin air. (Edit: ok, not entirely true. Sometimes this happens. It’s called a bubble, and they always pop.)

Your argument is boiling down to “lots of people are dumping a lot of money into the risky volatile world of cryptocurrency. Invision needs to compete with other communication platforms that are stealing its users. Ergo, Invision should gamble on tricking enough people into investing in its coin to fund new development of new features and hope they don’t lose all reputational value when the inevitable bubble bursts and their users who bought in are left holding worthless garbage”.

I say worthless garbage, because there is nothing inherently valuable about forum communities or forum software that would justify investment in a forum specific crypto coin, and the coin itself would only be useful in a forum setting for micro transactions if it was super stable which is exactly the opposite of what you want if you want it to be a massive revenue generator. Translated to normal market speak, it’s like asking Invision to start issuing shares to raise capital with the expectation purchasers of those shares would use them to purchase and reward via microtransactions in the forum system. Why would anyone do that? You buy shares from an equity raise because you believe they will increase in value and generate investment income, not because you want to use them as form of stable currency.

If you think there is value in a stable cryptocurrency as a means to entice users to complete microtransactions, then a) that’s not going to lead to a huge equity dump into Invision, and b) the foundational assumptions of the system still needs to be true, which is that users will transfer actual currency in exchange for good info/content/better forum features/more pm storage/whatever. The evidence many of us have encountered is that most users do not want to spend any money to access or reward content, full stop. It works at reddit because they have so many millions of users that the incredibly small percentage who will buy and give out reddit gold is a high enough threshold to make the initial investment in the feature worthwhile. I can’t think of a single Invision forum with millions of active users (in fact, if you added up every single Invision, xenforo, vanilla, discourse, etc. forum, you still likely wouldn’t have the active userbase of reddit). 

I don’t disagree that lack of a native mobile experience is hurting most of our communities, but that’s not going to be solved by speculating in cryptocurrency.

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1 hour ago, Morgin said:

I don’t disagree that lack of a native mobile experience is hurting most of our communities, but that’s not going to be solved by speculating in cryptocurrency

Code development costs a lot of money and what you call speculation can be called investment in a new product. If the team does not deliver a good product with the money that was invested, investors lose, if the product is good, they make lots of money. This is how things work. Yes, there are risks. Everything in life is like this.

The comments on the crypto market I hear here look a lot like what the media says all the time. So far no one commented anything technical about the projects cited in the first post. The word most commonly cited here is "bubble", which is what the media say 24 hours a day. There are more than 2,000 projects being created with this technology with 700 billion invested. Anyone who spends high money with this does serious risk analysis. Make technical analysis. Some of this project will be tech giants in the next few years, others go to waste because they either were scams or they did not solve anyone's problem.

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12 minutes ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

Anyone who spends high money with this does serious risk analysis. Make technical analysis.

So why not just give your money directly to Lindy? Tell him to do more awesome things? Instead of waisting resources on a pretend coin that could be destroyed in a SQL accident or mishap since earlier you were saying it would be in a database? 

If you're wanting guest/member incentives/entitlements XCoin is not the way to go.

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A similar blockchain project like this already exists and has created a new social network called steemit. It has been working for 1 year and has no advertising, who pays the content are the users through the currency of the community that is also sold in the exchanges. The project that created this platform has 1 billion and 300 million market cap. They started from scratch. If it were a dot com company it would be called Unicorn as the avatar of the friend above, but some say it's bubble. OK!

The above friend has a games forum. One of the projects cited above is Enjin Coin. Enjin is a forum platform for gamers and raised $ 230 million with that currency that will be used in this community.

Days ago Matt posted a news about a new function of 4.3 and has only 12 reactions. It seems to me that the community needs encouragement, but by the way it is not too open for the new. We already have a script ready here, you can see what will be the end of the movie.

23 minutes ago, MADMAN32395 said:

Instead of waisting resources on a pretend coin that could be destroyed in a SQL accident or mishap since earlier you were saying it would be in a database? 

What are you talking about?

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16 minutes ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

Matt posted a news about a new function of 4.3 and has only 12 reactions. It seems to me that the community needs encouragement, but by the way it is not too open for the new.

For news I usually get this information from the emails they send out or directly through the ACP. I'm sure majority do this. Also this is a business , most users probably don't visit unless SHTF or something else.

1 minute ago, Silnei L Andrade said:

It seems to me these guys are trying something new. I hope they succeed!

https://www.enjin.com/supporters

I really wouldn't compare enjin to ips... Similar but way different services. Idk if you have looked deeper but they are more of a pay to temp unlock core features, compared to ips is just renew and keep using. So enjin kinda needs gimmicks to survive.  (Even more with the call of duty-ers and the minecrafters.)

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Just now, Silnei L Andrade said:

Yes, I remember this tool, good times! Today 99% of what I get from this new technology is spam!

Sounds like you need a better spam protection. 

And the group I'm part of also gets push notifications as well for news and updates. 

Can't throw money at your guests to force them to interact and engage... That's not how things work.

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