SJ77 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I just upgraded to IP4 from 3.4.7During the upgrade it asked me if I wanted to convert friends to followers. Like a dummy I chose no because I forgot there are no friends at all now. Is it too late to change my mind and do it? Somewhere in the ACP?
esquire Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I just upgraded to IP4 from 3.4.7During the upgrade it asked me if I wanted to convert friends to followers. Like a dummy I chose no because I forgot there are no friends at all now. Is it too late to change my mind and do it? Somewhere in the ACP?Hmmm... Login requires a refresh to reply or something weird just happened.... anyway. Are you saying that if you don't choose to switch "friends" to "followers" that the result is that an upgrade just drops those relationships entirely? That doesn't seem like a good result, especially if the consequences of such an action aren't made clear. It also might be a good idea to have a info? with link that opens up a pop up to explain just how radical a change friends to followers is as well as the consequences of not choosing to do so. Without it, there will probably be countless surprises and messages here from those who don't visit the forums with any frequency.
Woodsman Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 It still does it anyway all friends will be converted to followers regardless.
Adriano Faria Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 According to IPS, if you chose not to update FRIENDS -> FOLLOWERS during the upgrade, FRIENDS will be removed: http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/405010-followers-notification-x-real-followed-content-notification/?do=findComment&comment=2513141
esquire Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 According to IPS, if you chose not to update FRIENDS -> FOLLOWERS during the upgrade, FRIENDS will be removed: http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/405010-followers-notification-x-real-followed-content-notification/?do=findComment&comment=2513141Then I think it's doubly important not to have that happen without a warning and an info link. As a site owner, I would even prefer to preserve the relationships just in case there is a plugin created that will restore this very useful functionality. If the table is removed then plugins will be useless for existing sites and only going forward with a blank slate. I haven't looked at the IPB 3 schema regarding how friends data is kept and wonder about this.
SJ77 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 @esquire Yeah, I think it drops the relationship all together. Although, I can't be completely sure because so far I can't even see profiles. I think I need to wait until the initial background tasks run. But I am concerned that I have lost the relationships all together. Is it too late to run a script to rejoin the friends table to the followers table?
Misi Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 But I am concerned that I have lost the relationships all together. Is it too late to run a script to rejoin the friends table to the followers table?Do you have a fresh backup? It would be worth to drop the current upgrade and do a fresh one.
SJ77 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 Do you have a fresh backup? It would be worth to drop the current upgrade and do a fresh one.I thought about that but surely there is an easier way. Must be some sql that could populate the followers table correctly.
Adriano Faria Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I thought about that but surely there is an easier way. Must be some sql that could populate the followers table correctly.Not exacly an SQL Query. The conversion script is on file applications\core\setup\upg_100003\upgrade.php, line ~170.And confirming what I told above: if you didn't convert, they drop friends table: /* Did we skip? */ if ( $_SESSION['upgrade_options']['core']['100003']['follow_options'] == 'no_convert' ) { \IPS\Db::i()->dropTable( 'profile_friends' ); return true; }
Adriano Faria Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Not exacly an SQL Query. The conversion script is on file applications\core\setup\upg_100003\upgrade.php, line ~170.Btw, posted this to show you that you can put the function on a separated PHP file and run it again, once you restore the profile_friends table.
opentype Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 As a site owner, I would even prefer to preserve the relationships just in case there is a plugin created that will restore this very useful functionality. But such a request could be made for basically anything and then you would basically ask to keep a complete copy of the old installation within the current MySQL database. For example: Media Tags are also removed and so someone could ask to keep old posts in case someone creates a Media Tag plugin which restores the old functionality. So, no, I don’t agree the upgrade should keep unused content “just in case”. I agree however that during upgrade there should be clear statements about what happens when you make certain choices.
esquire Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 But such a request could be made for basically anything and then you would basically ask to keep a complete copy of the old installation within the current MySQL database. For example: Media Tags are also removed and so someone could ask to keep old posts in case someone creates a Media Tag plugin which restores the old functionality. So, no, I don’t agree the upgrade should keep unused content “just in case”. I agree however that during upgrade there should be clear statements about what happens when you make certain choices. No one is saying that. It can be to choose (a) convert; (b) convert but store legacy relationships; (c) convert and lose the legacy relationships. Keeping an entire copy of the old installation is extremely inefficient. And trying to restore Friend functionality with an old backup of your site and another IPS 4 database is unwieldy and potentially unusable.Quite frankly, the Friends functionality is very different issue than the media tag plugin. Entire communities have been built on the premise of Friends relationships, which is integral to the nature of the way many social communities operate. I wish this functionality hadn't been replaced by what is now a mere notification/stalker mechanism. I don't know what is feasible and am hoping that options would be there if this could be restored. I know I'd be interested and would pay for such functionality.
opentype Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 No one is saying that.Sure you do. You just repeated it: (b) convert but store legacy relationships;You want data which the new system doesn’t support in any way to be kept nevertheless. Choosing friendship data over any other kind of data is an arbitrary choice based on personal preference and your specific community. Quite frankly, the Friends functionality is very different issue than the media tag plugin.Nope. Which functionality is more important depends entirely on the specific community. And it was just an example anyway. But anyway. I have no interest to turn this into a big argument. I just offered my two cents. And my opinion is: it’s not a useful part of an upgrade routine to offer all sorts of “save data the admin might re-use with a potential plugin which does not even exist yet” options.
esquire Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Sure you do. You just repeated it:You want data which the new system doesn’t support in any way to be kept nevertheless. Choosing friendship data over any other kind of data is an arbitrary choice based on personal preference and your specific community. Nope. Which functionality is more important depends entirely on the specific community. And it was just an example anyway. But anyway. I have no interest to turn this into a big argument. I just offered my two cents. And my opinion is: it’s not a useful part of an upgrade routine to offer all sorts of “save data the admin might re-use with a potential plugin which does not even exist yet” options. I don't know how you're breaking up the quote box since I don't see a source tag or anything else that makes it simple to respond to points.I agree with you that Friends is determined by (a) the needs of the type of community; and/or (b) the personal preference of the community admin. Without talking about the wisdom of a decision to remove functionality that is the essence of communities, I don't understand why there is an objection to an option that gives IPB 3 communities (and those looking to convert to IPS such as vBulletin) to maintain the relationship should such functionality be restored. The options at present are (a) stay on IPB 3; (b) create a plugin for IPS 4; or (c) convert your IPB 3 site to another product that supports the relationship. And since it doesn't affect you, why object to an option to maintain the relationships?
Adriano Faria Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know how you're breaking up the quote box since I don't see a source tag or anything else that makes it simple to respond to points. Click on QUOTE (same post) thousand times and then leave only the text you want in each quote.
esquire Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Click on QUOTE (same post) thousand times and then leave only the text you want in each quote. ROFLMAO. Yeah, I guess that's another way of doing it although I'm so used to having a "source" button in the interface to deal with any type of formatting issues. That's conspicuously absent here. I'm also used to the quote button working once to suppress multiple quotes from appearing. OK, that will take an adjustment.
opentype Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know how you're breaking up the quote boxYou hit return in an empty line of the quote (and create it first if it doesn’t exist). And since it doesn't affect you, why object to an option to maintain the relationships?I explained why.
SJ77 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 Truth is, I made the choice to not convert friends to followers because I am hoping that eventually IPB will officially bring back friends and allow us to restore the relationships from back ups. Then I came to my senses and now, I think I made the wrong choice. While I REALLY wish we had friends back, and will continue to hope for it. I don't want to lose all the relationships my users have built up since 2009. 30 THOUSAND friendships are a sad thing to lose.
esquire Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Truth is, I made the choice to not convert friends to followers because I am hoping that eventually IPB will officially bring back friends and allow us to restore the relationships from back ups. Then I came to my senses and now, I think I made the wrong choice. While I REALLY wish we had friends back, and will continue to hope for it. I don't want to lose all the relationships my users have built up since 2009. 30 THOUSAND friendships are a sad thing to lose. Unfortunately this is one feature that I believe will never be brought back. From what I understand, IPS deliberately took the approach away from Friends relationships based upon a certain set of assumptions. At this stage it's probably not likely to change. I'm looking at whether it is at all feasible to create plugin with IPS 4. I'm of the opinion that a suite of applications makes much better use of friends relationships versus forum-only sites, especially in the niches for which I originally planned to use IPS 4. But the plugin will need to require double the work. First there needs to be a way to save all the existing relationships into a table that can later be used to reconnect them (do member IDs change with an upgrade?) Then there is the question of whether this can be reasonably implemented (including a uniform permissions set for modules) into IPS4 in some coherent fashion. And then there is the investment to reinvent this. We'll see. If you've got a community that has 30,000 members using the friends feature, you may want to consider whether it makes sense to upgrade to IPS4 or at least hold off for a while until it becomes clear whether or not someone might create a plugin. Perhaps it is a good idea to consider whether your community considers them important before later surprises. Good luck and kudos to you for building such a popular site.
Woodsman Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I'm still looking for where to disable followers all together. To follow content is one thing worth keeping, but to have followers over Friends is a waste of real estate.
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