Make Your Own Points System!

[Mat Barrie]

And you're completely ignoring the point again. I know the posters on this forum do not represent the majority of users of the software, but in this thread alone you already have more people with a resounding "NO" than people who think it's a good idea.

Something that bloats functionality and usage requirements is best left to modifications, and that includes this. Even in communities like this software is designed for, your much vaunted "points system" is a completely useless feature for most.

The developers are already doing what they can to make it easier for people to design their own features like this with the upcoming API/Hook structure. I can honestly tell you, I do not believe that your "points system" will ever be in vBulletin or phpBB.

The majority of people I know that use IPB use it because it is lacking most of the bloat in vB or phpBB (no offense to either forum, their respective user base tend to be different, and what is perceived as bloat to one is mandatory feature to another) - and IPB 2.2 has already been called "Bloatware" by some of it's more dedicated users (including the person who designed the default skin for IPB!)

In closing, leave it as a modification. It is NOT a worthwhile addition.

[Mat Barrie]

No offense to IPB, but if you take a look at vB, it is very popular and its forums have more people. Its a feature. It can be disabled. IPB is not all about businesses, but there are other users as well. It does not waste any database space if you dont use it. There are features in IPB that you probably dont take advantage of.

Think about users on IP Gallery and IP Blog. Just because you and businesses won't use it, it doesn't mean that it is not useful. Points system would shine greatly on IP Gallery. Any and all mods for a points system are all 3rd party and unsupported by IPB, thus it restricts the great opportunity of more integration with their other products. If you read my post in the IP Gallery section, you can see how useful it can be.

You're making a gross generalisation. Allow me to address some of your misconceptions.

"It does not waste any database space if you don't use it"
Incorrect. Columns use space whether they are filled, or not. Bit fields always use 1 bit, int/tinyint/bigint fields always use the maximum integer space. Varchars do not, but your points system would not use these anyway. Extra template bits would be required. More admin settings would need to be created. Use it or not, it's chewing up more space.

"Think about users on IP Gallery and IP Blog"
For a start, I use IP Blog. I don't see how this would benefit it in the slightest. Secondary to that, IP Blog and IP Gallery users are not in the majority of IP Board users to my knowledge - I don't have access to their sales figures, which brings me to my next point...

"No offense to IPB, but if you take a look at vB, it is very popular and its forums have more people"
I don't see how you can make this statement. Invision Power's sales figures are not public knowledge, nor are Jelsoft's. Unless you somehow work for both companies (which would, in such a case, violate your employment agreement with both companies), this statement has about as much integrity as "The moon is made of cheese".

As I said in the IPB 2.2 Beta Feedback forum, this sort of thing is better left to a mod. IPB2 is already a larger download than vB3, none of us wanting it bloating to 10MB of download. I'd stop using it in a heartbeat, if it came to that - and I assume others would too. It took me an hour to install the 2.2 version, because the ionCube version WAS a 10MB (compressed!) upload. IPB 2.2 is already being called bloatware by some of its oldest users, including the person who designed the skin used by default by the IPB software.

IPS is already doing all it can to facilitate minority modifications like this by implementing the much vaunted API and Hooks system, similar to vB. You could (once this is done) very easily facilitate the creation of a component that could do everything you want it to and more. But please (addressed at IPS) keep bloatware features like this out of our core software.

[Danny Tipple]

Seams like a pretty rubbish idea to me. The idea that you force people to make replies etc just so they can view images etc? Seams like an obvious spam trap.

[sychn]

And you're completely ignoring the point again. I know the posters on this forum do not represent the majority of users of the software, but in this thread alone you already have more people with a resounding "NO" than people who think it's a good idea.

Something that bloats functionality and usage requirements is best left to modifications, and that includes this. Even in communities like this software is designed for, your much vaunted "points system" is a completely useless feature for most.

The developers are already doing what they can to make it easier for people to design their own features like this with the upcoming API/Hook structure. I can honestly tell you, I do not believe that your "points system" will ever be in vBulletin or phpBB.

The majority of people I know that use IPB use it because it is lacking most of the bloat in vB or phpBB (no offense to either forum, their respective user base tend to be different, and what is perceived as bloat to one is mandatory feature to another) - and IPB 2.2 has already been called "Bloatware" by some of it's more dedicated users (including the person who designed the default skin for IPB!)

In closing, leave it as a modification. It is NOT a worthwhile addition.

'leave it as a modification' will makes it 'a worthwhile addition.'

So, points system can not be writen by a 3rd party.

Comparing Windows and Dos, Windows added a lot of 'useless' 'bloat' thing;

Comparing Dos and ENIAC, ENIAC are swithes;

Comparing ENIAC with abacus, abacus can training your fingers and your brains;

Comparing abacus and strings with knot, strings with knots can do a lot of non-'bloat' things like: tying things, rope skipping, climb and hang someone.

The advancement of human civilization never stops.

I believe someday IPS official will add points system to their products.

[Mat Barrie]

'leave it as a modification' will makes it 'a worthwhile addition.'

So, points system can not be writen by a 3rd party.

There are already "points systems" written by Third Parties, and it should stay that way. It is not a worthwhile addition to the core software. This release has already gained the bloatware tag from many people for the Profile Portal. Adding your much vaunted "Points System" would gain it the "Not Worth It" tag. Development time is better spent on features that benefit the majority of users, not pointless (no pun intended) functionality like this suggestion.

[sychn]

There are already "points systems" written by Third Parties, and it should stay that way. It is not a worthwhile addition to the core software. This release has already gained the bloatware tag from many people for the Profile Portal. Adding your much vaunted "Points System" would gain it the "Not Worth It" tag. Development time is better spent on features that benefit the majority of users, not pointless (no pun intended) functionality like this suggestion.

I dare not use a 3rd party points system, a 3rd party points system means 'limited', 'risky' and 'non-standard'.

[Mat Barrie]

I dare not use a 3rd party points system, a 3rd party points system means 'limited', 'risky' and 'non-standard'.

Hardly. Crystal Reports isn't standard with .NET, it's written by a third party, and people use that. Are you saying just because a particular system wasn't written by the initial author of the software, you should not use it? I hate to say it, but with quite a lot of software, new features are "acquired" from third parties.

[sychn]

Hardly. Crystal Reports isn't standard with .NET, it's written by a third party, and people use that. Are you saying just because a particular system wasn't written by the initial author of the software, you should not use it? I hate to say it, but with quite a lot of software, new features are "acquired" from third parties.

Okay, I copied the content I posted above, you tell me what I shoud do in these conditions:

not good for the future. if points system was made as a mod by a 3rd party, so if some other ppl want to write a component which need points system support, he must use the one made by another 3rd party user. Besides this, if the points system made by a 3rd party, when IPB has a big upgrade, all components which use the 3rd points system must hibernate until the 3rd party upgrade.

If A writes a points sytem, and B thinks it was not good for his component, so B writes another one; C doesn't like the points system writen by A and B, so C wrote the 3rd one. Which one you use?

[Mat Barrie]

Okay, I copy the content I posted above, you tell me what I shoud do in these conditions:

If A writes a points sytem, and B thinks it was not good for his component, so B writes another one; C doesn't like the points system writen by A and B, so C wrote the 3rd one.

Well, when Microsoft alters .NET and breaks Crystal Reports, people have to wait for Business Objects to fix it, and they do so happily. That is just because the .NET developer community understands that standardisation on third party additions is the way to go when the core product developer will not add a feature. That's not Microsoft's problem if people don't want to use the standardised Third Party products, that's the community's. Same situation here. It's not IPS's problem if your favourite mod developer doesn't want to use the already created points system, that's your developer's problem. It does not mean IPS should add a minority feature to the codebase to appease you.

[sychn]

Well, when Microsoft alters .NET and breaks Crystal Reports, people have to wait for Business Objects to fix it, and they do so happily. That is just because the .NET developer community understands that standardisation on third party additions is the way to go when the core product developer will not add a feature. That's not Microsoft's problem if people don't want to use the standardised Third Party products, that's the community's. Same situation here. It's not IPS's problem if your favourite mod developer doesn't want to use the already created points system, that's your developer's problem. It does not mean IPS should add a minority feature to the codebase to appease you.

When MS let the 3rd party to write group policy for windows, you can use this sample.

Unfortunatly, MS never let others touch it.

Points system is a policy system of IPB, the 3rd party can never make it as a real points system, unless IPS allowed them. Do you think IPS will let it happen?

No, man.

So, I believe points system will be integrated into IPS software officially some day.

Edit: You live in Auckland, I live in Beijing. Now it's 2:30 here. I persevered in keeping awake to show my opinion is because I believe what I believed. I must sleep now, c u tomorrow.

[Mat Barrie]

When MS let the 3rd party to write group policy for windows, you can use this sample.

Unfortunatly, MS never let others touch it.

Points system is a policy system of IPB, the 3rd party can never make it as a real points system, unless IPS allowed them. Do you think IPS will let it happen?

No, man.

So, I believe points system will be integrated into IPS software, officially.

Edit: You live in Auckland, I live in Beijing. Now it's 2:30 here. I persevered in keeping awake to show my opinion is because I believe what I believe. I must sleep now, c u tomorrow.

Good night, enjoy your sleep. I appreciate that neither of us has not denigrated into becoming insulting. It is refreshing to have a debate without tempers flying :)

I'm not certain what you mean by Microsoft never letting others touch group policy. Indeed, it is as extendable as it's predecessor, the NT System Policy Editor (and logon scripts. Ah, the bad old days!) - in fact it's extendable in the same way, just plug in and go.

I know you commented that it (Points System) cannot be written by a third party, this isn't actually the case in the future. Future versions are slated to include a new API/hooks system that will allow any person to write a system (points or otherwise) that can interrupt, change and even block default board functionality before it can happen, similar to vBulletin. Although, vBulletin's isn't perfect, and they've been at it longer than IPS have, so we can be assured that there will be quite the shortfalls in it. I would rather such an API/hooks system be built to be as flexible as possible and allow people to make such systems as good and powerful as they can, then writing the third party's functionality into the core system.

[neen]

It seems a good solution to this would really be XMod...

Not only does it have it's own points system, it's entirely compatible with any other points system that has been made.

Not only that, but the point system it comes with solves the problem of having to edit files.

[theclub]

And you're completely ignoring the point again. I know the posters on this forum do not represent the majority of users of the software, but in this thread alone you already have more people with a resounding "NO" than people who think it's a good idea.

Where did you learn to count? Eight people said they would like it, and eight said they didn't want it, four said they wouldn't use it.

Is that your idea of a resounding no?

You also call it bloatware .. my points system is five small file edits, three files and a template bit, hardly bloatware. The ridiculous new profile setup is bloatware, ratings, comments and the rest.

:)

[DavoteK]

Lot of closeminded people in here, with regards to what a lot of Invision users deem a worthwhile and community engaging modification.

Personally, I use the Perfect Points Mod, and it is an excellent feature. I would love for that or something similar to be integrated into Invision as default.

I dread getting that notice of an upgraded version of the forum being released, because most of the time it means re-installing these things over and over and over again.
Tedious and boring.

I think if the points system was made a default (toggle-able) feature in the forum software, it would mean that the extentions created that use a points system, whatever it is, would work to a standard. Some mods need certain edits depending on your points system, some mods are not compatible with the points system, others, you don't know what code to put in.

So, a default system that everyone works with, means all these excellent mod creators would have a standard to work to, making life easier for us board owners that do use it, and trust me, there are a shedload of us out there, and most don't view this forum except for when they wanna get the updates and so on.

[Mat Barrie]

Where did you learn to count? Eight people said they would like it, and eight said they didn't want it, four said they wouldn't use it.

Is that your idea of a resounding no?

You also call it bloatware .. my points system is five small file edits, three files and a template bit, hardly bloatware. The ridiculous new profile setup is bloatware, ratings, comments and the rest.

:)

Stay off the attacks. Noone else here feels the need to use attacks to prove their point, don't start.

The new profile setup is rather... bloated. A lot of people have said that. I like it for the novelty value, but hey I can disable it. It doesn't increase the size of the forum system by double, or increase the processing time on pretty much every action like a points system that intervenes at nearly every action does (double is hyperbole. Don't go there).

I noticed you say you have a points system. It's five small edits, three files and a template bit. That's good - you actually use it. Now, for those that wont use it, it's five edits, three files and a template bit more than they need. Sure, you can disable it, but it still hits performance.

You can create it as a component for IPB 3.0. Those that want to use it, can install it and watch it go. But keep it off the forum's developers plate, it's a waste of developer time better spent on core features - of which a points system is not one.

[DavoteK]

it's a waste of developer time better spent on core features - of which a points system is not one.

In your opinion, yes. I think that about a number of other features that are packaged with the board, but don't go on a mad anti-rant.

If its disabled, its hardly gonna effect the way the board runs, oh no, you'll have a couple of extra KB of diskspace taken up. Personally, I can't see why your kicking up such a fuss. If its disabled, job done. People who want it, enable it, people who don't, don't.

[TCWT]

Let's wait for Matt's opinion on this. I am willing to bet that the majority doesn't want this.

[Antony]

You can create it as a component for IPB 3.0. Those that want to use it, can install it and watch it go. But keep it off the forum's developers plate, it's a waste of developer time better spent on core features - of which a points system is not one.

Will 3.0 feature some sort of system to facilitate this?

[DavoteK]

I am willing to bet that the majority doesn't want this.

The majority being the people that have posted here, on this forum, which is hardly a large cross-section of Invision users.

Stick this up over at Invisionize or some other customisation forum and I'd be willing to bet that the majority would love it.

[neen]

I personally think that the points system should be a default thing. Just because it is there doesn't mean it has to be used.

It's an extra 3-4 lines of code - it's hardly bloatware.

However, with XMod all of this can also be accomplished. XMod needs only a few edits, and doesn't need to be updated for each version of IPB. Every system that uses XMod will work regardless of the version of IPB being used.

[Mat Barrie]

Will 3.0 feature some sort of system to facilitate this?

Yes. IPB 3.0 is touted to feature a full scale inter-active component system with even more flexibility than vB's. So, we'll be waiting a bit for it, but it'll be worth it.

In your opinion, yes. I think that about a number of other features that are packaged with the board, but don't go on a mad anti-rant.

If its disabled, its hardly gonna effect the way the board runs, oh no, you'll have a couple of extra KB of diskspace taken up. Personally, I can't see why your kicking up such a fuss. If its disabled, job done. People who want it, enable it, people who don't, don't.

A couple of extra KB taken up (for the files) a couple of extra KB-MB on top of that taken up (for the database, size dependant on member base) and a call to yet another function every single time an action that needs to call this "points system" executes. Pass. I can't speak for everyone, but the second IPS starts including pointless features like this, I'm selling up and buying vBulletin.

[DavoteK]

Which has all that crap already integrated, lol

[Mat Barrie]

Which has all that crap already integrated, lol

Actually, it doesn't. It has a bunch of other stuff I don't like (reputation system, ugh) but it doesn't have a points system, or the arcane profile page (no, vBulletin's profile pages suck in new and exciting ways!)

[N.U.]

Please someone name me one feature that IPB has already built it that could use a point system. Please any feature? Thank you there are none.

What do people use a point system for? A Arcade, Army System, Store. That's about it that in any case that's useful. But that again goes by what your board is all about. Some make use of features more then others. It would be a bad idea for IPS to start adding features just because its the "Hottest thing to have"

Just because right now, today its a hot mod to have, doesn't mean tomorrow it will be.

All this talk about 3.0... please lets stay on the issue which is 2.2. There is no point system in 2.2, they aren't going to install it in. I don't even think they will ever add one. Because IPS are not stupid people I'm sure they have done their homework and the it shows in this topic with their lack of input on it. Its a waste of their time to comment on this issue.

Why? because they don't plan on it. They are working on 2.2 making sure what they plan out will work and if not they fix it. IMO that is why vbulletin went to crap because every user who ask for features in this same way got added and the rest of the community ends up with loads of features they could care less about.

By keeping it as a add-on. Maybe IPS would make their own point system, I'm sure if they did it would be much more and I bet it would be far easier to add in and be useful in the system then a mod could be.

Not saying they wont every made a point system, they may like they made a gallery and blog add-on. I see that happening for a point system over it being a standard part of the system itself.

Plus I don't know about you. But if I spend days, weeks, maybe longer making a point system mod and release it for free, spend hours reading support and helping people out, then updating it for the next version of IPB only to have IPS make their own and then have everyone go, "Oh guess we don't need you anymore". That would to no end piss me off.

So if anything you should be asking IPS to make it easier for things to be added to the system as well as removed other then packing it full of stuff that only a hand full of people may be using.

[Stec]

I would love to see a points or karma system implemented!