SOLVED: Bypassing forum permissions with group permissions

[Pavel Chernitsky]

After talking to support and coming up empty handed, I turn to you. Maybe some of you came across something similar and found a solution or workaround.

We have a forum that only members in a specific secondary group can post in. Users are manually added to this group at moderators' discretion. We've now decided to allow every user with 150 posts and more to automatically be allowed to post in that forum. 
However, after doing that, members in the secondary group (who were manually added) that DON'T HAVE 150 posts, can't post in the forum, even though all appropriate permissions seem to be set up correctly. 

Is there any option to allow a certain group to "bypass"  the minimum content rule and just have anybody in that secondary group the ability to post in the forum.
I would have used a group promotion rule, but that function does not work retroactively, and thus users who already "apply" for the group promotion rule, don't get the promotion.

Thank you.

[opentype]

You should be doing it the other way around. Remove the 150 posts rule and instead use the group promotion system to push members with 150 posts into your existing secondary group. That should solve it. 

[Morrigan]

18 minutes ago, Pavel Chernitsky said:

Is there any option to allow a certain group to "bypass"  the minimum content rule and just have anybody in that secondary group the ability to post in the forum.
I would have used a group promotion rule, but that function does not work retroactively, and thus users who already "apply" for the group promotion rule, don't get the promotion.

This is inherently inaccurate. While it takes time on some sites (longer on some then others) group promotions rules DO work retroactively. HOWEVER it has to be the "most important" rule that gets applied to your members.

By that I mean. If a rule AFTER this rule applies to them that rule will be applied over this rule.

 

To give proof that it does work retroactively, you can make rules based on user inactivity:

 

[Pavel Chernitsky]

18 minutes ago, opentype said:

You should be doing it the other way around. Remove the 150 posts rule and instead use the group promotion system to push members with 150 posts into your existing secondary group. That should solve it. 

I think I'm following...
Basically, disable the 150 post restriction all together, so that all users in the secondary group get to post, and add a promotion rule where anyone who gets to 150 posts is added to that group?

Because if that's what you mean, not only does it sound like it should work, but also makes me (and the support team 🙂)  look kinda stoopaide for not thinking about that option... 

 

@Morrigan I Wish that were true, but I have tried it multiple times and it simply doesn't work. I only have one group promotion rule so there's no hierarchy issues. The only way it will work is if a user who is already "qualified" for group promotion does something that advances them in the criteria that rule checks for (in our case, posts a piece of content). That basically means, every one of the ~5k people who already have posted 150 pieces of content will not be able to post in the "super secret special forum" until they post another comment somewhere.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Pavel Chernitsky

[Morrigan]

I guess that's the issue. The rule is botched and probably promoting EVERYONE (is what it sounds like). Because the promotion doesn't take into account that its just "one new content item". It only takes into account the "totals" or "if it was a post made in the last X days" etc. So "1 content item" will qualify EVERYONE that posts once.

[Pavel Chernitsky]

Sorry, you misunderstood.
It promotes ONLY people WITH 150+ posts, but only after they've posted ANOTHER piece of content after I've made the rule.

 

For example:
You have 180 posts
I have 180 post
Joe has 28 posts

 

After I've applied the rule.
NO ONE gets moved to the "can post" group.
after I've posted any one piece of content, I am promoted to the "can post" group.
After Joe posted any one piece of content, he isn't promoted to the "can post" group.
You are not promoted to the group until you post a piece of content. 

 

So, a rule can work in this situation, but even then, everyone who already has 150 posts, still has to post one more piece of content before the rule is applied to them.

[Pavel Chernitsky]

1 hour ago, opentype said:

You should be doing it the other way around. Remove the 150 posts rule and instead use the group promotion system to push members with 150 posts into your existing secondary group. That should solve it. 

Duuuuuuude, that just worked. So simple. I guess I had a (very) bad case of tunnel vision so I couldn't even step back and think of it from another direction.
Thanks!

[Pavel Chernitsky]

Edit:
Wow, what an emotional rollercoaster....
What you suggested works, but only to a certain extent. It only moves members that reach 150 posts from here on out, and not members who already have 150 posts. For those members - they'll only be moved after they make and editional post.

So still no 100% solution. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Pavel Chernitsky

[opentype]

Yes, the group promotion is not an instant bulk action. But that shouldn’t matter much in your case. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by opentype

[Pavel Chernitsky]

How so? Until a member who should be affected by this rule will not be until they post another comment somewhere else.

BUT... I think (again LOL) I might have found a way around it - looks like recounting the content count (WOW! say that three times quickly) for a member forces the rule to apply, so if I recount the content count for all members, on the face of it, it should work and move all the relevant members to the "can post" group.

[bfarber]

Group promotion rules run on the account whenever the account has to be resaved to the database for any reason - this can include just logging in to the site. i.e. they don't necessarily need to post another piece of content, just "something" has to happen with their account that requires it be updated.

[Morrigan]

10 hours ago, bfarber said:

Group promotion rules run on the account whenever the account has to be resaved to the database for any reason - this can include just logging in to the site. i.e. they don't necessarily need to post another piece of content, just "something" has to happen with their account that requires it be updated.

Which means that you can force log everyone out and when they log back in it will run the promotion rule on the account but everyone would have to log back in.

[Pavel Chernitsky]

OK, so after a couple of days running the new rule and getting no complaints, I think we've collectively figured it out.

-Like opentype suggested, I've completely removed the 150 post restriction.

-Then, I set up a rule where every member who hits 150 posts (If I have to type "pieces of content" one more Imma kill myself) they automatically get added to a secondary group that gives them permission to post in the super-special-exclusive forum.

-lastly, I went into a random member's profile in the ACP and clicked the content count drop down.
- from there, I clicked "recount" and "Recount for all members".

It took a bit of time to procces in the background (~140K members), which did not affect performance at all, and after that we were done - the secondary group grew by the exact amount it should have, and now all is well.

 

Thank you all for your help!