Commerce : Is there a Danger ?

[Durango]

Hi

We plan to use Commerce with Classifieds to set up a marketplace

So if i understand well how Commerce works :

- users can pay with their paypal account

- If they earn commissions, they get credits (in the case of the Classifieds app, sellers get credits for the items they sell on the marketplace)

- Users can ask for their credits to be paid

- Then we pay them their credits for the sales they have made

All this with Paypal

So The marketplace (us) holds the money before to pay them so it could be a danger if the buyer is not happy with his purchase, what happens ?

The buyer didnt pay directly the seller, he paid the marketplace (us) so if there is a problem, we would be responsible ?

 

Second question (linked to the first one) :

For those who know how Paypal works, i know buyers can open conflicts and block the payments or be refunded if they are not happy, could this happen ?

That would be a major problem :

for instance : we have just paid a credit of $2000 to one of our users (who sold a product on our marketplace), but then the buyer is not happy and asks for his money back and Paypal agrees with him and asks us to refund the $2000 ! we would then pay $4000 !

Correct me if im wrong (i hope i am)

Tx for your help

 

[AndyF]

Strictly from a personal perspective, not related to here in any way (I want to say that simply as my role is Marketplace)

 

1. If the buyer is "not happy" find out *why* It could be something simple like a misunderstanding of how a certain product works or perhaps they did not read its requirements before purchase, or the seller is not helping them with their queries. Always find out if you can why the buyer/client is unhappy and has requested this as in some cases it could be easily put right without much effort on anyone's part. Buyer happy + seller happy = no headache for you.

I do not know the legalities of where the actual responsibilities (legally) would land with this.

 

2. They could although you should have some clear terms that this will not be acceptable conduct and if any buyer has a concern they should first contact the seller and if they are still unhappy they should contact you. The terms / conditions of sale should have something in them stating that if they attempt a chargeback they could lose all their access to your site completely, along with any products (if they are electronic/downloads) etc etc, wording to that effect. I'd also include something saying that it would be up to the prospective buyer to satisfy themselves that any product they are about to purchase meets their requirement before they buy it, by asking appropriate questions before a purchase as goods are not sold on a "trial basis" and sales are final.

Make sure its clearly visible but nicely written too. If from a legal point of view its "not worth the pixels its displayed on" as such, well that's a different issue I guess but at least you have taken what I'd say were reasonable steps.

Regarding any complaints, I'd try to find out (as above) why they are unhappy and if it turns out to be "it does not do xyz" then ask them if they checked this before their purchase (as per your terms)

PP Chargebacks, well I could write quite a bit here that's already been written so I won't as I only use it myself for the occasional purchase nothing more so I'm not really in a good position to write much. I do think from a personal perspective however that with general reading around however that the 'balance' however has shifted from what was once too far in a sellers favour to a little too far in the buyers favour these days, a look at various auction sites and Googling for "problems with (site) sale" will no doubt reveal...

 

It will be interesting to read what others have to say on your questions though.

[Durango]

Hi Andy,

Tx,

Regarding digital goods, the buyer could be unhappy for various reasons, like the script he just bought doesn't cover his needs so he changed his mind and tries to get his money back with a paypal dispute

I thought Paypal was only allowing dispute about normal products, but now it's also covering intangible goods and services :

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update

As you said, most merchants report Paypal is in the buyers favour, even if the case is not clear

That could be a big problem if we have to deal with numerous disputes

Also Interested to read what others have to say about this

 

 

[Durango]

By the way, you never had any paypal dispute on the IPS marketplace ?

[Cyboman]

Paypal terms are tricky and I wouldn't use them for classifieds anymore.

Here one of my experiences in one of my shops:

1. Customer orders a new product worth multiple hundreds dollars in my shop (entered his personal informations, where to send, accepted terms, paid with paypal)
2. My company delivered the product with recorded mail and transaction number, DHL confirmed successful delivery, I have written and trusted evidence
3. Customer opened a Paypal dispute: "I didn't get my product"
4. Paypal asks me for evidence. I send in officially trusted evidence.
5. Paypal says: Sorry, denied, customer address is different to PayPals Customer registration address
6. I responded that customer entered his delivery address in my shopping system, and I can proof and its the customers real address which was 100% correct by the way
7. Paypal: We don't care. You are only allowed to send to the PayPal registered address or bad luck
8. Paypal transfers the money back to customer, I lost the evidently delivered product.

I could tell you other stories (mother paid...; gift for girlfriend...; canceling events after event ended already...; operating with switzerland and their laws and more...) , I had a lot disputes (with clear evidence on my side), but your only chance to solve such issues is to mandate your lawyers and sue the customers directly as PayPal won't help you in many cases. They just respond: "not our business"

I'm looking for better payment providers. It's too dangerous to loose money. With classifieds, where the seller is sending the products, even more.

[Durango]

Hi

Tx for your feedback

Looks like Paypal doesnt care about merchants

but now the question is what payment solution is the best to choose ?

[MADMAN32395]

On 11/24/2017 at 3:03 PM, Cyboman said:

Paypal: We don't care. You are only allowed to send to the PayPal registered address or bad luck

Wouldn't you just create a fraud rule in commerce to check PayPal address against provided address? If no match, then mark for manual approval or deny.

[MADMAN32395]

On 11/25/2017 at 4:01 PM, MADMAN32395 said:

Wouldn't you just create a fraud rule in commerce to check PayPal address against provided address? If no match, then mark for manual approval or deny.

actually @AndyF, looking at the rule setup now... there doesnt appear to be anything for address validation/comparison. any idea?

[AndyF]

10 hours ago, MADMAN32395 said:

actually @AndyF, looking at the rule setup now... there doesnt appear to be anything for address validation/comparison. any idea?

Commerce or 'Rules' (as in the third party app) ? I do not have the latter item.

In Commerce under Payments > Settings > Anti-Fraud Rules you should be able to setup a rule for the email address (containing/matching/regex)

[AlexWright]

16 minutes ago, AndyF said:

Commerce or 'Rules' (as in the third party app) ? I do not have the latter item.

In Commerce under Payments > Settings > Anti-Fraud Rules you should be able to setup a rule for the email address (containing/matching/regex)

The issue is here is physical address. PayPal will Always side with the buyer if the physical address on file with PayPal differs from the shipping address used when placing a physical order in Commerce. If the buyer disputes a charge claiming they never received the item, and the address on file in Commerce is different than PayPal...yeah.

Edit: there should be a fraud rule to prevent that kind of situation.

[AndyF]

35 minutes ago, Lord Nowe said:

The issue is here is physical address. PayPal will Always side with the buyer if the physical address on file with PayPal differs from the shipping address used when placing a physical order in Commerce. If the buyer disputes a charge claiming they never received the item, and the address on file in Commerce is different than PayPal...yeah.

Edit: there should be a fraud rule to prevent that kind of situation.

It would be well worth putting that or similar worded with details as to why into a new Feedback topic.

[AlexWright]

2 hours ago, AndyF said:

It would be well worth putting that or similar worded with details as to why into a new Feedback topic.

I'll leave that to @Durango to do, as my community doesn't deal in physical items (just graphics and digital comics). He's be better equipped I think.