What The Hell Is going on?????

[MADMAN32395]

6 hours ago, CP said:

I agree with this. Things should stop breaking with upgrades and he should not be charged upgrading from 4.1.5.1 to 4.1.5.2 but that is my opinion. Mainly because 4.1.5.2 was a fix for the 4.1.5.1 update. 

 

the new update/upgrade process is so stupidly easy, that I do see why they charge people to have IPS perform the update for them.

 

13 hours ago, Charles said:

This video explains why we no longer do upgrades for free for clients. It literally takes you longer to submit the request for an upgrade than to simply do it. It's literally:

1. Download files
2. Uploads files to your server
3. Press upgrade button

That's really it  

Sometimes it does require manual intervention like for a manual SQL query. But, as I said above, if you choose to self-host we have to assume you can also self-manage to a degree and be able to do basic system admin tasks. If you cannot then you can ask your web host or consider not self-hosting.

Charles even demos how easy it is. Doing a manual update; and the automated is even easier.

[CP]

46 minutes ago, MADMAN32395 said:

the new update/upgrade process is so stupidly easy, that I do see why they charge people to have IPS perform the update for them.

I agree with you. I am talking about his previous upgrade and that it should be performed for free. I am basing this info on his 1st post.

 As I had stated, I see nothing wrong with charging $25 for upgrades. For clarification, I am talking about when I made the post about I agree with everyone. 

[steve00]

So regards if need to make a manual SQL query .... do we have to do that during or after the upgrade (or stop the upgrade and then run the query and re-start the upgrade)

If during then would assume somehow need to stop the upgrade while run the query ... if so then how do you stop and re-start the upgrade ?

Also (as has been mentioned by another member), I feel the point upgrades are coming out too quick ... no sooner do we upgrade then there is another release which is taking our time away from running our website as we have to stop and do the upgrade, IPS say it is taking their time away from their work to do upgrades for customers but appear to not also use the same reasoning for its customers doing the upgrades ... no matter how large or small ... we have to stop what we are doing to do the upgrade and make sure everything is working still and then go back to what we were doing before the upgrade

I understand the need for upgrades but why not wait longer before releasing so can get a few more 'fixes' added then release

[Koby]

Well I'm a self-proclaimed button presser willing to push the upgrade button for anyone who doesn't know how or just doesn't want to do it themselves in fear it'll blow up New York or something.

[CP]

For clarification I have no problems with security upgrades. Release them when you can. The problems start when upgrades are released that are fixes of other upgrades (that should not have been released in the 1st place) or just a random upgrade that serves no real purpose. Test and test again and make sure all upgrades work before making it available for download. I feel like (and I hate to say this) that I am upgrading iTunes all the time that serves no interest to me. When I upgrade, I want to see the upgrade results. I want to see new things, bells whistles, etc. I do not want to upgrade seeing very few changes and more bugs. I want (as a customer) to see fixes and more bells and whistles. 

[Hexsplosions]

24 minutes ago, CP said:

For clarification I have no problems with security upgrades. Release then when you can. The problems start when upgrades are released that are fixes of other upgrades (that should not have been released in the 1st place) or just a random upgrades that serves no real purpose. Test and test again and make sure all upgrades work. I feel like (and I hate to say this) that I am upgrading iTunes all the time that serves no interest to me. When I upgrade, I want to see the upgrade results. I want to see new things, bells whistles, etc. I do not want to upgrade seeing very few changes and more bugs. I want (as a customer) to see fixes and more bells and whistles. 

It seems you're arguing over a presumption. Have you actually got any evidence that IPS has charged somebody for a 4.1.X upgrade and then, subsequently, a 4.1.X.X upgrade?

You're also appearing to forget two points:

1. It's in the admin's control to decide whether to upgrade or not - granted this is more important come a security upgrade, but there's no reason to apply every single upgrade unless you want to. You could, therefore, opt to skip a version to same on time, cost, effort, etc.
2. IPS support will investigate failed upgrade attempts and I seriously doubt any charge will be made if they're required to intervene due to a bug.

I agree with you that to charge upgrade fees in those situations would be outrageous, so I'm not arguing that point, but I'm simply pointing out that I doubt it's so black and white, or even happening at all.

I'd also call the OP out on the age comment - sorry but I must. It's irrelevant. There is no such thing as 'old dog, new tricks'. Everybody can learn to do upgrades. It isn't difficult. I run a gaming clan and have members in that age bracket who have not only started using PCs as they've gotten older, but got into building them, maintaining them, upgrading them, installing games, modding games, etc. The point is, age is not a barrier.

I can understand that a person might be frustrated by losing free upgrades, but there's a very important word there... Free. Nothing is free. Everything costs money and in this instance it's either a case of charging on a per-upgrade basis or recovering costs through pricing. I don't want my prices going up so IPS can support others with free upgrades. I can do my own upgrades and I don't see why I should shoulder the burden of that. That's called business.

[John_C]

13 hours ago, Elbmek said:

When I first came over to IV power, I paid for the software in full, for life. I was told that I would be charged a further $25 per 6 months for ALL Upgrades that came along. Great I thought, I am no techie, so having these lads do it for me was a godsend. Then they pulled the plug on this and told us that, from XXXXX version it software would auto upgrade itself - 'at the click of a button'. It didnt work.  BUT I am still being invoiced for the $25, rip off dollars. As far as I am aware it still does not work, but I will have to check that. The person who kindly does my upgrades for me now, has his own software company and knows more than I ever will. He said it is a pain in the proverbial. Now we have YET another upgrade, only hours after the last one, which was only hours after the previous obne, which was ........................... get my drift? I am seriously pissed off.

At this point, if you're paying someone else to do your forum software updates, you're being ripped off. It's no different than updating a Windows or MAC PC at this point. It pops up a red alert at the top of the screen, you click update and follow the instructions which equates to just watching it update itself. 

 

[MADMAN32395]

8 hours ago, steve00 said:

So regards if need to make a manual SQL query .... do we have to do that during or after the upgrade (or stop the upgrade and then run the query and re-start the upgrade)

If during then would assume somehow need to stop the upgrade while run the query ... if so then how do you stop and re-start the upgrade ?

Also (as has been mentioned by another member), I feel the point upgrades are coming out too quick ... no sooner do we upgrade then there is another release which is taking our time away from running our website as we have to stop and do the upgrade, IPS say it is taking their time away from their work to do upgrades for customers but appear to not also use the same reasoning for its customers doing the upgrades ... no matter how large or small ... we have to stop what we are doing to do the upgrade and make sure everything is working still and then go back to what we were doing before the upgrade

I understand the need for upgrades but why not wait longer before releasing so can get a few more 'fixes' added then release

IIRC from the last time this happened to me, it halts update, you perform the edit, then resume upgrade.

[Elbmek]

as i stated earlier, the $25 was bi annual for upgrades as done by staff and thats what they told me when I signed up. They stopped the upgrades but continued to chagre $25 but now claiming it was for admin. Thats moving the goalposts whilst keeping the ball. This recent spate of updates gives me the impression that one desk does not know what the other is doing. Get software - fix it - release, but NOT every week!!

[MADMAN32395]

5 minutes ago, Elbmek said:

as i stated earlier, the $25 was bi annual for upgrades as done by staff and thats what they told me when I signed up. They stopped the upgrades but continued to chagre $25 but now claiming it was for admin. Thats moving the goalposts whilst keeping the ball. This recent spate of updates gives me the impression that one desk does not know what the other is doing. Get software - fix it - release, but NOT every week!!

so what i'm hearing is you'd rather have security holes? they are free to change their TOS and SLA at any time. It just happened to be a service that is so tedious that its now an a la carte item.

[Ryan H.]

15 minutes ago, Elbmek said:

This recent spate of updates gives me the impression that one desk does not know what the other is doing. Get software - fix it - release, but NOT every week!!

I'm not IPS, so I can't comment on the charges. As for updates: They've moved to a more rapid release cycle in the interest of getting bug fixes and new features out quicker. When they do slow releases they get complaints about how long it takes. Can't really have it both ways.

Unless you're experiencing problems the update addresses, you're under no obligation to update your site upon every single release. Although the automated upgrader should make it very easy to do so going forward.

[CP]

8 hours ago, Evil Edwina said:

It seems you're arguing over a presumption. Have you actually got any evidence that IPS has charged somebody for a 4.1.X upgrade and then, subsequently, a 4.1.X.X upgrade?

 

No, I don't have any evidence of that. I was going on what the OP said. Your right about that though. I see your point. 

[Hexsplosions]

2 hours ago, Elbmek said:

as i stated earlier, the $25 was bi annual for upgrades as done by staff and thats what they told me when I signed up. They stopped the upgrades but continued to chagre $25 but now claiming it was for admin. Thats moving the goalposts whilst keeping the ball. This recent spate of updates gives me the impression that one desk does not know what the other is doing. Get software - fix it - release, but NOT every week!!

The $25 is not for admin, it's for support and access to software updates. That's what it's always been. They have, in the past, offered free upgrades and at the time they would have told you this was the case, but it's not what the $25 covered.

I for one, having used this software for quite some time, do want frequent updates. I want the fixes. I want the performance improvements. Just because you don't want this doesn't mean it's not right for the rest of us. If you don't want to apply every update, and instead apply updates only when a security fix has been provided, that's your prerogative.

2 hours ago, Elbmek said:

Get software - fix it - release, but NOT every week!!

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in this entire thread. I've used a lot of software for which updates are provided at a much greater frequency than weekly, and some where it was only monthly. Weekly releases are a nice balance. Waiting up to a month for fixes can feel like an eternity when you've got a bug or performance issues. To some, it can feel like a long time even when it's weekly! If you want evidence of this, here you go:

8 hours ago, RevengeFNF said:

Can we apply this fix till 4.1.6 is not released?

TL;DR version - If you don't want to apply frequent updates then don't. It's up to you when you apply your updates. Don't presume you speak for the community of users though. We each have our needs and wants, and I, for one, welcome the current approach. It's a refreshing change from the 3.4.X series when updates took a lot longer to arrive. It was often painful to wait for updates.

[Charles]

This topic is really going off the rails. So to be clear:

We used to provide service where we applied upgrades on behalf of clients. We stopped doing this with IPS4 because we put great effort into a much easier upgrade process. Now, the zip download only contains files you actually need to upgrade. Also, in version 4.1, you now have the option to automatically FTP in files (when possible) to apply updated files.

My video here shows how easy the manual upgrade process is:

 

Yes, we did stop offering upgrade as a manual service we provide but that is simply because upgrades are so easy now that it can take longer for you to submit the upgrade request than to simply do the upgrade yourself. It's not a highly technical thing: just a matter of uploading some files and clicking a button. Yes, sometimes it will prompt you to manually run a SQL query but that is just the nature of this sort of software and we have assume if you self-host then you (or your web host) can self-manage to the point to run some basic queries we provide (you just have to copy/paste them).

Finally, as of IPS4, we certainly do release updates much more frequently. This is for many reasons. It's 2015 and people expect more agile software development. IPB3 would take sometimes 6 months between releases. No one liked that. But more importantly we do not want to sit on security updates, bug fixes, or performance improvements. You are free to ignore releases until you feel like upgrading but most clients want and I might say expect us to keep up proactive development.

I am sorry that some feel $25 every 6 months warrants us logging into your server, uploading a few files, and pressing "go" for you but it's just not something we can justify. We would really rather focus on continuing to improve our community platform.

If for some reason you are paying someone else to do upgrades for you I would really suggest you simply try following the upgrade process in the AdminCP when it prompts you. It really is easy and you can save yourself a ton of time and money just by doing it yourself.