View New Content - Possible feedback?

[Hexsplosions]

This is either a request for support or a bit of feedback (for version 4, appreciate it's a bit late in the day for 3.4.X), but I'm not sure which yet. It depends whether I am being stupid or not... :lol:

When I am using the View New Content link on the main skin I don't find it very convenient when clicking on the topic to view. It either takes me to the first post in the topic or the last one (if I click the "time posted" link). It doesn't take me to the first unread post which is what I would have expected and found far more convenient.

When I use the same View New Content link on the mobile skin it behaves completely differently and takes me to the first unread post, which is exactly what I would have expected and find far more convenient.

I can't see to find a way to make this consistent across both skins in the settings.

What I want to happen...

Scenario 1 - unread topic

I click on the link for the topic and it takes me to the first unread post. Since I haven't read this topic at all, that is the very first post. (one click)

Scenario 2 - read topic, several new posts

I click on the link for the topic and it takes me to the first unread post. Since there are a few posts since I last read this topic, I don't find myself at the end of the topic but at that last place I left off. I start reading from there. (one click)

Scenario 3 - read topic, one new post

I click on the link for the topic and it takes me to the first unread post. Since there is only one unread post since I last read this topic it takes me to the last post. (one click)

What happens now...

Scenario 1 - unread topic

I click on the link for the topic and it takes me to the first post. Since I haven't read this topic at all, that is the post I wanted to see. (one click - fine so far)

Scenario 2 - read topic, several new posts

I click on the link for the topic and it takes me to the first post. Since there are a few posts since I last read this topic, I need to find where I left off. I have to either scroll down (if it's a single page thread) or find the right page and then scroll down (if it's a multi-page thread). (at least 2 clicks - if you know which page to land on)

Scenario 3 - read topic, one new post

I click on the link for the topic and it takes me to the first post. Since I don't know how many new posts there are I might have to check the last page first, just to see. (at least 2 clicks - if you know there's only one post to view)

Summary

In the above scenarios I have tried not to labour the point about multiple clicks too heavily, but in reality users won't know exactly which page they were last on and so it will take more than two clicks to find the right place to pick up from. It would be far more convenient for them to be put at the right place, where they last left the thread. At most, they would briefly scroll up to refresh their memory.

Am I stupid?

You might just answer yes because I missed an obvious setting - but if you do please tell me where I can change this setting :lol: - otherwise no and I can't change this without a skin edit.

Thanks for reading! :tongue:

[MisterPhilip]

Clicking the post icon to the left of the title will always take you to the latest unread post. If you haven't read the thread, then it'll take you to the first post; otherwise, it'll take you to the post you left off on. The title will always take you to the first post (by default)

[GreenLinks]

Clicking the post icon to the left of the title will always take you to the latest unread post. If you haven't read the thread, then it'll take you to the first post; otherwise, it'll take you to the post you left off on. The title will always take you to the first post (by default)

System should only use logic , if the user already read the topic, it should directly take him to unread posts. Having two different links ( like they have in IPB 3.4 ) will just confuse users.

[Hexsplosions]

Clicking the post icon to the left of the title will always take you to the latest unread post. If you haven't read the thread, then it'll take you to the first post; otherwise, it'll take you to the post you left off on. The title will always take you to the first post (by default)

Thank you.

Now that I know that I can make use of it, but my users don't know that. I agree with the below quote;

System should only use logic , if the user already read the topic, it should directly take him to unread posts. Having two different links ( like they have in IPB 3.4 ) will just confuse users.

I agree that it's not logical to be taken to the first post when clicking the link. It doesn't work this way in the main forum view and it's counter intuitive.

[MisterPhilip]

System should only use logic , if the user already read the topic, it should directly take him to unread posts. Having two different links ( like they have in IPB 3.4 ) will just confuse users.

I agree too - but what would you use to get the user back to the first topic via one click?

[Hexsplosions]

I agree too - but what would you use to get the user back to the first topic via one click?

I don't think there's as strong a need for that. Unless the first topic is something you need to keep going back to. IMO the experience the users will use the most should be the best one. Going back to the start a topic you already read is more of an exception than going to the first unread post.

[GreenLinks]

I agree too - but what would you use to get the user back to the first topic via one click?

Why would you want to take an user to first post of the topic where he already read that ;)

Also having the thread post icon linked to new post is the worst possible thing. Most users will not realise that. I saw this clearly on our big board immediately after switching to IPB , people still have issues on going the first unread posts.

[3DKiwi]

I had to add a legend to the VNC results page. Hardly anyone knows to click on the dot on the left to take you to the first unread post.

[MisterPhilip]

Why would you want to take an user to first post of the topic where he already read that ;)

Because.... uhhh. See IPS, why do we need it to go to the first page? :tongue:

[Hexsplosions]

Because.... uhhh. See IPS, why do we need it to go to the first page? :tongue:

ROFL - Awesome reply! :lol:

[Aiwa]

For the elephants in the room that have great memories, that's a great idea... Once you've read something it's committed to memory and you never need to see it again. Maybe I can query your brain instead of the database for faster access times?

The rest of us chimps, that have a brain the size of a peanut, sometimes want to see the original post / question... Especially if it's a topic that's being bumped after a few weeks / months...

There are arguments both ways... Ultimately I prefer consistency, what something does one place, it should do everywhere unless there is a distinct reason not to.

[TwistedMerlin]

Could you not alter the thread display template to show the first post at the top of all the thread pages? Similar to the way blogs work?

[TwistedMerlin]

I had to add a legend to the VNC results page. Hardly anyone knows to click on the dot on the left to take you to the first unread post.

Some of the dinosaurs on my site might actually appreciate something like that :blink:

[GreenLinks]

For the elephants in the room that have great memories, that's a great idea... Once you've read something it's committed to memory and you never need to see it again. Maybe I can query your brain instead of the database for faster access times?

The rest of us chimps, that have a brain the size of a peanut, sometimes want to see the original post / question... Especially if it's a topic that's being bumped after a few weeks / months...

There are arguments both ways... Ultimately I prefer consistency, what something does one place, it should do everywhere unless there is a distinct reason not to.

We all have to recheck things from time to time. If you feel the need to recheck anything, you can always go back and check it after reading the first unread post.

Keep in mind as we always stated consistency around the system is a key. Lets look at this from notifications stand point. http://d.pr/i/x5Cz as we can see there is only 1 link on notification which takes you directly to unread post because logic states user should first go to first unread posts. As stated earlier we can always re check any previous posts by browsing to earlier pages.

I am not also denying the fact that there can also be a link to browse to first page. But problem with IPB 3 series is , it is extremely hard to realise post icon is the link to unread post. Users attention will always first focus on thread title , so any existing link for unread post should also be located on same area with thread title.

[Hexsplosions]

Consistency is important, I agree, but so is the main flow.

Do members mainly want to;

• Go to the first unread post?
  or
• Go to the first post?

I believe the answer will almost inevitably be 1. If we consider that re-reading the thread from the beginning is the exception to the norm, it's more acceptable to have to put more effort (more clicks) into achieving that.

[Hexsplosions]

I think I have found the needed change. I am not a coder but this seemed to work for me.

In Skin > Search > asForumTopics

Find;

<h4><a href='{parse url="showtopic={$data['tid']}<if test="isNewPostTR:|:$this->request['do']=='new_posts' OR $this->request['do']=='active'">&amp;view=getnewpost<else /><if test="resultIsPostTR:|:$data['pid'] AND $data['pid'] != $data['topic_firstpost']">&amp;view=findpost&amp;p={$data['pid']}</if></if>&amp;hl={$data['cleanSearchTerm']}" seotitle="{$data['title_seo']}" template="showtopic" base="public"}' title='{$this->lang->words['view_result']}'>{$data['_shortTitle']}</a></h4>

Replace with;

<h4><a href='{parse url="showtopic={$data['tid']}<if test="isNewPostTR:|:$this->request['do']=='new_posts' OR $this->request['do']=='active' OR $this->request['do']=='viewNewContent'">&amp;view=getnewpost<else /><if test="resultIsPostTR:|:$data['pid'] AND $data['pid'] != $data['topic_firstpost']">&amp;view=findpost&amp;p={$data['pid']}</if></if>&amp;hl={$data['cleanSearchTerm']}" seotitle="{$data['title_seo']}" template="showtopic" base="public"}' title='{$this->lang->words['view_result']}'>{$data['_shortTitle']}</a></h4>

The key element added being;

OR $this->request['do']=='viewNewContent'

[bfarber]

We made the software behave as described when we released 3.0 and there was an uproar from many of our longtime users who felt the change was confusing and not as expected, and many users at that time presented their use cases for needing to access the first post of the topic via one click (right now you can access first unread post, first post or last post - the change would lead to removing access to the first post of the topic).

Our interface designer will naturally review this workflow before we release any betas of 4.0 to determine what route we should go with 4.0. :) Yes, in the mean time, you can edit your skin template to make the topic title link point to the first unread post jump.

[Nick Willson]

In View New Content the 'Preview this topic' arrow does preview the first unread post if there is one e.g. it shows first post, first unread post and last post. I realise the 'Preview this topic' arrow itself is something of a hidden feature for many of my forum members but I find it really useful.

[Hexsplosions]

In View New Content the 'Preview this topic' arrow does preview the first unread post if there is one e.g. it shows first post, first unread post and last post. I realise the 'Preview this topic' arrow itself is something of a hidden feature for many of my forum members but I find it really useful.

That's similar to my forum. I know it's there but it's something of a hidden feature.

Our interface designer will naturally review this workflow before we release any betas of 4.0 to determine what route we should go with 4.0. :smile: Yes, in the mean time, you can edit your skin template to make the topic title link point to the first unread post jump.

If there are strong use cases for both then I'd suggest it warrants being configurable.

[mrenkema]

We changed to 4.0, well 4.1 and indeed many users liked to use the 'Preview this topic' arrow. Will it be back? Or is it somewhere hidden?

Marten

[Hexsplosions]

6 hours ago, mrenkema said:

We changed to 4.0, well 4.1 and indeed many users liked to use the 'Preview this topic' arrow. Will it be back? Or is it somewhere hidden?

Marten

I believe they just need to hover over it for a second. Try it.

[chilihead]

The preview with first and last post is gone. No, there is no hover.

What has replaced it really is expanded view, for a truncated version of the content.

I wonder if, in condensed, they could add the truncated contents to the hover.

They could add hovercards, I know Lindy is pro-hovercard but other staff are not, from using the 4.1 preview site.  

[mrenkema]

Thanks guys! Loud and clear .... and a pity