Maybe disallow paid modifications under downloads?

[cheatmaster30]

I'm not against having a system for paid mods, but I don't think they should be mixed in randomly with the free ones and should probably be in a different category at least so those who want/don't want them don't get confused. Because at the moment, there's pretty much no way to tell a mod is paid until you click to see the mod description, and they're all just randomly mixed in with the free ones all over the place. No other forum software company does this (or any forum software manufacturer).

I also think there should be a rule against encryption of free mods, there's no purpose at all to have this other than vanity, and really, it's an inconveniance which is hardly ever even stated in the mod description. Oh, and to anyone arguing about how piracy this and that, someone I read says this really nice response:

Here are two scenarios. Which sounds more plausible?

That a swarm of insidious forces have conspired against our genius game developers including the used games market, retailers, pirates, the media, and even customers

[Mark]

Everyone has different opinions about this.

Personally, if I'm looking for software, I look for what meets my needs and then decided if it's good enough to pay what they're asking - I wouldn't go looking specifically for a paid mod because it's paid or a free mod because it's free.
However, we realise some people just have no interest in paid mods. I'd like to add a filter that allows you to hide all paid files - we've got some really good ideas in mind for how to improve the downloads area in the near future, so hopefully we'll add something like that then.

As for encoding vs. non encoding. We don't really want to impose a set of rules on our mod authors - if you disagree with a particular mod author's practices, that's between you and the mod author. Nothing to do with us ;)

[Mat Barrie]

In the meantime, can we get back the gold "$" so people can see at a glance?

(Also, is that a Brad Wardell quote?)

[cheatmaster30]

Everyone has different opinions about this.

Personally, if I'm looking for software, I look for what meets my needs and then decided if it's good enough to pay what they're asking - I wouldn't go looking specifically for a paid mod because it's paid or a free mod because it's free.

However, we realise some people just have no interest in paid mods. I'd like to add a filter that allows you to hide all paid files - we've got some really good ideas in mind for how to improve the downloads area in the near future, so hopefully we'll add something like that then.

As for encoding vs. non encoding. We don't really want to impose a set of rules on our mod authors - if you disagree with a particular mod author's practices, that's between you and the mod author. Nothing to do with us ;)

But for encoding, it basically means nearly everything ends up encoded. Basically, you can't even have much of an interesting forum here without having to put up with encoded modifications or finding even about four lines of code being charged money for. I miss the days when the internet was more for hobbyists and when people actually didn't have financial interests as their only goal.

In the meantime, can we get back the gold "{:content:}quot; so people can see at a glance?

(Also, is that a Brad Wardell quote?)

That kind of symbol would be a brilliant way to mark which mods and styles are paid, so I second it. And the quote? You mean the quote I posted? No, it's by someone called Malstrom.

[AndyF]

In the meantime, can we get back the gold "$" so people can see at a glance?

I'd expect it to make a return soon. :)

[Mat Barrie]

And the quote? You mean the quote I posted? No, it's by someone called Malstrom.

Yeah, that's the quote I mean. It's the sort of thing he often posts (he's CEO of Stardock, which develops and publishes apps and... well, games actually).

[Fishfish0001]

I hate to argue with this encoding stuff, but I just have one thing to say:

If you don't like the way someone sells or creates something, then why don't you go find someone else, or make your own. The author should have the right to do what they please, and if that means encoding it, then let it be encoded.

---End Rant--

Anyways, I would at least like that $ back. Was pretty handy given I don't have much money just laying around, so I hate getting my hopes up :P

[Wolfie]

for marking or sorting the paid -vs- free mods.

Although to add onto this, I believe that if a mod has both a free and paid version, that it should have another marking, or at the very least, be REQUIRED to be mentioned plainly in the description. There's at least one mod that I know of that you don't learn that it's got limited features unless you pay for it until AFTER it's been installed. Yes, it's free and it works (presumably) but it's obvious that it was limited for the purpose of squeezing money out of someone. So would prefer that there either be an extra field where a person can mark that there are free and paid versions available or be required to note it in the description.


on restricting authors from encoding files. So long as they mention it up front and you know that some (or all) of the files are encoded, then I see not problem with it. Perhaps another filter (either when searching, or something to signify encoded -vs- unencoded), but I see nothing wrong with it.

[cheatmaster30]

The thing about encryption is it's another futile attempt at trying to blame 'piracy' for the problems of the product itself, and it's just... wasting valuable time and effort on trying to limit the consumer.

But even some way to mark it would be good, I've downloaded quite a few mods here which don't say anything about encoding unless you open an actual PHP file in Notepad.

[Blind Bandit]

Everyone has different opinions about this.

Personally, if I'm looking for software, I look for what meets my needs and then decided if it's good enough to pay what they're asking - I wouldn't go looking specifically for a paid mod because it's paid or a free mod because it's free.

However, we realise some people just have no interest in paid mods. I'd like to add a filter that allows you to hide all paid files - we've got some really good ideas in mind for how to improve the downloads area in the near future, so hopefully we'll add something like that then.

As for encoding vs. non encoding. We don't really want to impose a set of rules on our mod authors - if you disagree with a particular mod author's practices, that's between you and the mod author. Nothing to do with us ;)

This is what bugs me about IPS. They are modding IPS products so I think its important for IPS to hold mod authors to a certain standards and actually take an interest in the modding community. I don't understand why IPS pretty much ignores its modding community. Its one of the few problems IPS has.

I hate to argue with this encoding stuff, but I just have one thing to say:

If you don't like the way someone sells or creates something, then why don't you go find someone else, or make your own. The author should have the right to do what they please, and if that means encoding it, then let it be encoded.

---End Rant--

Anyways, I would at least like that $ back. Was pretty handy given I don't have much money just laying around, so I hate getting my hopes up :P

Because encoding is a huge security risk for the user. And frankly it shows a mods authors lack of understanding in how their products are used. IPS shouldn't allow encryption of products it only holds the mod community back.

And I second everything cheatmaster said. Its sad that the IPB community can't wake up and see that encryption and people overcharging for mods are holding the entire community back.

[Mat Barrie]

Because encoding is a huge security risk for the user. And frankly it shows a mods authors lack of understanding in how their products are used. IPS shouldn't allow encryption of products it only holds the mod community back.

And I second everything cheatmaster said. Its sad that the IPB community can't wake up and see that encryption and people overcharging for mods are holding the entire community back.

No. Stop it, right now. You don't have the right to tell developers how they have to develop their software. If you are paying the developers, you have the right to be heard (at least by any decent developer). And there are legitimate use cases for encoding modifications. The main one I can see is where the application relies on a third party API that the developer cannot disclose the details of (or where the developer obtains an API key for their application which should not be disclosed) . An example of such would be any application which connects to Google's AdWords API. A developer would be suicidal to not encode such an application, as Google charges real money to the developer for every call made to the API using their key.

Encoding is also not a security risk, the people using it are the risk. And they'd be risky even if they didn't encode.

[Wolfie]

The thing about encryption is it's another futile attempt at trying to blame 'piracy' for the problems of the product itself, and it's just... wasting valuable time and effort on trying to limit the consumer.

If that isn't the biggest load of b.s. I've ever heard. Encoding isn't blaming anyone. Someone may decide to encode to prevent privacy, but that's different from 'blaming' piracy. Also, who are you to claim that the product is the problem? That's like blaming a victim for getting mugged.

But even some way to mark it would be good, I've downloaded quite a few mods here which don't say anything about encoding unless you open an actual PHP file in Notepad.

Um, opening PHP files in Notepad is a horrible idea as it makes the PHP files look horrible and like they're encoded or something. You should use something like UltraEdit or some other editor that can properly handle unix formatted files.

This is what bugs me about IPS. They are modding IPS products so I think its important for IPS to hold mod authors to a certain standards and actually take an interest in the modding community. I don't understand why IPS pretty much ignores its modding community. Its one of the few problems IPS has.

If someone were ripping off people and it were to get reported, I'm confident that IPS would remove the paid file listings from that author to try to help prevent fraud among the community.

Because encoding is a huge security risk for the user. And frankly it shows a mods authors lack of understanding in how their products are used. IPS shouldn't allow encryption of products it only holds the mod community back.

And I second everything cheatmaster said. Its sad that the IPB community can't wake up and see that encryption and people overcharging for mods are holding the entire community back.

If you don't want to use encoded files or pay for mods, then don't. No one is forcing you to buy or use encoded mods.

[Robulosity2]

Oh my... There is some serious "lol" value here..

If for only the fact clearly someone has no idea what he's talking about

[Blind Bandit]

No. Stop it, right now. You don't have the right to tell developers how they have to develop their software. If you are paying the developers, you have the right to be heard (at least by any decent developer). And there are legitimate use cases for encoding modifications. The main one I can see is where the application relies on a third party API that the developer cannot disclose the details of (or where the developer obtains an API key for their application which should not be disclosed) . An example of such would be any application which connects to Google's AdWords API. A developer would be suicidal to not encode such an application, as Google charges real money to the developer for every call made to the API using their key.

Encoding is also not a security risk, the people using it are the risk. And they'd be risky even if they didn't encode.

Frankly you made the typical developer argument while ignoring the customers at the same time. This is the problem with IPS for some reason no ones seems to care about the customers at least when it comes to mods. Also you can't really determine my rights in this matter.

Also I don't trust developers enough to use an encoded product no matter who they are. Developers need to stop thinking only of themselves and think how about the use of DRM effects the use of their product and the trust reception they create or don't.

I find it sad that most people can't understand that problem also holds back IPS as whole. As many consider a forum product's mod / theme community an interracial part of the overall package that is forum software. Its part of the reason VB is /was so popular. They ran a great mod community.

@Wolfie your right I don't nor do others. But the point is here. Its important to look at the bigger picture not just us individuals but the community a s whole. Thats where my problem lies.

[Mat Barrie]

Frankly you made the typical developer argument while ignoring the customers at the same time. This is the problem with IPS for some reason no ones seems to care about the customers at least when it comes to mods. Also you can't really determine my rights in this matter.

Also I don't trust developers enough to use an encoded product no matter who they are. Developers need to stop thinking only of themselves and think how about the use of DRM effects the use of their product and the trust reception they create or don't.

I find it sad that most people can't understand that problem also holds back IPS as whole. As many consider a forum product's mod / theme community an interracial part of the overall package that is forum software. Its part of the reason VB is /was so popular. They ran a great mod community.

Your attitude is patently offensive. I care most greatly about my customers, and who are you to say I don't? What I ignore is whiny people who are not likely to ever be my customers. And yes, I can really determine your rights - you don't have the right to tell us (or anyone else) what to do. Get over it.

Developers can either choose to use encoding or not. Personally, I choose not to because I honestly don't really like encoding. But I don't think it's my right to go telling Anthony that he can't encode the Bouncy Radio Center or whatever. You might have noticed that the use case I provided is legitimate, but you ignored it becuase it doesn't suit your view.

I'd also like to point out that, sadly, so many IP.Board mods are available on warez sites. The only ones which you can guarantee aren't? The encoded ones. I think folks like Anthony will agree to stop encoding the day piracy ceases. Not happening? Surprise surprise.

[Blind Bandit]

Your attitude is patently offensive. I care most greatly about my customers, and who are you to say I don't? What I ignore is whiny people who are not likely to ever be my customers. And yes, I can really determine your rights - you don't have the right to tell us (or anyone else) what to do. Get over it.

Developers can either choose to use encoding or not. Personally, I choose not to because I honestly don't really like encoding. But I don't think it's my right to go telling Anthony that he can't encode the Bouncy Radio Center or whatever. You might have noticed that the use case I provided is legitimate, but you ignored it becuase it doesn't suit your view.

I'd also like to point out that, sadly, so many IP.Board mods are available on warez sites. The only ones which you can guarantee aren't? The encoded ones. I think folks like Anthony will agree to stop encoding the day piracy ceases. Not happening? Surprise surprise.

Its clear you entrenched in your opinion and I don't wish to further derail this thread as cheat master made some very good consecutive criticism and I don't wish to see that ignore. I understand your prospective. But I can't agree with you.

But I will say again this isn't about me or you or anyone person but the entire community of IPB users. and I hope everyone see the bigger picture what ever that happens to be.

But in closing I'll leave you with this. You see the part of your post I put in bold . That is hypocrisy and frankly flawed logic. As if a developers holds all the cards and customers are simply supposed to take what the developers feels they are worthy of. It shows extremely poor customer service aptitude.

So I'm bowing out, in the hopes that Cheat masters constrictive criticisms will be taken seriously.

[TestingSomething]

This is brought up all the time. It's not likely to change much.

I certainly don't agree with disallowing them from the system though. I'm not renewing my perpetual support if not for the fact of listing paid mods at some point. Only reason i really have for renewing it.

It's good that a lot of them are free, but it does take a lot of time to make some things and I personally don't know how so many people have the time to make some of the bigger ones and then not charge for them. One app i've worked on myself would have got me like $150,000 if I were paid for the hour and charged even modest hourly rates for. I've done a few small thigns for people for free, but ones which take some time... well unles someone's rich they almost have to charge. :P

[Mat Barrie]

But in closing I'll leave you with this. You see the part of your post I put in bold . That is hypocrisy and frankly flawed logic. As if a developers holds all the cards and customers are simply supposed to take what the developers feels they are worthy of. It shows extremely poor customer service aptitude.

Au contraire - neither side has the right to tell the other what to do (though the government steps in to tell both sides to play fair). So I can't really agree with even that statement.

So I'm bowing out, in the hopes that Cheat masters constrictive criticisms will be taken seriously.

Cheatmaster30's main problem was that the free and paid mods aren't seperated - they're fixing that. And they've already said that they don't intend to implement a "no encoding" rule (although I feel there should be a "disclosure of encoding" rule).

What points are left?

[.Ian]

Not another encoding debate :(

I thought we had all exhausted the arguments before.

There are two arcades at the moment - one encoded and one not - I am using the encoded one for now as it offers me categories built in, which the un-encoded one does not. So like paid and unpaid one has to evaluate which mod gives you the best options for your site. This is despite preferring un-encoded mods. I cannot edit a minor file in the arcade I am using - but I have to accept this in order to have categories. I am not going to cry over it as I have accepted the version that is best for my users IMHO.

[AnthonyKinson]

heres the facts, and the only thing i have left to say on these encoding topics now.

My mods have 1 or 2 encoded files, these one or 2 files contain App Critical functions and license checks, without them in my paid apps, the apps dont work.

The reason for this is very simple, My Apps are major system, they dont just add a little feature to your forum, they are big system that take weeks to write, months / years to maintain, support, upgrade and develop further, ultimatly to give my customers the best possible experience and up to date features available.

If i was to remove my encoding, alot of people wouldnt buy it, people would download it for free elsewhere, maybe not even realising that thy were doing so illegally, if they have problems with it, or a bad experience because it contains some malicious code, its my reputation that would be damaged, i would also lose money, and i wouldnt be able to spend the time i do creating these systems.

It's not just that though, another thing that has happened in the past is people take my core files, they re-brand it, then they will sell my apps with a different front end design or different images at a lower cost, and i lose buisness. Theres developers now who are experiencing the exact same thing, skinners too, people stealing there work, changing it slightly and reselling it, and trust me, theres alot of developers out there now who would love to encode one or two files to preotect there work, but they feel pressured by the community not to do so and as a result they are constantly losing money and fighting pirates none stop, and this is ultimatly down to the people who moan about encoding pressuring them.

I can tell you now straight up, if my encoding and licensing was not there, theres absolutly no way i would be able to spend the time i do on developing Bouncy Mail, let alone provide it for free to the IPS Community, i give back to the community and always have, i'm not here to just sell mods, i'm here to improve the whole IP.Board experience for as many people as i can, and if they dont like the fact my Apps have or 2 encoded files, thats fine, no one is forcing anyone to buy them.

I respect and understand peoples concerns and choice not to use encoded files, and i think its about time people started respecting the developers choice to protect their hard work with an encoded files. It doesnt limit anything, not in my apps anyway, people can still modify my apps and many people have don that. All it does is stops you from stealing my code, disabling my security and using my apps without buying them, and to be frank, anyone who has a problem with me preventing thoose things should not be the ones passng judgment.

Anyway, i think its about time people stopped telling developers what they should and shouldnt do, and giving them grief because of choice they make, because putting pressure on them not to protect there work is ultimatly going to lead to a decline in their work. Me, i dont care what people think, my encoded files will stay, i'm not going to hand years of my work to piarates to destroy and make money off, just to satisfy a few people with people with a grudge against encoding.

[AnthonyKinson]

This is what bugs me about IPS. They are modding IPS products so I think its important for IPS to hold mod authors to a certain standards and actually take an interest in the modding community. I don't understand why IPS pretty much ignores its modding community. Its one of the few problems IPS has.

See, now comments like that is what drives me mad, IPS do more than any of us could expect from them, they help us none stop, ask for our opinions, they take every single request into consideration and make the best choices for everyone.

They are always helping resource authors, none stop, every single day and i'm sure anyone who's been inside the contributors section will say the same.

To say IPS ignores its modding community is an absolute ridiculous thing to say!

[cheatmaster30]

Your attitude is patently offensive. I care most greatly about my customers, and who are you to say I don't? What I ignore is whiny people who are not likely to ever be my customers. And yes, I can really determine your rights - you don't have the right to tell us (or anyone else) what to do. Get over it.

Except most of us who don't use said mods likely would be customers if there wasn't encoding. Hell, I'd use far more of the mods here if they didn't use it. But go ahead and think people who disagree are irrelevant.

I'd also like to point out that, sadly, so many IP.Board mods are available on warez sites. The only ones which you can guarantee aren't? The encoded ones. I think folks like Anthony will agree to stop encoding the day piracy ceases. Not happening? Surprise surprise.

Except piracy isn't as big a deal as everyone states. It's wrong, and I'd never do as such, but it affects maybe a small minority of the possible customers. There's no wide ranging conspiracy where everyone pirates it where available, the pirates are a far smaller group than the legitimate users. Don't ever punish legitimate customers for the sake of getting at pirates, it doesn't work. It's why the games industry has more pirates, because the prices keep rising and the industry keeps trying to limit and ripoff the people who actually pay for the things.

heres the facts, and the only thing i have left to say on these encoding topics now.

My mods have 1 or 2 encoded files, these one or 2 files contain App Critical functions and license checks, without them in my paid apps, the apps dont work.

And what happens if your site goes offline? Does it take out the apps/sites using said mods? If so, that's the kind of DRM which causes more people to turn to piracy. If not, slightly fairer, and fair enough if they're paid mods.

[

The reason for this is very simple, My Apps are major system, they dont just add a little feature to your forum, they are big system that take weeks to write, months / years to maintain, support, upgrade and develop further, ultimatly to give my customers the best possible experience and up to date features available.

If i was to remove my encoding, alot of people wouldnt buy it, people would download it for free elsewhere, maybe not even realising that thy were doing so illegally, if they have problems with it, or a bad experience because it contains some malicious code, its my reputation that would be damaged, i would also lose money, and i wouldnt be able to spend the time i do creating these systems.

It's not just that though, another thing that has happened in the past is people take my core files, they re-brand it, then they will sell my apps with a different front end design or different images at a lower cost, and i lose buisness. Theres developers now who are experiencing the exact same thing, skinners too, people stealing there work, changing it slightly and reselling it, and trust me, theres alot of developers out there now who would love to encode one or two files to preotect there work, but they feel pressured by the community not to do so and as a result they are constantly losing money and fighting pirates none stop, and this is ultimatly down to the people who moan about encoding pressuring them.

Copyright law. My advice is to get their sites shut down. Send an email to the host, etc. Encoding punishes legitimate customers for the acts of a small minority. The rippers should also ideally be banned from IPB's site and what not. If they have user accounts here, I'd say report them as well.

Anyway, i think its about time people stopped telling developers what they should and shouldnt do, and giving them grief because of choice they make, because putting pressure on them not to protect there work is ultimatly going to lead to a decline in their work. Me, i dont care what people think, my encoded files will stay, i'm not going to hand years of my work to piarates to destroy and make money off, just to satisfy a few people with people with a grudge against encoding.

That's a rather egotistical response. Remember... in any form of commerce, the customer not developer/maker/publisher/seller is king.

Encoding is also not a security risk, the people using it are the risk. And they'd be risky even if they didn't encode.

But doesn't that prove the point? Encoding puts everyone using it at the mercy of one person without any real well to check whether the product is secure or not?

Um, opening PHP files in Notepad is a horrible idea as it makes the PHP files look horrible and like they're encoded or something. You should use something like UltraEdit or some other editor that can properly handle unix formatted files.

Usually I use Notepad 2 though. Which seems to work fine.

If that isn't the biggest load of b.s. I've ever heard. Encoding isn't blaming anyone. Someone may decide to encode to prevent privacy, but that's different from 'blaming' piracy. Also, who are you to claim that the product is the problem? That's like blaming a victim for getting mugged.

I'm paraphrasing this guy and what he says about games. It's the same issue, everyone always mentions piracy for things as the 'death of this' and 'death of that' when it's people sick of things on the developers part usually causing this instead.

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/as-the-core-market-unravels-the-game-industry-blames-everyone-except-itself/

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/how-stupid-is-the-game-industry-so-stupid/

[Mat Barrie]

Except most of us who don't use said mods likely would be customers if there wasn't encoding. Hell, I'd use far more of the mods here if they didn't use it. But go ahead and think people who disagree are irrelevant.

I don't think people who disagree are irrelevant, I think they disagree, and I'm not changing my mind to support them.

Except piracy isn't as big a deal as everyone states. It's wrong, and I'd never do as such, but it affects maybe a small minority of the possible customers. There's no wide ranging conspiracy where everyone pirates it where available, the pirates are a far smaller group than the legitimate users. Don't ever punish legitimate customers for the sake of getting at pirates, it doesn't work. It's why the games industry has more pirates, because the prices keep rising and the industry keeps trying to limit and ripoff the people who actually pay for the things.

Are you sure you haven't been reading journals by Brad Wardell? See this for an example. Anyway, I'd like to point out that for the smaller modders, the pirate group is larger than the purchasing group. Make no mistake.

Copyright law. My advice is to get their sites shut down. Send an email to the host, etc. Encoding punishes legitimate customers for the acts of a small minority. The rippers should also ideally be banned from IPB's site and what not. If they have user accounts here, I'd say report them as well.

Copyright laws are useless against sites in Malaysia, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, and dozens of other countries. And, although I hate to say this, reporting them to IPS is pointless. I've never seen IPS move against any of the pirates that actually buy IPB, and believe me there have been complaints in less public areas about it. I'm sure there's some reason, but they don't share with us what that is.

That's a rather egotistical response. Remember... in any form of commerce, the customer not developer/maker/publisher/seller is king.

The customer most assuredly is not. I'd like to bring your attention to another quote from Brad Wardell. Anyway, I'm sure Anthony does value his customers - but a person having a fit about his choice to encode and refusing to buy his product isn't a customer now, are they? And need I remind you that a lot of us just make mods we think would be cool, and offer them up for others because we think others might benefit. You'll find that in these instances, the developer has a guide in their mind of how the product will work, and the opinion of even the customers is irrelevant to that.

But doesn't that prove the point? Encoding puts everyone using it at the mercy of one person without any real well to check whether the product is secure or not?

No.

I'm paraphrasing this guy and what he says about games. It's the same issue, everyone always mentions piracy for things as the 'death of this' and 'death of that' when it's people sick of things on the developers part usually causing this instead.

http://seanmalstrom....-except-itself/

http://seanmalstrom....stry-so-stupid/

Lots of assumption there. I hate to tell you this, but more often pirates will pirate the product simply because they don't want to pay - and they'll use "sick of things on the developers part" as a rationalisation. It's not because the product is substandard, it's not due to the lack of a trial, it's not due to anything the developer has done. I've seen pirates requesting free copies of my mods on warez boards before, and that's despite the fact that I have a 30 day change of mind money back guarantee. What possible reason could they have other than that they want it free?

I will point out that I choose not to encode my products, because I personally don't like encoding. But that's my choice, just as it's Anthony's choice to encode his products. And I respect (and think you should too) his choice to do that. Just as I am certain he respects your choice to not buy his product.

(Sorry to use you as an example so much Anthony, I just can't remember who all does encoding nowadays that hasn't bolted in a tanty about the "IP.Commerce" thing. I know NuclearGeneral does too).

[cheatmaster30]

I don't think people who disagree are irrelevant, I think they disagree, and I'm not changing my mind to support them.

Are you sure you haven't been reading journals by Brad Wardell? See this for an example. Anyway, I'd like to point out that for the smaller modders, the pirate group is larger than the purchasing group. Make no mistake.

Part of me says that's a problem you can overcome if you keep working on your product and make it the best it can be.

Copyright laws are useless against sites in Malaysia, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, and dozens of other countries. And, although I hate to say this, reporting them to IPS is pointless. I've never seen IPS move against any of the pirates that actually buy IPB, and believe me there have been complaints in less public areas about it. I'm sure there's some reason, but they don't share with us what that is.

Depends. Maybe abother law can be used? It worked against the Pirate Bay, kind of. Or if you can lure someone to the USA or what not, then they can get arrested there. I'm not a legal expert, but there have been people arrested even for entering countries that their activities abroad broke the law in or something. Not sure whether they'd be silly enough to actually visit a country with said copyright laws though.

The customer most assuredly is not. I'd like to bring your attention to another quote from Brad Wardell. Anyway, I'm sure Anthony does value his customers - but a person having a fit about his choice to encode and refusing to buy his product isn't a customer now, are they? And need I remind you that a lot of us just make mods we think would be cool, and offer them up for others because we think others might benefit. You'll find that in these instances, the developer has a guide in their mind of how the product will work, and the opinion of even the customers is irrelevant to that.

And when something doesn't sell, that's generally why. You can make stuff for yourself and not the customers/users/whatever, but it doesn't sell. It's why many a lot of commercial failures are so, they're things often meant to help the ego and suit the developer rather than user. But it seems there's a growing attitude nowadays of the customer/user and possible audience being irrelevant or idiots.

No.

Lots of assumption there. I hate to tell you this, but more often pirates will pirate the product simply because they don't want to pay - and they'll use "sick of things on the developers part" as a rationalisation. It's not because the product is substandard, it's not due to the lack of a trial, it's not due to anything the developer has done. I've seen pirates requesting free copies of my mods on warez boards before, and that's despite the fact that I have a 30 day change of mind money back guarantee. What possible reason could they have other than that they want it free?

Again, ignore pirates for a minute. You won't get more people buying products by trying to stop them. Said people ain't gonna pay regardless, you might as well ignore them and focus on getting paying customers or just people who use your product legitimately. There's an assumption each pirate is a 'lost sale', except they weren't going to pay in the first place. Ignore them, try and shut down warez sites and focus on what actually matters.

I will point out that I choose not to encode my products, because I personally don't like encoding. But that's my choice, just as it's Anthony's choice to encode his products. And I respect (and think you should too) his choice to do that. Just as I am certain he respects your choice to not buy his product.

(Sorry to use you as an example so much Anthony, I just can't remember who all does encoding nowadays that hasn't bolted in a tanty about the "IP.Commerce" thing. I know NuclearGeneral does too).

Oh, and until your post, I never heard of Brad Wardell. Thanks for the reading suggestion.

[AnthonyKinson]

can't be bothered with a mass quote spree but...

If my servers go down, my apps still work, like i said, my apps are complicated system, not simple hacks to add under developed features, My apps contact the licensing server once every 2 weeks to validate that the license is still active, at which point it automatically updates a local copy of the license key, so its self maintaining with local authentication.

In regards to "customers being king", its not true and completly irrelevant, the developers choose how to develop there apps, the customer chooses wether or not to buy them or not, its up to the developer if they are open to sugestions. I cant walk into the supermarket and demand that they take down the security tag dectors on the doors, its ridiculous, and anyone asking me to take off the encoding is pretty much asking me to do the same thing, and it wont happen. If i lose sales because people dont want it, thats acceptable, but at the same time, i'm preventing piracy and i'm gaining customers from people who may of otherwise downloaded illegal copys without being aware. Not to mention at the same time, because my Applications are controlled, people can are safe knowing that the copy they downloaded is clean and free from malicious code.