Suggestion: allow bulk email to all users / all users in a group

[b0x]

In some circumstances, it would be good to be able to send an email to a user group regardless of their privacy setting. It would be good to have a tick-box in the bulk email section to ignore "Send me any updates sent by the board administrator".

[Michael]

I disagree. Members should always have the option to opt-out of getting bulk emails. If a member says he doesn't want to get bulk emails, and the admin does anyway, then you may quickly start getting "please delete my account" requests.

[bfarber]

We used to have that option. Guess what happened? Admins would tick that box, the members who had validly opted out of receiving said emails reported the site as spam, and entire shared servers would get blacklisted by spam services (spamcop, etc.) because one single administrator on the server decided he didn't wish to honor his member's privacy settings.

No, I disagree. You should not have the right to override your member's selections. Especially when it can (and does) result in an entire server then getting blacklisted, affecting everyone else on the server who does respect their member's selections.

[TheArchon]

Members should always have the option to opt-out of getting bulk emails.

No, not if they have agreed to accept certain or even all mails from the board when they registered. Humans should have the freedom to dispense with their rights if they want to. This is not a thing IPS should dictate to their customers.

If a member says he doesn't want to get bulk emails, and the admin does anyway, then you may quickly start getting "please delete my account" requests.

That would be my problem then. I want to solve my problems myself and I am not in need of someone else to do it.

[Michael]

No, not if they have agreed to accept certain or even all mails from the board when they registered. Humans should have the freedom to dispense with their rights if they want to. This is not a thing IPS should dictate to their customers.

And what if they didn't agree to accept certain emails when they registered? That's what we're talking about here, the option to get bulk emails is something members decide upon when they register, and they can also choose at any time whether or not they still want these. They do have the freedom to dispense with their rights if they want to, it's called opting in to receiving these emails.

That would be my problem then. I want to solve my problems myself and I am not in need of someone else to do it.

Refer to bfarber's post. When sites that do this cause the entire server to become blacklisted as a spam source, then it becomes someone else's problem (the host, other sites on the server, etc.) as well.

[TheArchon]

And what if they didn't agree to accept certain emails when they registered?

And what if they can't? What if they are required to accept emails to use the service offered? Can I switch off that "Accept emails?" question without a mod because it's "accept or leave"?

Refer to bfarber's post. When sites that do this cause the entire server to become blacklisted as a spam source, then it becomes someone else's problem (the host, other sites on the server, etc.) as well.

Still my problem, because I will then be liable for the damage I caused just as in similar cases. I can do a lot of harm to my hosting provider, not sure why IPS wants to protect me from especially this case.

[Wolfie]

And what if they can't? What if they are required to accept emails to use the service offered? Can I switch off that "Accept emails?" question without a mod because it's "accept or leave"?

Just make a few skin edits to remove the option altogether.

Still my problem, because I will then be liable for the damage I caused just as in similar cases. I can do a lot of harm to my hosting provider, not sure why IPS wants to protect me from especially this case.

It's also IPS's reputation that they have to consider. I personally would like to be able to choose when to send out to everyone regardless of the members choice, but primarily for very rare emails that I send out that not only remind people of the site and give an update, but also because any bounced emails let me know which accounts I can deactivate to reduce security risks. However, if IP.Board were to become known for allowing admins to 'spam' people and allowing admins to get servers blacklisted because of it, then some hosting companies may forbid its use on their servers.

[TheArchon]

Just make a few skin edits to remove the option altogether.

The question is not about the difficulty of removing the option. It is about the reasond behind the decision to remove the feature. A lot of answers here have a moral component to them and so I asked myself: "Will IPS future developement be based on what they think should be morally allowed or not"? If the answer was yes, it would be something I could not accept.

However, if IP.Board were to become known for allowing admins to 'spam' people and allowing admins to get servers blacklisted because of it, then some hosting companies may forbid its use on their servers.

This is the rational answer to the question and should have been the official one given. No talk of "you shouldn't do this" or "we want to protect you". They want to protect themselves like any other company. Legitimate but they should tell people this and only this (assuming it is true, but it sounds very reasonable to me).

[bfarber]

Because WE are also a hosting provider, and our own customers on our servers were getting entire servers blacklisted.

At the end of the day, if you are intent, you can modify it back into the code. The code is viewable source. I'd be surprised, really, if a mod isn't released to do it eventually. However it is not an option we wish to promote out of the box.

[b0x]

However it is not an option we wish to promote out of the box.

Fair enough. I agree that it's important to respect the user's privacy settings and to be perfectly honest, I've only sent an email to all my users on two occasions since I started my board more than five years ago. However, when I did there was a very good reason and I haven't received one complaint.

[texterted]

The thing that annoys me, about this lack of Admin control, is on my recent conversion from vBulletin. All of my membership were converted with the option to receive them turned off! So I coudn't send out a newsletter to inform them of the change.

I have it as a condition of registration that you agree to receive Admin emails from time to time. I have only ever sent out one such email in 7 years but I want to reserve the right to do so if I choose.

If you find such a modification b0x, pm me the details please?

[Wolfie]

I could look and try to put together a sql query for you that will turn all of your members on to receive admin emails.

[texterted]

Aye, cheers Wolfie, I have one of those from an earlier gripe thread... ;)

[Wolfie]

Try this:

UPDATE ibf_members SET `allow_admin_mails` = '1' WHERE `allow_admin_mails` = '0';

Change "ibf_" to what your actual forum prefix is. If you have over 5,000 members, then use this one instead:

UPDATE ibf_members SET `allow_admin_mails` = '1' WHERE `allow_admin_mails` = '0' LIMIT 2500;

and just keep running it until you hit all your members.

[texterted]

Thanks mate! :)

[b0x]

If you find such a modification b0x, pm me the details please?

Will do mate.

@Wolfie:
Thanks for the query. :thumbsup:

[SirJeff]

TheArchon, and bOx, no offense intended, but hopefully you'll stay off of my shared server. I've had to deal with the entire server being blacklisted because some idiot wanted to spam his site members. It was a nightmare, and no, it's not just your problem. When my server got blacklisted, topic notifications, PM notifications, daily post summaries, and even registration emails were being blocked from my site WHEN I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. If you want to spam your members, even when they decide that they don't want it, then I feel sorry for every other site on your server.

[TheArchon]

TheArchon, and bOx, no offense intended,

Reading through the rest of your text I must consider this a lie.

but hopefully you'll stay off of my shared server.

Hopefully you won't allow anger to be basis for your next post.

I've had to deal with the entire server being blacklisted because some idiot wanted to spam his site members.

And since you assume that I am one of those people who do this, do you honestly think that the lack of an 'Ignore users' choice' option really prevents me from doing this if i really wanted to? Do you realize that the discussion is (better: was) not about if spamming is bad or not but whether IPS should protect their customers from getting themselves into trouble by removing a feature?

It was a nightmare, and no, it's not just your problem.

It is only a possible problem of yours. And there are many possible problems that I could cause to you. So yes, you are somewhat dependent on me, as far as the security of the website is concerned when we share a host. A good hosting company will of course try everything to minimize these problems but there is no guarantee that someone else on your server won't cause great harm to your site. The question now is (was): Is it IPS's job to fight that risk at the cost of removing an option?

When my server got blacklisted, topic notifications, PM notifications, daily post summaries, and even registration emails were being blocked from my site WHEN I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.

Then you have learned an important lecture in life: Sometimes you suffer from other peoples' malpractise even if you did not anything to enforce it. Sometimes you can hold them liable, sometimes you can't even do that. Your anecdotal experience does not contributes much to the discussion as the question has (once again) never been if spamming can cause great harm. See above regarding the real question that at least I was discussing.

If you want to spam your members, even when they decide that they don't want it, then I feel sorry for every other site on your server.

And if you want to join a debate please actually read what others post. I clearly stated that I would of coures ensure that my members have agreed before sending out the mail(s). Just not through the IB interface but through my terms of service. So I am afraid to say it, but you missed the central topic (which was setteld by the way), and you weren't informed about my intentions but still you decided to accuse me of being a potential spammer that could cause your server being blacklisted.

You did more harm with your post here than me with my mails elsewhere.

[Wolfie]

So I am afraid to say it, but you missed the central topic (which was setteld by the way), and you weren't informed about my intentions but still you decided to accuse me of being a potential spammer that could cause your server being blacklisted.

You did more harm with your post here than me with my mails elsewhere.

No, you missed the topic. The original post was suggesting adding a tick box for sending emails to everyone even if they have chosen not to receive admin emails. Reading the reasoning for removing the option makes sense to me, even though I wish it were still there by default. If you don't like it not being there then add it back.

Simply put, request was made, answer was given, that answer being "no" to adding it back.

[TheArchon]

No, you missed the topic.

I can hardly miss my own topic.

The original post was suggesting adding a tick box for sending emails to everyone even if they have chosen not to receive admin emails.

And I attacked the reason behind the decision to remove that option. That was my topic then, added as a kind of subheading to the original topic.

Reading the reasoning for removing the option makes sense to me, even though I wish it were still there by default.

Too bad that there were several reasons mentioned in this thread, most of which were not convincing to me - and still aren't. However, I accepted one of them and that's why I even wrote that the topic is settled for me. But I am sure you will leave out such details the next time you summerize this thread.

If you don't like it not being there then add it back.

"Great" advice, given that I neither expressed my need for help with this nor continued to insist on IPS re-introducing the option. So much for missing the point. ;)

Simply put, request was made, answer was given, that answer being "no" to adding it back.

Simply put, your post didn't add anything relevant to my dispute with SirJeff.

[Wolfie]

In some circumstances, it would be good to be able to send an email to a user group regardless of their privacy setting. It would be good to have a tick-box in the bulk email section to ignore "Send me any updates sent by the board administrator".

I can hardly miss my own topic.

The original post, thus the original topic is quoted above you. As in, this is not your topic. :thumbsup:

And I attacked the reason behind the decision to remove that option. That was my topic then, added as a kind of subheading to the original topic.

Still not "your" topic. You simply continued the discussion with relevant material. Otherwise, your argument can be applied against you when SirJeff made his post. You made a post that bordered on rudeness when you replied, nothing more.

Too bad that there were several reasons mentioned in this thread, most of which were not convincing to me - and still aren't. However, I accepted one of them and that's why I even wrote that the topic is settled for me. But I am sure you will leave out such details the next time you summerize this thread.

Yeah the one you accepted was posted by me. Who's the one leaving out details now?

"Great" advice, given that I neither expressed my need for help with this nor continued to insist on IPS re-introducing the option. So much for missing the point. ;)

You're the one complaining about wanting to make your own decisions, I provided a solution to your dilemma. Get a grip.

Simply put, your post didn't add anything relevant to my dispute with SirJeff.

I don't recall this being a private conversation nor the topic being created by you, much less created by you with the understanding that it is a dispute/debate between just the two of you. In other words, your subtle hint for me to "butt out" is clearly out of place here.

If you're looking for a fight, look elsewhere. I'm telling it like it is and if you don't like it, that's not my problem.

The request was made then denied. The reason was questioned and answered. Now you're just doing this...

[emsonline]

spam (spām)
n. Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam

User signs up, they should expect emails. It is communication between a member and the admin of the site.

[Klisis]

spam (spām)

n. [color="#FF0000"]Unsolicited [/color]e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent [color="#FF0000"]indiscriminately [/color]to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam

As if people care what a dictionary says ...

These days, people have very low tolerance regarding spams and will report in an instant if they receive any unwanted e-mails. I've had my server blacklisted once, and it was pure nightmare. I replaced my IP address instead of trying to solve it.

These days, I don't even dare sending any sort of "bulk" e-mails anymore.

[Mediamage]

I have a free membership forum and state right up front that if you want to be on our forum, you must accept emails from admin from time to time. If you don't want the emails, then delete your membership with us. How do I override the option to email my members if they have that shut off or delete them from my forum? It's an either/or in my opinion with my site. If I'm going to give them tons of free resources, the least they can do is accept my email once a week from the board admin to current activities going on.

[bfarber]

You cannot override their selection when sending a bulk mail.