Live Chat module for Cloud clients

[WebCMS]

Please provide the Live Chat module (at least for Cloud clients) by reusing your continual bi-directional communication using NodeJS used in Live Topics, Live Notifications, Who is Typing, Who else is Here?, etc.

The AJAX Chat app options are not scaling because they open a new connection for each user, process and continually poll the service and crashing the site frequently making it not look like cloud hosting.

Please confirm if this is added to your Roadmap.

Edited April 14 by WebCMS

[WebCMS]

CORRECTION: The AJAX Chat apps work and scale fine but the IC cloud hosting has limitations on how many requests can be made per second and results in blocked requests and page load errors. AJAX Chat apps work fine on self-hosted environments without any issues.

Please consider adding a Live Chat module (at least for Cloud clients).

[Marc]

On 4/14/2024 at 7:57 AM, WebCMS said:

Please confirm if this is added to your Roadmap.

We do not publish roadmaps for the product. Posting in here is the correct thing to do, and if things like this are to be added, you would see them appear in blogs

[Jelly Belly™]

11 hours ago, WebCMS said:

Please consider adding a Live Chat module (at least for Cloud clients).

 

I get asked about 5 times a week since Invision chat was discontinued when is the chat room coming back
it was an important part of the site, was busy 24/7 and a lot of my regulars just drifted away so I'd love to be able to replace it and had hoped the live chat mod would be a solution but its seems its not possible on cloud

[SC36DC]

When V5 launches, I’m planning to start a new community and hope to bring in people currently using Facebook Groups, X, Reddit. V5 already has some strong advantages over those platforms. Adding a Live Chat feature would also help connect with the Discord community.

[Matt]

We have intentionally not added a live chat feature, at least not yet. It would be fairly simple to do as we have the same functionality for live topics.

However, Live Chat can drain away content from your forum and make what could be useful rich topics for future people (and Google/SEO) to enjoy more vapid and disposable. 

Our solution was Live Topics which gave you a time limited chat feature that can convert into a normal topic upon completion so that content isn't lost.

I think the case for live chat as a constant companion is weak honestly. If you have a really busy forum then you do not need an extra place for people to talk, and if you have a really quiet forum, you won't have enough people in a live chat area at the same time to do anything constructive.

Chat boxes used to be a popular add-on but in most cases, it was generally populated with "Hello?" messages from weeks ago. If people want to chat, they're going to do it via a well trodden path in their routine, that could be Discord, WhatsApp or snapchat. They're unlikely to deviate from these routines because of a chat box on a forum they may visit daily or weekly.

This is why we built Live Topics. It gives you an event based platform that people will make time for to come together for a short fixed time to discuss a topic live.

[SC36DC]

13 hours ago, Matt said:

If you have a really busy forum then you do not need an extra place for people to talk, and if you have a really quiet forum, you won't have enough people in a live chat area at the same time to do anything constructive.

Excellent points. You are absolutely correct. Thank you for pointing this out. 

[WebCMS]

14 hours ago, Matt said:

We have intentionally not added a live chat feature, at least not yet. It would be fairly simple to do as we have the same functionality for live topics.

However, Live Chat can drain away content from your forum and make what could be useful rich topics for future people (and Google/SEO) to enjoy more vapid and disposable. 

Our solution was Live Topics which gave you a time limited chat feature that can convert into a normal topic upon completion so that content isn't lost.

I think the case for live chat as a constant companion is weak honestly. If you have a really busy forum then you do not need an extra place for people to talk, and if you have a really quiet forum, you won't have enough people in a live chat area at the same time to do anything constructive.

Chat boxes used to be a popular add-on but in most cases, it was generally populated with "Hello?" messages from weeks ago. If people want to chat, they're going to do it via a well trodden path in their routine, that could be Discord, WhatsApp or snapchat. They're unlikely to deviate from these routines because of a chat box on a forum they may visit daily or weekly.

This is why we built Live Topics. It gives you an event based platform that people will make time for to come together for a short fixed time to discuss a topic live.

Agree with you on some of these points. Chat content is private data between 2 people, should not be exposed to search engines for indexing and hence not valuable to the site in any way.

Here are some validations in Chat's favor -

Chat is chat and does have its uses and value. Otherwise, Teams, Zoom, WebEx and other conference apps won't be having chat modules built-in.

Chat is used for quick, back-n-forth messages (mostly insignificant, unimportant small talk) and not suited for PMs or Topics and not meant for being catalogued or indexed for searches later. PM on an IC site is like "email" and cannot considered as chat.

Users know when something is worth sharing with the entire forum, they would rather post it as a Topic for everyone to see than chat with just one or two people. But when the matter is relevant only between a couple of people, chat is more ideal - when both users are available simultaneously (which is less frequent), otherwise it becomes like a PM (email).

At times, people ask another user in a topic irrelevant things like, "Hey, how did your trip to Mexico go?" and the topic get side-tracked that could have occurred ideally inside a private Chat between them. They know it is irrelevant to the topic but they also don't know how else to communicate with the other person privately and quickly in the absence of Chat module.

Chat is more useful on sites with more users but Chat module will also attract more new users!

Live Topics has its uses and value too. However, some of the small talk clutter during Live Topics like "Hi", "Thanks", "Ok", etc. would get posted as individual comment records which are insignificant (I haven't used Live Topics yet but assume this is how it gets converted into a topic).

Chat app can be offered as an app like many other apps inside IC that can be deployed with its switch turned OFF and site operators could turn it on/off as they see fit after monitoring its effectiveness.

More time spent by users on the site is better for analytics reducing the Bounce Rate rather than driving them to an external site like Discord, WhatsApp, etc. for chat and losing that activity to another site. I don't know anybody's WhatsApp or SnapChat ID on this forum as users are mostly anonymous on online forums and not all forums are same.

At the end of the day, Chat is just an extra convenience for users and it will keep them on the site much longer.

Since Chat data is private, not indexed and not valuable to the site, it needs to be purged periodically at least once a month or based on a setting in ACP to also keep it performant optimally.

When a user expects a feature in a software and s/he finds it in the software, that makes it a successful software.

You can scroll down in our article for Chat communication method -

https://www.telugus.com/articles/effective-communication-methods

[WebCMS]

Actually, I found this sentence somewhere decades ago (it's not mine 😀) -

"When a user expects a feature in a software and s/he finds it in the software, that makes it a successful software"

Now doing an online search for it still finds it in Gen AI on the top of Google search -

"Yes, when a user expects a feature in a software and actually finds it implemented within the software, it significantly contributes to the software being considered successful, as it demonstrates that the developers accurately understood and addressed the user's needs and expectations, fulfilling a key aspect of usability and functionality."

https://www.google.com/search?q=When+a+user+expects+a+feature+in+a+software+and+s%2Fhe+finds+it+in+the+software%2C+that+makes+it+a+successful+software

 

[WebCMS]

Not sure what happened but my new comment went into moderation 😀 -

Posted just now · Hidden - This content must be approved before it can be edited.

Edited Saturday at 01:13 AM by WebCMS

[SC36DC]

21 hours ago, WebCMS said:

Agree with you on some of these points. Chat content is private data between 2 people, should not be exposed to search engines for indexing and hence not valuable to the site in any way.

Here are some validations in Chat's favor -

Chat is chat and does have its uses and value. Otherwise, Teams, Zoom, WebEx and other conference apps won't be having chat modules built-in.

Chat is used for quick, back-n-forth messages (mostly insignificant, unimportant small talk) and not suited for PMs or Topics and not meant for being catalogued or indexed for searches later. PM on an IC site is like "email" and cannot considered as chat.

Users know when something is worth sharing with the entire forum, they would rather post it as a Topic for everyone to see than chat with just one or two people. But when the matter is relevant only between a couple of people, chat is more ideal - when both users are available simultaneously (which is less frequent), otherwise it becomes like a PM (email).

At times, people ask another user in a topic irrelevant things like, "Hey, how did your trip to Mexico go?" and the topic get side-tracked that could have occurred ideally inside a private Chat between them. They know it is irrelevant to the topic but they also don't know how else to communicate with the other person privately and quickly in the absence of Chat module.

Chat is more useful on sites with more users but Chat module will also attract more new users!

Live Topics has its uses and value too. However, some of the small talk clutter during Live Topics like "Hi", "Thanks", "Ok", etc. would get posted as individual comment records which are insignificant (I haven't used Live Topics yet but assume this is how it gets converted into a topic).

Chat app can be offered as an app like many other apps inside IC that can be deployed with its switch turned OFF and site operators could turn it on/off as they see fit after monitoring its effectiveness.

More time spent by users on the site is better for analytics reducing the Bounce Rate rather than driving them to an external site like Discord, WhatsApp, etc. for chat and losing that activity to another site. I don't know anybody's WhatsApp or SnapChat ID on this forum as users are mostly anonymous on online forums and not all forums are same.

At the end of the day, Chat is just an extra convenience for users and it will keep them on the site much longer.

Since Chat data is private, not indexed and not valuable to the site, it needs to be purged periodically at least once a month or based on a setting in ACP to also keep it performant optimally.

When a user expects a feature in a software and s/he finds it in the software, that makes it a successful software.

You can scroll down in our article for Chat communication method -

https://www.telugus.com/articles/effective-communication-methods

All excellent points, now I want the chat feature again.. LOL.

I'm curious, WebCMS. Would a third-party chat feature suffice, or do you want a built-in solution?

[WebCMS]

1 hour ago, SC36DC said:

All excellent points, now I want the chat feature again.. LOL.

I'm curious, WebCMS. Would a third-party chat feature suffice, or do you want a built-in solution?

On IC Cloud (CiC), apps using AJAX chat will have the site crashing frequently due to “number of requests per minute limitation” on CiC - it happened on our site frequently and we had to uninstall the app (a built-in solution reusing the same NodeJS continuous bidirectional communication would not have issues).

If you are self hosted, 3rd party Chat apps should work fine. You can use Chatbox+ app which has great features.

 

Edited Saturday at 11:00 PM by WebCMS

[SC36DC]

10 minutes ago, WebCMS said:

a built-in solution reusing the same NodeJS continuous bidirectional communication would not have issues

You mention this. Does this mean it's possible for a developer to create a chat app in this method, or is this something that has to be built-in?

I am also a Cloud user.

[WebCMS]

1 hour ago, SC36DC said:

You mention this. Does this mean it's possible for a developer to create a chat app in this method, or is this something that has to be built-in?

I am also a Cloud user.

Maybe a developer could host NodeJS somewhere and use it in their chat app in some way but I'm not sure. For self-hosted sites, no worries as they can use the Chatbox+ app.

The good news is (as per Matt), they already have the functionality (in Live Topics, live/instant notifications, Who else is here, Who is typing, etc) and could implement it quickly and easily reusing the same functionality. It's just a matter of convincing the team with the pros of Chat module.

My other comment that is still in moderation (trying again without the google search link as the link appears to have hit the link filters and got highlighted in red) -

Actually, I found this sentence somewhere decades ago (it's not mine 😀) -

"When a user expects a feature in a software and s/he finds it in the software, that makes it a successful software"

Now doing an online search for it still finds it in Gen AI on the top of Google search -

"Yes, when a user expects a feature in a software and actually finds it implemented within the software, it significantly contributes to the software being considered successful, as it demonstrates that the developers accurately understood and addressed the user's needs and expectations, fulfilling a key aspect of usability and functionality."

[Joel R]

23 minutes ago, WebCMS said:

It's just a matter of convincing the team with the pros of Chat module

I'm not IPS so this is simply an outside observation, but they are convinced of the pros.  And convinced of the cons.  

Which is why they built Live Topics, which is their answer to Chat.  

[teraßyte]

Live Topics is already their answer to a "chat approach" so I don't think we'll ever see anything "chat-only" later.

 

Additionally, there used to be an IP.Chat application in the past (for v3), but as you can see it's not around anymore. I doubt they'll ever bring back something they already decided wasn't worth it before. 🙄

[WebCMS]

But Live Topics are scheduled right?

[Jim M]

On 11/15/2024 at 7:36 PM, WebCMS said:

Users know when something is worth sharing with the entire forum, they would rather post it as a Topic for everyone to see than chat with just one or two people.

Would disagree with this. Communities I've been a part of, especially when we were back in the old day of IP.Chat available and today with shoutboxes, members would ask worthwhile questions in chat, and they become lost forever. So much so, on my own communities, I had to post warnings on the page telling them to create a topic for any questions on their cars (being a car site). Then completely disabled IP.Chat entirely due to members not understanding the differences.

Even for a brief period here, we had chat enable and people went in to ask questions about their community for support.

The more avenues you offer for discussion, the more you are downgrading the long-term content options which take thought in putting forth and people will gravitate towards the "easy" non-thought provoking one.

On 11/15/2024 at 7:36 PM, WebCMS said:

Chat is chat and does have its uses and value. Otherwise, Teams, Zoom, WebEx and other conference apps won't be having chat modules built-in.

Kind of a separate use case for these players as they are more private focused and not entirely based on marketing their clients' content but communication between colleagues. Unlike, a community, where you're not selling content, but it is pretty much your product to offer and market to get more members.

We understand the usefulness of chat, as we use Slack as a company but still use an internal community for a knowledgebase, product discussion, and project management. Think in the terms of community, as Matt mentioned, chat is weak and potentially pulling content away from the community's usefulness.

[Marc]

On 11/17/2024 at 12:19 AM, WebCMS said:

"Yes, when a user expects a feature in a software and actually finds it implemented within the software, it significantly contributes to the software being considered successful, as it demonstrates that the developers accurately understood and addressed the user's needs and expectations, fulfilling a key aspect of usability and functionality."

It's worth pointing out, just because its something you and a few others would like within the software, doesnt mean everyone does. It also doesnt mean its where everyone would rather us spend our time.

The development time we have is a finite resource. Therefore we always try to spend that resource wisely, to achieve the best product that we can. Both that serves the needs of the majority of our business, and the is in line with the goals of our company. After all, I'm sure a lot of people would like to see a built in email client that connects to their own email, and photoshop built in, so they can have everything in one place too! (tip. We're probably not going to do that).

Chat is something we have had within the platform previously, and removed. Its also something that a few modification developers have created and since abandoned. Which in my opinion speaks volumes. If I can offer you a counter quote

Quote

The definition of insanity is -- doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[SC36DC]

On 11/17/2024 at 6:55 AM, Jim M said:

The more avenues you offer for discussion, the more you are downgrading the long-term content options which take thought in putting forth and people will gravitate towards the "easy" non-thought provoking one.

Man, you’re really proving your point with this statement. It’s also making me see the LIVE TOPICS feature as a potentially more fun and usable option. Hosting a scheduled LIVE CHAT where people can come together and just chat, then saving it as a topic, sounds like a great compromise and idea. I just wish the number of LIVE TOPICS allowed was double its current limit.

For example, the Creator plan could allow 2 per month (scheduling one twice a month seems ideal), and the Creator Pro plan could allow 4. What are your thoughts on this? For someone looking to create a musical group fandom forum with fans from all over the world, one chat could be scheduled for U.S. residents and the other for international fans. Since there isn’t a consistent Chat feature, would this be an option IC might consider—doubling the Live Topics allowed per month?

On a related note, slightly off-topic, is there a breakdown available that explains the differences between Page Builder Basics and Page Builder Full Access?

Thank you!

 

[Daniel F]

30 minutes ago, SC36DC said:

On a related note, slightly off-topic, is there a breakdown available that explains the differences between Page Builder Basics and Page Builder Full Access?

You can get the full list by clicking on it

[SC36DC]

5 minutes ago, Daniel F said:

You can get the full list by clicking on it

Thank you so much.

[Jelly Belly™]

The removal of the old IP Chat service pretty much killed my site for months and its never got back to previous levels, it was a really popular part of the site, nobody got confused between live chat and the forums, the chat really was just for social which is what I thought the whole point of running a niche community ?

Even now all these years later we still get at least half a dozen queries  a week asking when I'm bringing live chat back

As its already been said that it wouldn't be difficult to reintegrate then why not offer us the option, either as a stand alone cloud extra or into the cloud packages ?

I'd gladly swap the Live Topic which serve no purpose that I can see for a Live Chat that the members loved

[WebCMS]

17 hours ago, Jelly Belly™ said:

it was a really popular part of the site, nobody got confused between live chat and the forums, the chat really was just for social which is what I thought the whole point of running a niche community ? Even now all these years later we still get at least half a dozen queries  a week asking when I'm bringing live chat back

As its already been said that it wouldn't be difficult to reintegrate then why not offer us the option, either as a stand alone cloud extra or into the cloud packages ?

I'd gladly swap the Live Topic which serve no purpose that I can see for a Live Chat that the members loved

That's because not all forums are same. Some forums are really tech-savvy and users know exactly how to use a public forum for sharing something with everyone vs private chat limited to just a couple of users. Site admins could have the option to turn off the chat app at any time.

[Day_]

Former IP Chat user here, adding what was my use case and why Live Topics isn’t a perfect replacement.

Football forum, soccer to you Americans. 

We would turn chat on around an hour before the game, then turn it off after the game had finished, was never left on permanently.

Offered that real time chat between fans as the game was happening. Some listened by radio, others watched streams, then we had some that were simply following the game by the chat. At times I seem to recall we could have maybe 100 people in there and was a nice little atmosphere, when we were winning at least.

No refreshing the page to see if anyone has replied. We can’t use Ajax page loads due to adverts, doesn’t play nice with them. 

Now it’s gone, we have reverted to an old fashioned topic, refreshing the page. Adds views, extra ad revenue, however the user experience isn’t the same and I get questions every few months, can we have chat despite making it clear it simply doesn’t exist anymore. I would take the revenue hit for the user experience for those couple of hours.

Live Topics look great for webinars, fantastic feature. The way it converts to a topic after would be perfect for us!

We wouldn’t have a video though, nor are we looking to answer questions by approving every comment to reply. Not only that, even if we could somehow make it work for us by changing the language strings on the page and having someone sat there just approving every post as it happens, we’re limited to just 2 live topics a month with Creator Pro.

Our club can play 2 games a week. It’s an extra $80 a month to get 10 live topics.

I’m not complaining about the prices, they are what they are, you either pay it or you don’t and for me personally, to get an additional 8 live topics for $80 isn’t worth it for me. Granted you get more storage etc. I’m just looking at the sole reason of why I would be upgrading.

Would I love to see IP Chat back? Absolutely, I just don’t see it happening, not sure I’ve seen a decision reversed so it’s a take it on the chin and move on for me personally.