Outdated IPS CSS Framework

[Joy Rex]

1 hour ago, Rikki said:

I believe this is on our internal roadmap.

Thanks for that kind comment. Our main website (which is easier to develop for, since we have full control over it) uses BEM, LESS, Bootstrap 4's grid and is mobile-first. That should give some insight to the kind of approaches we want to take in 5. How far we can go will depend on how much backwards compatibility we plan to have, and that's a discussion we haven't had yet. If anyone has any thoughts on that aspect, feel free to share it ? 

RE: Backwards compatibility - I think with each major version (especially in how much time there is between them) you should strive for moving forward, and not focus on making sure older stuff works. What inevitably happens with trying to maintain outdated methods, standards, and code is the software becomes bloated at best, and at worst issues crop up due to trying to support previous versions.

I also think mobile-first (just like Bootstrap 4) should be the priority with 5 (if possible, perhaps 4.5) as it's pretty safe to assume the majority of users access sites via their mobile device. It would also silence some of the folks begging for a mobile app, which really isn't practical for this kind of application/suite.

Another area I think would go a long way in making the suite even more attractive is if Pages could lean towards more UI-driven page creation, while still allowing those of us who like to get "under the hood" to do so. This would allow non-technical customers (or ones that just want to quickly build a site with a forum) to do so easily "out of the box".

Maybe even merging Pages and Forum together (from an application perspective) so Forum is essentially built on Pages, allowing for all sorts of interactions between a site and the forum portion.

[Rikki]

2 minutes ago, Joy Rex said:

RE: Backwards compatibility - I think with each major version (especially in how much time there is between them) you should strive for moving forward, and not focus on making sure older stuff works. What inevitably happens with trying to maintain outdated methods, standards, and code is the software becomes bloated at best, and at worst issues crop up due to trying to support previous versions.

That's my gut feeling too. If IPS5 is going to serve us for the next X years, it's the best opportunity to bring our framework up to 2018+ standards. That'd include mobile-first, but that's not a change I'd be willing to make in a point release - it's too invasive.

We have lots of plans for Pages too (and, coincidentally, a lot of that would be dependent on a more flexible CSS framework too).

[Joel R]

9 hours ago, opentype said:

I don’t think anyone is doubting this. The problem is that all the blame is put on IPS. Admins pick crappy shared hosting, install complex themes with huge background images, put gallery widgets and 5 ad slots loading external content on the front page and then they complain that their site is loading too slow – but apparently IPS is too blame, since some online checkers say there is render-blocking. That’s just not reasonable. You can indeed have super fast IPS sites without messing with the CSS loading in any way. 

But that's the order of blame based upon years of time-tested client research.  It goes something like: 

The Proper Order of Who to Yell At? 

1. IPS

2. Google

3. Keyboard Cat

4. The world and all of it's injustices

5. IPS Tier 1

6. IPS Tier 2 and 3

7. Host

8. Europe and GDPR

9. Lindy

10. Me

 

If you follow this order, remember that you can always yell at Lindy before you accept any personal responsibility.  I like to think that he's bald already, so there's no more hair for him to lose.  

[Tripp★]

13 minutes ago, Joel R said:

9. Lindy

I can't yell at Lindy. Everytime I see his face in his avatar, it just... Makes me smile. It's infectious. I suspect that's why it was set as such, to stop people yelling at him. ?

[Charles]

18 minutes ago, Tripp★ said:

I can't yell at Lindy. Everytime I see his face in his avatar, it just... Makes me smile. It's infectious. I suspect that's why it was set as such, to stop people yelling at him. ?

Well that ruined my day.

[Rikki]

27 minutes ago, Tripp★ said:

I can't yell at Lindy. Everytime I see his face in his avatar, it just... Makes me smile. It's infectious. I suspect that's why it was set as such, to stop people yelling at him. ?

[Joel R]

Is that the original photo?? 

You need to offer limited-edition prints to all clients and Marketplace designers (looking at you @ehren.) who complain about the IPS CSS framework.  

They can literally complain all day long to Lindy's face.  Relieves tension.  Gets client feedback out in a honest dialogue.  Gets two thumbs up from Lindy for their idea.  Etc etc.  

[Rikki]

We have a whole range of Lindy reaction images for every conceivable mood, though I won't be sharing any others ? 

[-FP]

8 minutes ago, Rikki said:

We have a whole range of Lindy reaction images for every conceivable mood, though I won't be sharing any others ? 

My boss sends reaction pictures (sometimes videos) of himself on the company's internal rocket chat. He's the passive-aggressive type of guy so you know when he's pissed through these reactions and it's kinda funny...

[TSP]

Maybe it’s just me, but to me IPS already feels mobile friendly, and mobile first. Please don’t do the mistake many do when doing mobile first, like having a mobile menu on desktop.

[Marc]

22 minutes ago, TSP said:

like having a mobile menu on desktop.

Urgh

[Lisownik]

Oh, my topic is very controversial, I like it ? When can we expect Invision Community 5 at the earliest? 2019? 2020?

[DesignzShop]

2 hours ago, Rikki said:

Wait till Lindy sees you sneaked a screen of that!!  ? 

[Rikki]

50 minutes ago, TSP said:

Maybe it’s just me, but to me IPS already feels mobile friendly, and mobile first. Please don’t do the mistake many do when doing mobile first, like having a mobile menu on desktop.

That's not really mobile first to be honest - at least not in this context. It's more about making the core CSS styles right on mobile, and then using media queries to adjust them for tablet & desktop. Right now, we do the opposite for various reasons.

[Woodsman]

12 hours ago, ehren. said:

Is the css framework outdated? Yes, absolutely. As mentioned by Charles above, it was coded 4 years ago which is ancient in terms of web coding practices, especially front-end. 

Actually @Charles was just a wee bit mistaken in the time line. 4 years ago 4.0 was introduced. In 2016 4.2 came out with a new framework. 4.3 this framework was improved upon. So no it is not quite 4 years.

 

14 hours ago, asigno said:

Of course it can, but not everyone is a developer nor has the time or rationale to learn. Also this is not open source software, it's a paid platform. IPB have a fantastic team of developers who can easily do this, I assume it just hasn't been prioritised to date. But if site owners are wanting to continue to get organic traffic from the likes of Google, it's critical these issues are addressed soon.

Are you saying anyone with absolutely No Knowledge of the IPS structure should be able to create a theme or a plugin for their site or to sell? Hmmmm.... I see Support going into Over Time.

As far as IPS not being open source and a paid platform.... This is correct. If they were to go with open source files as with a Bootstrap frame work for example there are GPU guidelines and permissions to consider on how these frameworks can be used legally as well. Most  open source projects strictly state you can use them free of charge and also state you are not to charge for their use.

[Rikki]

5 minutes ago, Woodsman said:

In 2016 4.2 came out with a new framework. 4.3 this framework was improved upon. So no it is not quite 4 years.

4.2 didn't have a new framework, just a slight design refresh.

[Woodsman]

Are you Sure????....

 

Kidding.

Funny I had quite a few extreme modification between my 4.0 to 4.1 and 4.2 themes. But if you say so I can't argue.... 

[TSP]

1 hour ago, Rikki said:

That's not really mobile first to be honest - at least not in this context. It's more about making the core CSS styles right on mobile, and then using media queries to adjust them for tablet & desktop. Right now, we do the opposite for various reasons.

Yeah, I know. I just feel like so many "modern designs" just go all-in on mobile, where they simply make everything bigger on desktop, even the mobile menu icon, but doesn't actually utilize the advantages of desktop size. It's like they do "Mobile only" instead. 

[Woodsman]

4 hours ago, Rikki said:

Wow you found one after Lindy lost his hair....

[Ilya Hoilik]

4 hours ago, Rikki said:

It's time to update my macOS wallpaper

[Joy Rex]

I think the IPS5 framework should be called Lindy ?

[Lindy]

Remember that time Rikki worked here? Me too. Dark days... glad those are behind us. 

[Linguica]

I'm not thrilled at even the far-off prospect of having to redo my theme under a potential IPS5, but if it supports use of a CSS preprocessor like Less or Sass where I can define my site's main color scheme and it will programmatically generate the appropriate variations on those colors, then it'll be worth it.

[Woodsman]

4 hours ago, Lindy said:

Remember that time Rikki worked here? Me too. Dark days... glad those are behind us. 

Speaking of Dark days... He gave me nightmares in 4.0 of a globalTemplate.phtml and CSS rules crawling under the bed, coming out of the closet then slipping through the cracks in the walls.... But I came up with a fix for that.

 

 

[newbie LAC]

13 hours ago, Rikki said:

I found another picture

Find 10 differences