Does IPS do anything to stimulate 3rd party addon development

[Alfa1]

It seems to me that the development of addons by third parties is way behind vbulletins and thereby IPS its weak spot. But I am a newbie here, so I may be missing things.

This makes me wonder what IPS does to stimulate the development of addons? I did notice that the coding of IPB has been greatly improved to accommodate plugins. But other than that?

Does IPS do anything to increase coding quality of addons?

[.Nuno.]

Hi,

I'm a vB user (yet) from some time now and planning thinks to switch in September but from the tests I made I can tell you that most of the features you need from a mod are already there for IPB.

I don't follow vB very often now, but what does vB do stimulate mod development?

Does IPS do anything to increase coding quality of addons?

This is a strange questions from someone that cames from vB :D

[Mark]

From a programatic standpoint, IP.Board is broken into applications, a third party developer can write new functionality in the same way that we develop internally. We also support hooks so that existing functionality can be added to or overriden. Generally speaking, most things developers would want to do can be done without file edits using applications and hooks.
We have developer documentation describing the theory, and phpDoc style code level documentation of our API classes.

From a community and support standpoint, we allow mod authors to distribute their modifications (free or paid) on this site which are reviewed by the resource team, and have a special forum for contributors should they need to ask questions (which our developers frequent).


Is there anything specific you feel could be improved on? Generally speaking, I think we're as much involved as we can be :)

[Alfa1]

You could accommodate for clients to find coders, and add a rating/review system that allows clients/coders to leave their rating of the other. Similar to what ebay/scriptlance do.

You could give reviewed addons a stamp of approval, to help coders and increase client trust. Does the resource team review the code of each addon, to filter out problematic addons and bad code?

Something else you could do is contact coding companies and interest them for creating IPB addons.

Do you think the docs are extensive enough, so that coders who are new to IPB can easily code high quality addons? If you are not sure, then this would be worth while investing in.

[Alex K.]

Do you think the docs are extensive enough, so that coders who are new to IPB can easily code high quality addons? If you are not sure, then this would be worth while investing in.

From what I'm seen, the docs are good enough that anyone skilled with object-oriented PHP should have no problem learning how to code for IPB.

[Collin1000]

I just want to throw this in here:

I think that, as a modder, (iArcade) IPS has treated me wonderfuly. Charles, the CEO of IPS, has done more than I could have asked in terms of helping us out in whatever way he could.

So, personally, I think IPS does a great job with modders.

[BRamburn]

I just want to throw this in here:

I think that, as a modder, (iArcade) IPS has treated me wonderfuly. Charles, the CEO of IPS, has done more than I could have asked in terms of helping us out in whatever way he could.

So, personally, I think IPS does a great job with modders.

Retweet! lol
no seriously based on development from 2.0 all the way to 3.1 the development process is much easier as they integrate everything via application folders. There are loads of hooks.

However I've seen a great deal of people losing interest in developing for either VB and IPB, well that's my perspective on it. Maybe its lack of creativity, however I have been working on a new product and it hasn't been done on IPB yet.

[Mark]

You could accommodate for clients to find coders, and add a rating/review system that allows clients/coders to leave their rating of the other. Similar to what ebay/scriptlance do.

For custom programming, we did actually try that. Unfortunately, it was not widely used.
We now have a category in our directory for resource sites, which you can rate: http://community.invisionpower.com/links/category/9-ips-software-resources/ we also recommend people on a case-by-case basis (or occasionally take on projects ourself) if we are approached about custom programming.

You could give reviewed addons a stamp of approval, to help coders and increase client trust. Does the resource team review the code of each addon, to filter out problematic addons and bad code?

They don't read every line of code (which would be impractical) but they check it does what it says. We also have a system whereby you can report "broken" downloads to flag our attention.

Do you think the docs are extensive enough, so that coders who are new to IPB can easily code high quality addons? If you are not sure, then this would be worth while investing in.

I actually refer to the developer documentation daily when writing addons.

Of course, you have to have a strong knowledge of PHP to understand what they're talking about, but they are extensive and straight-forward enough that anyone should be able to take the "START HERE" article (for applications / for hooks) and work through it without hassle.

[Mike54]

Alfa1, it's difficult for someone coming from vBulletin and the tons of mods at .org to see the modding community art IPB. It seems as if IPB is somehow light years behind vB, because the number of mods is tiny by comparison. That thought would also be erroneous.

When you can see beyond what you think is a shortcoming, you realize the need for a lot of mods just doesn't exist. IPB's native code already offers a lot of features and functions you would have to mod vB to accomplish.

Speaking only for myself, that is one of the IPB features I really like. I don't have to add this plugin or modify that template, every time I turn around. And when you don't have the need for a lot of mods, you don't have the worry about one mod being compatible with another. Nor do I have the horror of watching a mod author disappear in the middle of the night, leaving his paid script unsupported and his customers clamoring for support. (I know that will strike a chord with you. Whatever became of that train wreck, did it remain abandoned? I was so happy I had decided to use the competitor's offering instead.) Charles is laughing at me, seeing how tortured I am waiting for IP.Nexus to be released. But the wait will be worth it to me, because I know Nexus will integrate well with my forums and I will be able to get IPS' top-notch support if any issues crop up. Which isn't to say the people in the IPB modding community are offering mods of questionable quality of are offering poor support. But there is no real need to try to make a bridge work so I can use WordPress or Joomla, when I know IP.Board and IP.Content are going to work right out of the box.

When someone would ask how to accomplish something at the vB.com site, one of the support staff would generally respond by suggesting the person try at vB.org for a mod. And we all know the flip-side of that coin well, don't we? Because when you had a problem with a forum function, the first question was to ask if the board had been modified. And then it would be something like, "Sorry, we don't support modified boards."

Here, if enough people show interest in a new function, a few days later one of the IPS devs will submit a blog post to announce the function is being tested for a later release. Invision listens to its customers, quite the opposite of what you are used to seeing. Back in November, a handful of us were expressing desire in seeing someone developing an SEO script for IPB. IPS heard what we were saying and my IPB sites now see more traffic, have higher rankings and earn more revenue than they ever did with the other forum software using the paid SEO add-on. There was only one paid SEO script available for IPB and that developer has thrown in the towel. When there is no need for SEO add-ons, why bother writing mods for it?

Between the official add-on options available from IPS adn the modifications available in the Resources section of this site, I don't miss a single thing since my conversion from vB. Keep a clear mind and remember Invision Power Board is not vBulletiin (or vice-versa) and I think you'll be very pleased with what you discover here.

[Alfa1]

Do you provide a listing of addon coders, skin designers and integrated software?

For custom programming, we did actually try that. Unfortunately, it was not widely used.

We now have a category in our directory for resource sites, which you can rate: http://community.invisionpower.com/links/category/9-ips-software-resources/ we also recommend people on a case-by-case basis (or occasionally take on projects ourself) if we are approached about custom programming.

I think such a rating system would only be widely used, if there is a large modding community. But large modding communities either have this function or have demand for rating functions. I think such functions are one important factor that would allow the IPS addon community to grow.

Thanks for your explanation

Alfa1, it's difficult for someone coming from vBulletin and the tons of mods at .org to see the modding community art IPB. It seems as if IPB is somehow light years behind vB, because the number of mods is tiny by comparison. That thought would also be erroneous.

When you can see beyond what you think is a shortcoming, you realize the need for a lot of mods just doesn't exist. IPB's native code already offers a lot of features and functions you would have to mod vB to accomplish.

Yes, I realize that and it certainly is why IPS is ahead of the game now. But that still leaves room for 90% of the functionality that mods on vb.org and commercial vb mods offer. I use 60 addons now and have need for 60 more. For IPS I would need less addons than 120, but it seems most functionality would have to be custom coded.

I don't have to add this plugin or modify that template, every time I turn around. And when you don't have the need for a lot of mods, you don't have the worry about one mod being compatible with another.

Yes, thats why I aks about quality control. An addon community is great, but without quality control it causes havoc. I'm currently having the addons I use checked for problems and fixed.

Nor do I have the horror of watching a mod author disappear in the middle of the night, leaving his paid script unsupported and his customers clamoring for support. (I know that will strike a chord with you. Whatever became of that train wreck, did it remain abandoned? I was so happy I had decided to use the competitor's offering instead.)

Which one? lol. Both NuWiki and GARS are abandoned. Though Vaultwiki filled the gap NuWiki left, to accommodate for the need of a forum integrated, and easy to use wiki(with advanced bbcode editor). Thats actually a good example: IPS does not have such addon, nor offers such functionality. I asked, but the only wiki functionality is mediawiki and that just doesn't come close.

When someone would ask how to accomplish something at the vB.com site, one of the support staff would generally respond by suggesting the person try at vB.org for a mod. And we all know the flip-side of that coin well, don't we? Because when you had a problem with a forum function, the first question was to ask if the board had been modified. And then it would be something like, "Sorry, we don't support modified boards."

That is solved by turning the addons of and seeing if the problem still exists. If not, then find the problematic addon. If yes, then vb will help.

Here, if enough people show interest in a new function, a few days later one of the IPS devs will submit a blog post to announce the function is being tested for a later release. Invision listens to its customers, quite the opposite of what you are used to seeing.

Yes, this is certainly a big plus that IPS has and is also a reason for me and many other vb admins to keep a close eye on IPS.

When there is no need for SEO add-ons, why bother writing mods for it?

I disagree with you on this. There is always a need for mods, because boards will have specific needs and there is a limit to what IPS can whip up (though IPS sets the standard quite high in this respect). I think the lack of mods for IPS has more to do with the plugin system being new, than a low demand. It's something that has to develop and expand now. And also something that is looked at by potential new customers. I've seen vb admins trying out IPS and come back to vb because of this. And I see there are a lot of admins with a foot in both waters ATM.

[bfarber]

Which one? lol. Both NuWiki and GARS are abandoned. Though Vaultwiki filled the gap NuWiki left, to accommodate for the need of a forum integrated, and easy to use wiki(with advanced bbcode editor). Thats actually a good example: IPS does not have such addon, nor offers such functionality. I asked, but the only wiki functionality is mediawiki and that just doesn't come close.

Actually, IP.Content has basic wiki functionality built into it, so one could argue - no, you don't need a mod for that. :whistle:

(Basically, you can create databases that users can edit any entry, such as in our resources area: http://community.invisionpower.com/resources/articles.html . Setting aside some small functionality that may or may not make it into newer versions (i.e. public side review of revisions), you get the underpinnings of a wiki with a few clicks in the ACP).

[Collin1000]

I just want to point out to the OP that a bunch of mod authors and other users are telling how well we are supported here, but he keeps telling us we "aren't" ...If you aren't part of the community, you don't experience it. Either take our word for it or don't, but stop trying to "prove us wrong"

[bfarber]

As others have said, we have a private forum that anyone who has contributed to our resources area can access. We regularly take in feedback from our resource authors and try to incorporate their feedback as best as possible.

While the way our resources area may not work exactly the way you are accustomed to, please don't take that as meaning it's "worse". :) We are focusing on what our community is asking for, and as such our resources community may move in different directions than elsewhere. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing.

[rastaX]

Actually, IPB went and hired some of the best 3rd party modders early on. Smart move, IMO. (take a bow, bfarber)

This didn't simply add functionality to the software, but it brought a whole new mindset to the company. IPB customers probably help shape the software far more than most. The background modders bring is trying to figure out what people will want the software to do that it doesn't do out of the box. Intuitive design. IPB can has it............

[bfarber]

Thank you for the ego boost. I shall promptly point Charles to this topic as he just LOVES it when I receive compliments. :D

[Abomination]

I know you :)

Yes, thats why I aks about quality control. An addon community is great, but without quality control it causes havoc. I'm currently having the addons I use checked for problems and fixed.

How much QC does vborg do? :whistle:

[Collin1000]

It isnt IPS's job to patrol "quality control" really.

[Alfa1]

With this thread I only meant to point out the improvements that where possible. My motivation is that I would love to see IPB get such an active addon community as vbulletin has/had. None of what I stated was meant as criticism. Though reading my posts again, I do see how they come across negatively, while this was not intended as such.

The creation of the marketplace and the upcoming app store surely will stimulate 3rd party development.

Its refreshing to see how well IPS listens to its customers and keeps improving things.

I just want to point out to the OP that a bunch of mod authors and other users are telling how well we are supported here, but he keeps telling us we "aren't" ...If you aren't part of the community, you don't experience it. Either take our word for it or don't, but stop trying to "prove us wrong"

I do not want to argue, prove you wrong or even criticize. Im not saying mod authors are in any way upsupported or not treated well. The contrary is very obvious.
As a big board owner trapped on vbulletin, I see loads of positive things going on here and only want to add suggestions for further improvements. I'm happy to see they are being implemented.

As others have said, we have a private forum that anyone who has contributed to our resources area can access. We regularly take in feedback from our resource authors and try to incorporate their feedback as best as possible.

While the way our resources area may not work exactly the way you are accustomed to, please don't take that as meaning it's "worse". :) We are focusing on what our community is asking for, and as such our resources community may move in different directions than elsewhere. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing.

I think that is a superior approach that others can learn from. Its much better than ignoring 3rd party coders like vbulletin does.

Actually, IPB went and hired some of the best 3rd party modders early on. Smart move, IMO. (take a bow, bfarber)

This didn't simply add functionality to the software, but it brought a whole new mindset to the company. IPB customers probably help shape the software far more than most. The background modders bring is trying to figure out what people will want the software to do that it doesn't do out of the box. Intuitive design. IPB can has it............

Other software companies should take example of that.

I know you :)

How much QC does vborg do? :whistle:

vb.org does no QC at all and more than a few addons are crapware or worse. That's exactly why I ask. Not because I see any QC issues here, but because I encounter so many code quality issues on vbulletin.org

It isnt IPS's job to patrol "quality control" really.

Its up to IPS if they do or do not want to add such service. Its no obligation to do so, but adding a quality control service for (selected) addons is a great benefit.

I have encountered so many issues with badly written addons (for vbulletin). Like bfarber pointed out above it is a great advantage of IPS that many addons here are official IPS addons, meaning supported and quality coded. I think this is something that really should not be underestimated.

This same advantage can be added to the 3rd party addon community, by offering a quality check for 3rd party addons.

I wonder if IPS is considering to add a coder rating/review system? Such system would allow clients/coders to leave their rating of the other. Similar to what ebay/scriptlance do. This would make it easy to hire coders/designers with a good reputation and for coders it would be easier to evaluate clients.