IPB: Reply vs Add Reply - possible (?) or should be possible

[srp]

Note: Adding to Feedback section per discussion with support

Hello,

As I continue to play with IPB and how its setup, i came across another question.


Say, there is a forum setup, which allows Members to reply to. These members CAN post BBCode, but NOT HTML.

Moderator for the same forum CAN post HTML. A Mod comes and creates a topic, with HTML code inside (say a flash chart). Until this points all is well.

The chart shows fine, because MOD has the right to post HTML.

BUT the issue comes after this point.

When a MEMBER comes and clicks REPLY (not add reply) to directly reply to the MOD's post, MOD's original post gets quoted. (Recall that this post has HTML) Since the MEMBER does NOT have right to post HTML, the chart which supposed to show will NOT show, rather the HTML tags will come up.

Obviously, this is NOT intended.

I guess there is only one solution to this (maybe its already possible to implement it; but I couldn't see anything in settings):

* There should be a setting for the forum (or at the time of topic creation) that MOD should be able to choose to DISABLE a DIRECT REPLY (Which is currently simply called "Reply") to his/her post; this will prohibit the MEMBER from quoting the post. OR, there could be a setting in the forum (admin side) to enable/disable a DIRECTLY REPLY to the 1st post of the forum.


As I mentioned, maybe its already possible to accomplish this. If there is a way, would be glad if you could help me. If not, could you add this as a feature request? (There are html tables, flash charts embedded with <object> tags, etc.)


Looking forward to your response.

Regards,

SG

[bfarber]

While I can see this as a valid issue, it's also relatively complicated to work out a proper solution given how the system works.

[3DKiwi]

I think what many of us have done is change how reply works. Why IPS makes the reply button a "Quote Reply" makes no sense to me as in most cases members replying don' need to quote the previous post. If they do need to quote then they can manually copy text and use the quote tags.

Couple of things I have done at my site:

1. Added a fast reply button which all it does is scroll the page to the bottom so that the Fast reply box is visible
2. Modify the Quote Reply button and code so that it becomes a regular reply button. Myself and others have posted how to do this in the past.

3DKiwi

[Brett B]

I think what many of us have done is change how reply works. Why IPS makes the reply button a "Quote Reply" makes no sense to me as in most cases members replying don' need to quote the previous post. If they do need to quote then they can manually copy text and use the quote tags.

I wholeheartedly disagree. If a person wants to reply without quoting a particular post, he or she can use the fast reply or click add reply. Otherwise, you create confusion.

[bfarber]

I agree. I have no interest in removing the quote feature in lieu of requiring members to copy/paste. That's a big step backwards imo.

[3DKiwi]

Brett - When I clicked on the topic title for this thread my browser scrolled to your post since it was the first unread post. That meant I could not see the "Add Reply" button and I could not see the "Fast Reply" box since Bradon's reply was below yours. Sure I know that I can scroll down the page and use either but casual members at my site aren't so familiar and in many case use the "Quote Reply" button to add a reply. All this does is make the thread occupy more vertical space than it really needs to.

Brandon - All you need to do is add in a Normal Reply button and maybe a Fast Reply button. That's what I have done as per the screen shot. Doing this had an immediate impact upon the number of quote replies.

3DKiwi

[Brandon D]

I prefer the way IPB handles it now. You've got the big "Add Reply" button at the top and bottom of each topic page that allows you to reply to the topic -- makes sense. You then have a small "Reply" button under each post in the topic that allows you to reply to that post, quoting it -- makes sense. You start adding that many reply buttons and it just over complicates things.

[3DKiwi]

Maybe. All I know is the way I have it set up is that it reduces the number of quoted replies and this greatly reduces the length of pages which in turns makes them easier to read.

So Brandon D or Brandon F, do either of you run a forum? Your opinion might be different if you ran a forum for the average user where some members were constantly using the quote reply button to do normal replies.

3DKiwi

[bfarber]

A lot of good debate here. While I have my own opinions (I prefer the layout in place presently) I'm curious what others think too.

3DKiwi mentioned he noticed an immediate impact on quoted replies. Is it safe to assume you mean that you started receiving less posts that are quoted but shouldn't have been, (theoretically) because users see the other reply options more visibly?

Has anyone else experimented changing reply options around at all?

[3DKiwi]

Is it safe to assume you mean that you started receiving less posts that are quoted but shouldn't have been, (theoretically) because users see the other reply options more visibly?

That's correct. Consider a reasonably active thread that has received a few replies since your last visit. The browser scrolls to the first unread reply. You won't see the "Add Reply" button at the top or the bottom in most cases nor see the Fast Reply button. Members want to reply and just click the button that says "Reply" on it. The fact that it has a little quote icon and plus symbol is probably overlooked or they don't know what they mean. Bingo - a quoted reply.

If you don't want to add extra button in I would at the very least suggest that by the Reply Button say "Quote Reply". This at least makes it clearer what the button does. That's what I have done plus add the other buttons as shown above. I note that in VB4 their Quote Reply button attached to every post like our Reply Button says "Reply With Quote".

3DKiwi

[Brandon D]

I've managed large forums, yes. My disagreement is with adding topic buttons underneath posts. If you look at the large buttons at the top and bottom of a topic page you can tell they act on the topic. Watch this Topic. Add Reply to this Topic. If you look at the smaller buttons under each post you can tell they act on the post itself. Aside from being under every post, you can Report the post, Reply to the post (quoting it), and MultiQuote the post. A reply to this topic button does not belong with those buttons under every post.

[.Ian]

Personally I am used to reply being simply reply, without the quoting.

However I would prefer to see the following buttons...

Reply / Quote / Quick Reply / Quick Quote

The 'Quick Quote' would allow someone to quickly quote a post in the quick reply box.

it would also save a load of quoted posts when it is not required.

[Brett B]

I've managed large forums, yes. My disagreement is with adding topic buttons underneath posts. If you look at the large buttons at the top and bottom of a topic page you can tell they act on the topic. Watch this Topic. Add Reply to this Topic. If you look at the smaller buttons under each post you can tell they act on the post itself. Aside from being under every post, you can Report the post, Reply to the post (quoting it), and MultiQuote the post. A reply to this topic button does not belong with those buttons under every post.

Good point -- it would break the hierarchy, so to speak.

3DKiwi, some skinners change the text of the button on their skins from Reply to Quote. In that case, it's blatantly obvious that clicking the button would quote the connected post. Maybe you should try that?

[3DKiwi]

Good point -- it would break the hierarchy, so to speak.

3DKiwi, some skinners change the text of the button on their skins from Reply to Quote. In that case, it's blatantly obvious that clicking the button would quote the connected post. Maybe you should try that?

Already done that. I don't have any problems (now) after editing the skins and adding in a normal reply button, fast reply button and changing the text on the quote reply button.

3DKiwi

[Luke]

Add 4 reply buttons per post is stupid. Having the reply button on each post is not only for convenience, but for threaded mode. Without it every post would go under the first one. It's good practice to use the "Reply" button for this reason. The "Add Reply" button breaks proper threading and I would consider removing it, but the "Fast Reply" does the same thing.

One thing to consider -

Change "MultiQuote" to "Quote" and have "Reply" behave the same way as "Add Reply" in that it only adds quotes if 1 or more "Quote"'s are selected. Then the difference between "Reply" and "Add Reply" would be that "Reply" preserves threading and "Add Reply" does not - Every "Quote" selected gets added to the post. Then if you hit "Add Reply" use the first quoted post to attempt to preserve threading. To top it off if you hit "Quote" and activate the Fast Reply, it adds all the quotes into the box and works like "Add Reply" in that it uses the first quoted post to preserve threading. This, of cource, would all be if javascript is enabled. If disabled the "Quote" button works just like the current "Reply" button.

When I say "preserve threading" I mean that when you click "Reply" your post gets put under that persons post in threading mode. The "Add Reply" button simply files your reply under the first post.

Hopefully all that made sense.

[.Ian]

I would suggest that very few people use threaded mode - why keep it even?

The issue here (as far as I can tell) is that too many people are clicking 'reply' and quoting posts when they have no need to - it is a pain to have to delete quoted text - my users have quite correctly asked 'Why does it not say quote if that is what the reply button does? They also assume that 'reply' will take them to the quick reply box - but it doesn't.

I do not think it is stupid to have four options - let the admin decided as to what he wants displayed?

Calling 'multiquote' simply 'quote' is daft as it does not tell the user that he can multi-quote - mind you there is also nothing to tell him to then click 'add reply' either - so this feature is rarely used (except by those in the know).

'Quick Quote' would enable a single post to be quickly quoted in the quick reply box.

'Quick Reply' on the post would drop the user directly to the quick reply box.

Don't forget to the majority of users it is only adding an extra two buttons - is it not more important to give ease of use to members over and above anything else? If they cannot easily use a forum, they will go elsewhere. 'Quick Reply' or 'Fast Reply' (they appear to be called different things) helps greatly - but on pages with a higher number of posts it is not so easy to jump to it and use it.

I am not bothered about keeping the threaded view correct (sorry) - but I do want people to quote only when they wish to quote and to be able to multi-quote easily in the same way.

[.Ian]

http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/288669-turn-off-autmatic-quote

also contains some code on possible solutions.

[.Ian]

Already done that. I don't have any problems (now) after editing the skins and adding in a normal reply button, fast reply button and changing the text on the quote reply button.

3DKiwi

How did you add the quick reply button - what was the code?

Thanks.

[Luke]

Quite frankly I don't think you quite understand that adding more is actually more confusing than helpful. It isn't obvious that "Reply" quotes the post unless you are used to the way it works. Making "MultiQuote" work in conjunction with the "Reply" button (like it does for "Add Reply") from where I'm sitting seems to solve the problem you are describing, but it keeps threading intact. And threading is not useless becaue it gives you a hierarchy of a conversation, which can be extremly helpful. Would you like to use an operating systems with no folders? That's how a topic would be without threading. The nice thing about IPB is that it preserves threading, even for those who do not use it like yourself. Problem is "Add Reply" and "Fast Reply" break this, which it would be nice if steps were taken to rectify that.

[.Ian]

Where does the word 'reply', imply 'quote'.

Quick reply box (fast reply) does not auto quote, so why should the main reply box having clicked reply.

You know that reply does, but I question whether users do.

All the majority of users wish to do is to type a quick reply.

The easier that is made the higher the number of posts - loading an extra page every time someone clicks on reply just adds an extra load to the site and is pointless for the majority of users.

[Luke]

Where does the word 'reply', imply 'quote'.

Quick reply box (fast reply) does not auto quote, so why should the main reply box having clicked reply.

You know that reply does, but I question whether users do.

All the majority of users wish to do is to type a quick reply.

The easier that is made the higher the number of posts - loading an extra page every time someone clicks on reply just adds an extra load to the site and is pointless for the majority of users.

I think you missed what I said - The button "Reply" DOES NOT imply that it quotes. Which is why I said it SHOULD NOT quote at all by itself and function exactly like the "Add Reply" button. If a MultiQuote is selected, then it should use those quotes like the "Add Reply" does. The difference between "Add Reply" and "Reply" would be that "Reply" preserves threading whereas Add Reply does not (Although I suggested for it to try based on what was quoted). What I'm suggesting solves your problem but does it with two buttons. There's really no reason to dismiss it.

[Brandon D]

Fast reply is a topic action, like I mentioned in my last post. It won't quote a post because there's only one fast reply at the bottom of the topic and it's not related to any given post.

Reply will quote the post because it is associated with that post. It's under the post with every other button that acts on that post. It's under every post. When you reply to an email, it's quoted. When you reply to a post, it's quoted. If you click that button you are not replying to the topic -- you are replying to the post.

If you guys want to add 5 different reply buttons under every post then by all means edit your templates, but I think that just adds unnecessary complications.

[.Ian]

When you reply to an email, it's quoted. When you reply to a post, it's quoted. If you click that button you are not replying to the topic -- you are replying to the post.

Not sure what an email has to do this.

Not sure why you think a page should have multiple posts all quoting various other posts LOL

[Brandon D]

Not sure what an email has to do this.

Where does the word 'reply', imply 'quote'.

I was answering your question above. If you reply to an email, the original email is typically quoted in your reply. Likewise, if you use a post's reply button, the post will be quoted in your reply. That's one reason why 'reply' generally implies 'quote', especially when you use a button specifically geared towards a single object -- like an email, or a post in this case.

Not sure why you think a page should have multiple posts all quoting various other posts LOL

Isn't this the whole point? Isn't this what you just did? Isn't this what I'm doing now? In most cases, a topic is not a linear strand of posts replying to the original author's post. They generally contain various tangents where people address the points made in an individual post, like you did to mine and I'm doing to yours now.

It just doesn't make sense to add 20 reply to topic buttons per topic page, especially when you add them next to post-centric buttons that all act on the post above it.

[.Ian]

This is true on a 'support' based forum - but not every forum is the same.

Not all forums are full of intellectual questions - some are rambling chats.

Good forum software has to cater for all situations.

You can't assume that every situation is the same.