"Approved" license resellers idea

[Wolfie]

I've been thinking about this for a short while based on seeing a few people who want to know about being able to sell one or more licenses that they hold but not all of them and I think I have an idea that could work and at the same time, would keep the amount of hassle to a minimum for IPS staff, with the exception of moving a license from one account to another. But other than that, disputes or claims of being ripped off (or whatever else) could potentially be eliminated.

The idea would be to have a resource site that would be run by known and trusted IPS products (active) license holders. I was thinking that perhaps some of the IPS Resources group members could be in charge of it, as an idea. The purpose of the site would be simple too. Person who wishes to sell a license that they hold would submit a 'ticket', where as they include details of the license and what they want as a price for it. Things such as the product type, type of license (if it's IP.Board), date purchased and license number would be submitted by the owner of the license, so that there is enough information to validate that the owner is indeed trying to sell their license.

In order to reduce work (long term at least) for IPS staff, an interactive module could be created that would let the 'resellers' submit the information, perhaps automatically, to validate the information provided. If all the information checks out (including a correct email address), then the license would get transferred out of the owners access and would become the indirect property of the resellers. Of course, at any time before the completion of a sales transaction and transfer of the license to a new owner, the old owner could cancel (ie get their license back). But once the transaction is complete, ie, information sent from reseller to IPS and license transferred to the new owner, then the sale would be final.

If a module were written to make it more automated for the resellers to 'grab licenses', then a verification email could be sent out to the owner where they would need to click a link to release the license to the resellers. This would further decrease any possibility of fraud/theft.


This could potentially work. With the owner releasing their hold on the license (especially via a verification link) to the resellers, the license would be in a holding area for the new potential owner. When someone makes a purchase and the transaction is completed, the resellers would then transfer the license to the new owner and 'forward' the payment to the original owner. In the event that PayPal is used and someone tries to take back a payment, it wouldn't be at all hard for the resellers to provide proof of the goods being delivered per the agreement, thus the new buyer being unable to steal the license. But in the event it still happens, then the resellers could have the unique ability to pull back a license, with the requirement that (via automated process) information about the canceled payment be submitted.

As can be seen, there would be safeguards in place to prevent fraud as much as possible, with most of it possible to be automated, so that IPS staff can work on other more important things, while owners of IPS product licenses could still sell off individual products that they have aquired.

Another thought, as part of this, and to prevent abuse and also to help cover costs, is to have a transaction fee included in the price. The original owner would see the final results before submitted their license for sale, with the transaction fee being explained to them. The fee would help cover cost of the website and also, part of it cold go to the individual reseller(s) who helped to complete the transaction (although this concept is optional). If there is a payment incentive for individual resellers, they would be a percentage based on amount of participation (from aquiring the license, to making sure the license is posted for sale, accepting/validating the payment and also transferring the license to the new owner). As said though, that would be optional, but could help reimburse some for time spent on helping to run/maintain the resource.


Obviously, none of this can work without both IPS agreeing to such a setup (manual or automatic) and without known and trusted volunteers. However, I'm sure that IPS wouldn't have an issue with it provided that it would allow its customers to sell/buy used licenses with very little trouble (complaints/fraud attempts they have to deal with) and that it provides protection for its customers at the same time. Of course, I could be wrong on that, but it is to my undertanding that one of the reasons that transferring of licenses has become so restricted is to prevent problems that they were encountering on a frequent basis and to provide protection for its customers from being ripped off.

I know that there will always be someone who will try to find a way to cheat the system and that no plan is "perfect", however I believe that if IPS is agreeable to such an idea and if there are trusted people in charge of it, then it could provide an outlet for those who have extra licenses they wish to unload as well as allowing those in search of a reduced price license (but not a whole package). I'm not offering to create or run such a resource, only offering up the idea.

Comments welcome!

to IPS: if this is something you would not agree to (flat out, no way, no how), then please feel free to mention so and I'll fully understand if you wish to close this topic to prevent someone from trying to debate the matter. Otherwise, if it's something that could be considered (which is NOT a promise of it being approved), then please bring up any concerns with the idea that have not yet been discussed. Thank you in advance for your consideration on this concept.

[Ryan H.]

I'm not IPS, but I can't see this happening. They want to encourage people to buy their licenses directly, not from existing or former customers. Transferring licenses is of no benefit to them at all.

[RobertMidd]

[quote name='No1 1000' date='14 June 2009 - 05:02 PM' timestamp='1244995369' post='1809959']
Transferring licenses is of no benefit to them at all.


It is, if they charge for a transfer of license (say $15-$20).

But like you, I can't see it happening either.

[Ryan H.]

[quote name='RobertMidd' date='14 June 2009 - 12:46 PM' timestamp='1244998000' post='1809968']
It is, if they charge for a transfer of license (say $15-$20).

But like you, I can't see it happening either.

If they charge for people to do it they'll only go behind their backs like they do already--and either way, $15 or $20 is hardly comparable to $150.

[Mark H.]

IPS has already stated, numerous times, that license transfers have been nothing but a headache for them.

They really can't charge enough to MAKE it worth their while, either, and I can see why. If you look at all the posts made about it, the problem with something like this becomes pretty clear.

It might be a good idea, but it's something in which I highly doubt IPS would involve themselves.

[Wolfie]

[quote name='No1 1000' date='14 June 2009 - 12:02 PM' timestamp='1244995369' post='1809959']
I'm not IPS, but I can't see this happening. They want to encourage people to buy their licenses directly, not from existing or former customers. Transferring licenses is of no benefit to them at all.

If someone were to buy a used blog license (as an example), then to renew it would still bring in an income for IPS. If someone wanted to get a blog license but didn't feel it worth it to pay the initial price of purchase ($50 I believe), then they could get a used one, then just have to pay $20 (I think that's the going renewal rate) for a 6 month period of support/downloads. Where as that person may not have gotten a license at all and the original holder wouldn't have renewed, IPS is now making income on an existing license.


[quote name='RainbowViper' date='14 June 2009 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1244998406' post='1809974']
IPS has already stated, numerous times, that license transfers have been nothing but a headache for them.

They really can't charge enough to MAKE it worth their while, either, and I can see why. If you look at all the posts made about it, the problem with something like this becomes pretty clear.

It might be a good idea, but it's something in which I highly doubt IPS would involve themselves.

The whole idea would be to make it so that IPS would have little involvement, other than the actual transfer of the license. If it's limited to doing it to/from a reliable reseller, then they'd know that there should be very few (if any) problems.

As for an IPS fee to do the transfer, $15-$20 is too much, at least when it comes to blog or older yearly licenses. If a fee were to be charged for the service, then it should be a percentage of the sale, like 10%. If the sale is for $10 (example, expired blog license), then they get $1 (yeah, small amount). But if it's for a perpetual license, the price may be $150, then IPS would make $15 for the license and then $30 for support if the person ever buys it. Could even have a minimum fee (say $5), so that there is some incentive for doing the transfer.

Another idea I had includes a predetermined pricing, with the option to "under sell" the normal pricing. Basically, if someone purchased the blog (just continuing to use it as an example), then say half a year later decided that they don't want it anymore, then it could go for $25 (or less), so that the original owner won't make a 'profit' from the sale, but at the same time, with a $5 fee attached, could give the buyer a reason to consider purchasing a new blog license instead of a used one. At the same time though, if the blog has 1 month left on it, they might pay only $5 ($10 with a $5 fee attached), and they might only need that one month to download the software and then only have to pay $20 when they wish to renew the license.


One idea to keep in mind, aside from trying to make this as hassle free for IPS as possible, is that it would help to bring in new customers, even if on used licenses. Someone who buys a used Lifetime license, for example, might not seem like an investment for IPS at first. But if that new customer decides to purchase an addon (gallery or blog or download), then IPS just made a sale that they wouldn't have made before.


I appreciate the feedback on this idea because if it's at all possible, then it's necessary for any and all problems to be sorted out before it's even attempted. Also if there's ANY chance of IPS going along with it, I know it'd require that they deal with as little hassle as possible (if any at all). I've been using IP.Board for years and despite how other board software (like vb) may have certain mods made for it that IPB doesn't get, I stick with what I know is a solid product. Obviously I want IPS to remain in business, so the idea isn't to try to reduce their income, but to make it better so that the customer base has another door to enter through, which in turn helps their income.

:)

[Mat Barrie]

You cover what happens if the buyer fraudulently charges back the transaction... but what happens if the SELLER does? Hmm?

[Wolfie]

How would the seller charge back the transaction? All that would need to be done is to undo the charge/payment, and that'd cover it. Not make a new payment.

[Mark H.]

True, a "Seller" cannot do a chargeback since they *received* the money.

But there's nothing to prevent the Seller from selling the license numerous times, and absconding with the money they got before it was noticed.

IPS has said this was done in the past.

Think about it...... ;)

[Wolfie]

That wouldn't be possible in this arrangement. Review the first post again. The individual seller would forfeit their license to the reseller group. Up until the license is sold, they can have it transferred back to them. The resellers would be a 3rd party group that would have the license, collect the money and complete the transfer of the license to the new owner. This special group of resellers could also have the authority to reverse a transfer, so if the buyer reverses the charge (ie, tries to steal a license), they would lose the license, making it pointless to try. If that happens and the resellers have already credited the original sellers account, that seller could just "refund" the charge so that the resellers aren't ripped off either.

If the seller is given the option to sell the license for the price of their choosing, then there would simply be a list of available licenses and their asking price, and someone could come along and just click to purchase a license. What they are looking for could also be sorted/filtered by product (of course), time left on the license and (if it's IP.Board) type of license.

The asking price would of course affect how quickly that particular license would sell. If it's set to a conforming standard, where the price is predetermined (except for LIFETIME and Perpetual licenses), based on the age of the license and when its support will end, then that could help as well, as it'd be a set price and in some ways would be a "first come, first sold" basis.

I know that the idea as a whole is a long shot. Because for there to be any chance that IPS would even consider it, it'd have to be designed to give them extremely few problems (if ANY) to deal with because of it. But even then, it would depend on how much it would benefit the company. But one thing at a time. The more support this idea gets and the more any potential problems are discussed and solutions are provided for, the better chance we have of this happening.

Then as people buy used licenses and then spend money to renew those licenses, IPS starts getting revenue on old licenses where they may not have gotten anything at all without it. I would actually predict that at first it may become busy, as old licenses get tossed on there to sell them off and get bought by members wanting the products, but the supply would die down and there would be an occasional license popping up to be bought. IPS would have more active licenses, which in turn means more income for them and that would be better for everyone, especially us consumers, as the company would have means to do more (more resources such as employees for example).

:)

[Wolf]

I can't really see a benefit to the consumer for this. Why would I buy from a reseller, with possible hassle and inflated prices, when I can buy directly from IPS and know my license is good, coming from the source?

[Mat Barrie]

[quote name='.Wolfie' date='20 June 2009 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1245484457' post='1811849']
How would the seller charge back the transaction? All that would need to be done is to undo the charge/payment, and that'd cover it. Not make a new payment.


You think I'm talking about the transaction between the licensee and the purchaser? I'm referring to the seller charging back their payment to IPS after "selling" the license - first thing IPS does if that happens is void the license and customer portal access. Ouch! New buyer now has no forum, and no money.

Look, let's be honest, digital products are a pain in the ass to handle resale of. Most companies, IPS included, simply opt to not support it at all - why is it that people don't understand this? They've given you an option already - hand over the client area details to the buyer. Some companies would try to forbid even that!

[Malefickus]

[quote name='Mat (Aesir Tech)' date='23 June 2009 - 02:40 AM' timestamp='1245746404' post='1812835']
You think I'm talking about the transaction between the licensee and the purchaser? I'm referring to the seller charging back their payment to IPS after "selling" the license - first thing IPS does if that happens is void the license and customer portal access. Ouch! New buyer now has no forum, and no money.

Look, let's be honest, digital products are a pain in the ass to handle resale of. Most companies, IPS included, simply opt to not support it at all - why is it that people don't understand this? They've given you an option already - hand over the client area details to the buyer. Some companies would try to forbid even that!


I think his dilemma here is if he is only trying to sell a portion of the licenses he owns. For example, I own a board, gallery, and blog license, buy no longer use the blog one. It wouldn't be possible to just sell the blog one, I'd have to sell everything in one go if I sold anything.

[Wolfie]

[quote name='Wolf' date='22 June 2009 - 11:40 PM' timestamp='1245728458' post='1812778']
I can't really see a benefit to the consumer for this. Why would I buy from a reseller, with possible hassle and inflated prices, when I can buy directly from IPS and know my license is good, coming from the source?

The reseller would be a group similar to the IPS Resources group, where it would be a group of trusted people to run and maintain the site and activities. From the original license holders perspective, they could sell one or more of their licenses while retaining their other licenses (if any) and know that when payment is made and the transaction is completed, if the buyer tries to reverse the payment, then the license will be recovered. The buyer would know that they will get the license and won't have to deal with the hassle of someone just trying to take their money without releasing the product.

Also, the idea isn't to replace IPS selling licenses. If you figure out that it'd be cheaper (percentage wise) to purchase a brand new license then obviously you wouldn't buy it. So if the seller wants to sell the license off, they'd want to make sure the price is reasonable given how much life it has left.

Also, unlike a physical product, the licenses are still good over time. If you purchase a used IP.Board license that has expired and you paid $30 for it, then for $25 more you can get 6 months of support for it. You just got a IP.Board license for $55 and it's just as good as a new license, except that it's half a year of downloads and support instead of a full year.

At first that may sound like a bad idea from the viewpoint of IPS but in reality it's not. After the boom of selling used licenses, things would slow down to a trickle as the used licenses are of limited supply. Those licenses that have expired and are no longer a source of income from IPS are suddenly given a new life and can now expect to get $25/6months from a whole group of new people where as they wouldn't be getting that. Yes, there are some who would have bought a brand new license for the $129 (sale) or full price, but there are also a number of people who couldn't or wouldn't spend that much up front, but suddenly can still get the license.



[quote name='Mat (Aesir Tech)' date='23 June 2009 - 04:40 AM' timestamp='1245746404' post='1812835']
You think I'm talking about the transaction between the licensee and the purchaser? I'm referring to the seller charging back their payment to IPS after "selling" the license - first thing IPS does if that happens is void the license and customer portal access. Ouch! New buyer now has no forum, and no money.

There can be restrictions on what can and cannot be sold. Cannot be sold would include expired or almost expired IP.Board licenses which are NOT renewable. Could also forbid licenses that are under 3 months of age or so. After all, it'd be rather suspicious if someone is selling a license that isn't even a week old. If they don't want the license they could contact IPS, explain the situation and possibly get a refund (POSSIBLY that is, I can only speculate that there would be some cases where it might happen).

[Yukiko]

i cant see this happening either though this would cause too much scams that are already floating around :)