Shipping IPB with more skin themes?

[ianhoyle]

I've been running my board now for a couple of years with a custom skin. This includes not only the main board, but also the blogging module. This has been great from a user feedback point of view - they love it - but with each and every major & minor release of the software I have to check that the skin I have works, possibly (probably) get some changes done and then pay $$$. Over time this is starting to add up so I'm questioning the value of having another skin done.

It would be really useful if IPB & associated modules (eg blog, gallery etc) came with more than just the blue standard skin. Perhaps a red, orange, green etc skin could be shipped so that this + an uploaded banner might get you 80-90% of the way to the look/feel desired for the board without going to the expense of paying for a complete custom skin. Thoughts? :ermm:

Another thing troubled me over the weekend. The developer I'd been using for a couple of years for my existing skin has just decided to quit developing skins for IPB citing:

I asked: "what are the directions that disturb you, and why does that make support more expensive?"

Mostly it's the unnecessary use of AJAX for cool factor features and other bloat.

It also stems from the idea that 2.2 still contains major bugs that have been in the software since the first beta release, and instead of fixing them and making the base software more stable they've just glued new unneeded features on top of unstable code, making it even more-so unstable.

Additionally, Ajax features for the sake of Ajax complicates skinning and modding a great deal, when IPB added the first AJAX features to version 2.1, I was scared and for good reason, it added an additional 15 templates overall and over 30 images and 2.2 does this again but on a much large scale.

And lastly the companies absolute refusal to support skinners and modders by releasing proper docs and changelogs, and also purposefully creating changes to templates that completely disable custom skins is ridiculous

So, while I applaud IPB for the job done on the software (and I don't know that I agree with the sentiments above regarding the use of AJAX and the bug count), has the continual feature/coolness creep of the software made it more and more costly to support skins?? What is the experience of others out there (perhaps skin developers themselves) - has the latest IPB directions driven up the prices you are charging for skins?

I will suss out the market to see what I might get another skin done for. It is just the cost creep & ongoing management that I am trying to get a handle on - will it be worth it in the long run?

Ian

[bfarber]

We do not "purposefully creating changes to templates that completely disable custom skins". I simply get the feeling the skinner is not comfortable with the use of AJAX (99% of which we have in javascript files and NOT in the skin templates) and as such doesn't wish to continue making skins. Nothing against them for that - it's there choice. However, we can't be expected NOT to add things into IPB at the expense of those that add ONTO IPB.

[Strange_Will]

I find it kind of stupid to call this unstable software, has your skinning friend worked on ANYTHING? Or does he draw everything and program everything with a fresh install of windows, paint, notepad and never does anything to ever cause his system to crash? :P

Not to mention I don't even want to think of how many times I've had to roll back code and sit for hours with PHPBB re-coding their junk OR MY FORUMS WOULDN'T WORK (actually in fact, I had to fix PHPBB out of the box). Something IPB has yet to do to me.

[ianhoyle]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

In preserving the anonymity of the skin developer I elected to reproduce all of his email to me to provide some context - he is clearly frustrated, so his broad spray at the bloat - perceived or real - of IPB was left in there for others to read. Note that I've essentially reproduced this post on IPSbeyond (since it sort of fell between the 2 boards) and this has already triggered some interesting debate on whether the increasing complexity of IPB is driving up the cost of skinning.

I feel the real cost of skins from the rewrites/updates necessary to keep current (IPB costs I am shielded from as a lifetime license holder :)), so there is an element of truth in the position taken by the developer.

Look at IPB as a microwave oven. These devices often have a feature list as long as your arm, but at the end of the day I only ever use 3 controls- high, defrost and vary the time. But, importantly, it also has to look ok and - from a usability point of view - function very well. IPB is a little like that - lots and lots of dials and knobs (for both the admin & the user), but at the end of the day the thing that users like is usability & aesthetics. AJAX IS a part of that, since performance at the fingertips is highly meaningful for the end user.

In an enterprise setting we sometimes go to great lengths to measure, sustain and improve the "end user experience". I see IPB delivers on that promise.

Ian

[bfarber]

I've replied on Beyond - really, for this discussion, that is probably the best place.